Finding Saint Francis

[TrueLight]

Check post above this one.

LOL. Now,now you two.

But Julia, I agree about experiencing first person.

I happen to be attracted to all three orders and I visited both the OCDS and the lay Dominicans. I will eventually visit the SFO in my area as well.

It can’t hurt.

 

[iloveangels]

LOL. Now,now you two.

But Julia, I agree about experiencing first person.

I happen to be attracted to all three orders and I visited both the OCDS and the lay Dominicans. I will eventually visit the SFO in my area as well.

It can’t hurt.

No problems TrueLight.

 

[TrueLight]

Are you looking at their Third order of Discalced Carmelites? I did at one time, it’s a very, to me, well-defined vocation to prayer. If you are called to prayer, I think it might be a very good fit.

I feel that I’m called to prayer and also evangelization – sharing my faith, not just by living it but by speaking to others – maybe one on one. Maybe youth ministry or women’s ministry. I’m not sure.

What I liked about the chapter meeting I went to was the format: We had:

Morning prayer
Teaching on St Therese (by a Carmelite priest)
½ hour contemplative prayer
The rosary
Mass
Lunch
Formation (I got to attend the “visitor’s” formation.
Evening prayer
Dismissal

Their meeting is 6 hours.

I was impressed by the fact that there was also formation for visitors where you basically get to learn a little about the order.

I will be going again.

 

[iloveangels]

I feel that I’m called to prayer and also evangelization – sharing my faith, not just by living it but by speaking to others – maybe one on one. Maybe youth ministry or women’s ministry. I’m not sure.

What I liked about the chapter meeting I went to was the format: We had:

Morning prayer
Teaching on St Therese (by a Carmelite priest)
½ hour contemplative prayer
The rosary
Mass
Lunch
Formation (I got to attend the “visitor’s” formation.
Evening prayer
Dismissal

Their meeting is 6 hours.

I was impressed by the fact that there was also formation for visitors where you basically get to learn a little about the order.

I will be going again.

Excellent, TrueLight!

 

[EvelynEVF]

Wow, what a great great post! Thanks so much. Are you all from the same parish? Do you or do some people have a personal spiritual director?

I doubt we’re from the same parish. I use a pseudonym and always alter identifying information

I have a spiritual director, possibly two, because his wife is also helpful.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Can you say more about this? About how you feel you changed in your own thinking and feeling, especially as contrasted to the prevailing culture? Or to how you were before?

Not quite addressed to me, but I will take a stab. I became a Catholic several years ago, after multiple years of attending Mass and being very assertive about getting my questions answered. I collected lots of information and went to daily Mass, too. But it wasn’t until the fourth anniversary of my conversion that I realized I finally thought like a Catholic. Up until that point, my automatic response or answer would be fundamentalist protestant, and I would have to mindfully go back and weed that out and learn what Catholics really believed. I did this pretty quickly, but I still had two minds and constantly had to be aware. Only after four years of daily Mass, weekly+ spiritual direction, etc, did I become instinctively Catholic. Cradle Catholics generally have no idea what I mean here, because you all have grown up with the mindset/worldview. I enjoy shocking my spiritual director, because a lot of what I used to believe never ever occurred to her as a possibility.

Being Franciscan is a lot like that. I learned much in initial formation. Beginning with Candidacy, I made the conscious decision, after much thought, to wear my Tau all the time, and mindfully attempt to act as a Franciscan should in every situation. After Profession, it became more instinctive. I remember one situation in particular when a person encouraged me to choose a particular path, which was not sinful, but was wordly. I knew immediately which way I would go instead, because really no other path was consistent with who I am now.

Clear as mud?

