Finding Trans-Intolerance

[deb1]

And because they are not Christian, according to your theory, “democracy will be impossible there.”

Japan is a nonChristian democracy-and a place that I would very much like to visit- but I know that Turkey has problems due to the extremist in their country.

Of course none of this has anything to do with transgenders or intolerance.

 

[Petergee]

Like those great Christian nations Malaysia, Turkey, Japan, India…

Democracy started to develop in those countries only when they were heavily influenced by Christianity, or had democracy more or less imposed on them by Christian countries. In the case of Turkey and Malaysia there is still a long way to go before they become real democracies, owing mainly to the natural antipathy of Islam to democracy. True democracy has never arisen anywhere independently from Christianity.

 

[Digitonomy]

Democracy started to develop in those countries only when they were heavily influenced by Christianity, or had democracy more or less imposed on them by Christian countries.

A little different from the absolutist stance bones_IV proposed.

Petergee:

True democracy has never arisen anywhere independently from Christianity.

Athens?

 

[pathia]

Most people who have sex changes are not hermaphodites(Spelling might be wrong). Of course, if you have a physical disorder such that you are born with the sexual organs of both gender then corrective surgery would be in order.

Please use the term is intersex. Hermaphrodite is outdated and considered exceedingly offensive. Hermaphrodites are/were symbols of fertility and fecundity in pagan religions, meanwhile intersexed individuals are completely sterile in almost all cases, so naming us after a fertility symbol is very insensitive. Despite have traits of both male and female, I can be neither mother nor father, I am utterly barren in both ways.

But if you do not have the above disorder then you are mutilating yourself. Using the existence of a known physical deformity to excuse sexual change for anyone else is wrong.

I was labeled a transsexual long before my intersexism completely diagnosed. This happens to many transsexuals.

when I took Anatomy in college, we learned that forensic detectives can deduce a person’s gender from their bones. That means that your gender goes physically deeper then your sexual organs. Even if you get a sex change, if you are male you will have denser, heavier bones then most female and still be a guy.

Actually, no. Bone density changes because of hormones, Testosterone makes for heavier bones. The women who become men’s bones become denser and heavier, while men who become women lose density and size in their skeleton. The best way to gauge sex by bones is to look at the jaw, forehead and hips, but all of those are somewhat variable across gender lines.

 

[bear06]

That’d be nice if God actually had made everyone clearly male or female. One can debate whether he made people like me the way he did intentionally or that it’s part of original sin, but irregardless of the cause people like me do exist, have existed and will continue to exist.

Well, that’s a whole other ball game. That said, most are not in this situation and the OP was talking about transexuals. Most are created quite clearly and many pervert this very clear nature.

Quite frankly, the hermaphrodite or intersexual is one huge question I’ve always wondered the answer to. It’s one of those “What were you thinking with that, God?” It certainly would be a big cross to bear and it’s definitely not always fun carrying our crosses.

 

[pathia]

Quite frankly, the hermaphrodite or intersexual is one huge question I’ve always wondered the answer to. It’s one of those “What were you thinking with that, God?” It certainly would be a big cross to bear and it’s definitely not always fun carrying our crosses.

Please see my above post. Please don’t use the word hermaphrodite to describe me or others like me. It is about as offensive as ‘the N word’ to intersexuals.

Also as I