 

[TrueLight]

Not quite addressed to me, but I will take a stab. I became a Catholic several years ago, after multiple years of attending Mass and being very assertive about getting my questions answered. I collected lots of information and went to daily Mass, too. But it wasn’t until the fourth anniversary of my conversion that I realized I finally thought like a Catholic. Up until that point, my automatic response or answer would be fundamentalist protestant, and I would have to mindfully go back and weed that out and learn what Catholics really believed. I did this pretty quickly, but I still had two minds and constantly had to be aware. Only after four years of daily Mass, weekly+ spiritual direction, etc, did I become instinctively Catholic. Cradle Catholics generally have no idea what I mean here, because you all have grown up with the mindset/worldview. I enjoy shocking my spiritual director, because a lot of what I used to believe never ever occurred to her as a possibility.

Being Franciscan is a lot like that. I learned much in initial formation. Beginning with Candidacy, I made the conscious decision, after much thought, to wear my Tau all the time, and mindfully attempt to act as a Franciscan should in every situation. After
Profession, it became more instinctive. I remember one situation in particular when a person encouraged me to choose a particular path, which was not sinful, but was wordly. I knew immediately which way I would go instead, because really no other path was consistent with who I am now.

Clear as mud?

Hmm. Awesome.

 

[iloveangels]

Not quite addressed to me, but I will take a stab. I became a Catholic several years ago, after multiple years of attending Mass and being very assertive about getting my questions answered. I collected lots of information and went to daily Mass, too. But it wasn’t until the fourth anniversary of my conversion that I realized I finally thought like a Catholic. Up until that point, my automatic response or answer would be fundamentalist protestant, and I would have to mindfully go back and weed that out and learn what Catholics really believed. I did this pretty quickly, but I still had two minds and constantly had to be aware. Only after four years of daily Mass, weekly+ spiritual direction, etc, did I become instinctively Catholic. Cradle Catholics generally have no idea what I mean here, because you all have grown up with the mindset/worldview. I enjoy shocking my spiritual director, because a lot of what I used to believe never ever occurred to her as a possibility.

Being Franciscan is a lot like that. I learned much in initial formation. Beginning with Candidacy, I made the conscious decision, after much thought, to wear my Tau all the time, and mindfully attempt to act as a Franciscan should in every situation. After Profession, it became more instinctive. I remember one situation in particular when a person encouraged me to choose a particular path, which was not sinful, but was wordly. I knew immediately which way I would go instead, because really no other path was consistent with who I am now.

Clear as mud?

Yes, I’m also a convert who finally thinks like a catholic but it took me a long time. My grandfather was a protestant minister. In some ways it’s a very different world, and in some ways not different at all.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Being Franciscan is a lot like that. I learned much in initial formation. Beginning with Candidacy, I made the conscious decision, after much thought, to wear my Tau all the time, and mindfully attempt to act as a Franciscan should in every situation. After Profession, it became more instinctive. I remember one situation in particular when a person encouraged me to choose a particular path, which was not sinful, but was wordly. I knew immediately which way I would go instead, because really no other path was consistent with who I am now.

Clear as mud?

Another great post, thank you Evelyn! The part I bolded has always been my goal for myself. To get to that point of making that choice. It’s funny, I own a Tau cross right now, but I don’t want to wear it where people can see it, because whether in or out of any organized Franciscan group, I have not made that choice and don’t feel like I want people attributing characteristics to me I do not have yet.

This is such great witness, though, and as a convert, I know what you mean about becoming Catholic and becoming Catholic.

As for myself, I believe through this forum, if not this thread, I have been led to:

fmjccommunity.com/Documents/Inqryletter.pdf

Musta been Saint Anthony helping me find my lost path. I do love this thread, though, iloveangels is right about the great posts. I think we all need to be praying for Br JR right now, too. Hoping we’ll hear more from him soon. I never seem to get tired of hearing about the Franciscan spirit.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I feel that I’m called to prayer and also evangelization – sharing my faith, not just by living it but by speaking to others – maybe one on one. Maybe youth ministry or women’s ministry. I’m not sure.

What I liked about the chapter meeting I went to was the format: We had:

Morning prayer
Teaching on St Therese (by a Carmelite priest)
½ hour contemplative prayer
The rosary
Mass
Lunch
Formation (I got to attend the “visitor’s” formation.
Evening prayer
Dismissal

Their meeting is 6 hours.

I was impressed by the fact that there was also formation for visitors where you basically get to learn a little about the order.

I will be going again.

It’s so wonderful when you find the place that just, feels right, isn’t it? It’s such a simple knowing. I looked into them years ago when I first converted and was so strongly called to prayer. For me, it wasn’t quite the right fit, but it was still quite a powerful attraction.

 

[TrueLight]

It’s so wonderful when you find the place that just, feels right, isn’t it? It’s such a simple knowing. I looked into them years ago when I first converted and was so strongly called to prayer. For me, it wasn’t quite the right fit, but it was still quite a powerful attraction.

The meeting was awesome. However it was my first meeting and lunch was a sort of “christmas party” so I have to see how the second meeting goes. If I remember what I was told correctly, lunch is usually more on the quiet side.

As wonderful as it was, the one nagging feeling I had was, “What about preaching”?

Also, the friend who invited me said it was less social and more based on prayer. That confused me a little bit. So I asked questions like, do you all stay in touch outside of the monthly meetings? Do you do things together, like volunteer at soup kitchens or any other services.

I think I also need the “community” aspect. Of course I’m not referring to the community that religious have, but it would be good to have as much community as can be had in a secular environment. The person who was leading the visitor class did stress this was not a “social” environment. I do not see how one can meet together regularly and for their not to be social interaction. Maybe I didn’t understand. This is something I will be able to readily observe over time.

So you see there are a lot of things to discern.

 

[Marauder]

Truelight, that is one of the differences between that organization and SFO. SFO specifically recommends having actual social time at every meeting. Prayer, announcements, and ongoing formation are also supposed to happen at every meeting, but social time is not supposed to be forgotten. We did skip social time once last winter when a winter storm was bearing down on us, but we usually have some time for social interaction.

This allows for:

1. For some older members, this is the only time they get to interact with others.
2. For people to share experiences they are having in their everyday life to get advice on how to handle it in a Franciscan manner.
3. To greet visitors and answer any questions that people in formation may have that they might not want to ask the formation team.
4. People to discuss individual (non-fraternity wide) get-togethers/outreaches.
5. To just be social.

Of course there is always a balance act to make sure the social time doesn’t outweigh/overpower the other aspects of the fraternity meeting.

 

[iloveangels]

Truelight, that is one of the differences between that organization and SFO. SFO specifically recommends having actual social time at every meeting. Prayer, announcements, and ongoing formation are also supposed to happen at every meeting, but social time is not supposed to be forgotten. We did skip social time once last winter when a winter storm was bearing down on us, but we usually have some time for social interaction.

This allows for:

1. For some older members, this is the only time they get to interact with others.
2. For people to share experiences they are having in their everyday life to get advice on how to handle it in a Franciscan manner.
3. To greet visitors and answer any questions that people in formation may have that they might not want to ask the formation team.
4. People to discuss individual (non-fraternity wide) get-togethers/outreaches.
5. To just be social.

Of course there is always a balance act to make sure the social time doesn’t outweigh/overpower the other aspects of the fraternity meeting.

Yes, and the social time has a purpose in the charism. It’s not just to be useful or nice. We are supposed to be brothers and sisters to each other, and then brothers and sisters to the rest of the world. This is one feature that appears to apply across all three orders of the Franciscan family. I believe that this is why it’s always emphasized and groups are called “fraternities.”

 

[Julia_Mae]

The meeting was awesome. However it was my first meeting and lunch was a sort of “christmas party” so I have to see how the second meeting goes. If I remember what I was told correctly, lunch is usually more on the quiet side.

As wonderful as it was, the one nagging feeling I had was, “What about preaching”?

Also, the friend who invited me said it was less social and more based on prayer. That confused me a little bit. .

Maybe I’m confused. Who was this again, I thought it was Carmelites. Which I would expect to be very much about prayer. I would think Dominicans would be more about preaching. But what you were saying about soup kitchens and whatever sounds SFO.

LOL! Lotsa discernment in your future!

 

[iloveangels]

Maybe I’m confused. Who was this again, I thought it was Carmelites. Which I would expect to be very much about prayer. I would think Dominicans would be more about preaching. But what you were saying about soup kitchens and whatever sounds SFO.

LOL! Lotsa discernment in your future!

Yes, and I wouldn’t neglect third order-like structures of the congregations because they blend some of these things in appealing and needed ways. I’m thinking of things like the Franciscans of the Immaculate, who have a third order, and the Heralds of the Gospel who have Companions, a very young average age and are of Pontifical right.

The orders tend to align themselves with broad methods of living out the Gospels, by being “part of the flavor” of a much bigger “soup,” which is often misunderstood, whereas the congregations and institutes tend to focus more on apostolates. And you’re talking about apostolates, like preaching one-on-one and volunteering.

 

[iloveangels]

It takes all these things to serve the needs of the Church.

I watched the videos at the site for the Franciscan Missionaries of Christ Crucified last night. They’re an Association of the Faithful, working to become a Secular Institute, which is a recent form of life approved by the HOly See. BUT, they are no less Religious than any 90 year old Carthusian in a Monastery in France someplace. A lot, too much, is made of the legalities of all this. We are all part of the Church, the Body of Christ.

Thank you for the link to that community, Julia Mae. That’s not my group, but those videos are beautiful; the sincerity and goodness there are breathtaking. God must love them very much.

 

[Julia_Mae]

It takes all these things to serve the needs of the Church.

I watched the videos at the site for the Franciscan Missionaries of Christ Crucified last night. They’re an Association of the Faithful, working to become a Secular Institute, which is a recent form of life approved by the HOly See. BUT, they are no less Religious than any 90 year old Carthusian in a Monastery in France someplace. A lot, too much, is made of the legalities of all this. We are all part of the Church, the Body of Christ.

Thank you for the link to that community, Julia Mae. That’s not my group, but those videos are beautiful; the sincerity and goodness there are breathtaking. God must love them very much.

And you take vows. I like vows. And they are for the disabled and so, you can be anywhere, on your own, but in fraternity (no, srsly, can we find a non-gender specific word!?) - ahem - community, and I hope to hear from them very soon.

 

[iloveangels]

And you take vows. I like vows. And they are for the disabled and so, you can be anywhere, on your own, but in fraternity (no, srsly, can we find a non-gender specific word!?) - ahem - community, and I hope to hear from them very soon.

You don’t like the word fraternity, do you? :nope:

That one doesn’t bother me. All the crazy interpretations of the word “secular” are what get me. It appears to be one of those words like “nice” or “love” that can mean about 100 things, depending on context. Figuring out exactly what’s meant takes about an hour or conversation every time. Not hardly what it’s worth. Frankly, they need another word. JMHO.

[And yes, I know the word “secular” has a very precise technical meaning; it’s just that most people can’t figure it out and instead have one big cloud of “duh” going on, and when the name of the order is “Secular Franciscan Order,” it’s UH-OH time.]

 

[iloveangels]

Actually, here’s an odd thing and a bit of trivia. The way the Dominican and Franciscan families are set up, the primary contemplatives are in the 2nd orders, the women. But between the two families, the third orders are set up differently juridically, but one thing is similar: they have always been constructed and behaved rather more like the 1st order than the 2nd. There is no way for a robust third order version of the Poorclares or the Dominican nuns to take place because of the way this is set up. The Poorclares in some places do have associates, however, but that’s different.

In contrast, Benedictines are separated male and female by house for obvious reasons, and they’re all OSBs as far as I know. Oblates can be either men or women, no distinction. A man can even be an oblate at a monastery of women, and vice versa.

OCD Carmelites have almost the same arrangement, BTW, except they have a third order, the OCDS, and as far as I know the OCarms are similar in structure but parallel (an artifact of the fact that the OCDs are a reform of the OCarms.) The third order usually is looked after by the friars. The third order is not autonomous in this case either.

 

[iloveangels]

Most people don’t know their parish priest is probably secular and diocesan. They think all priests take vows of poverty too.

[Shhhh. Don’t tell the Ultratrads. They’ll freak out.]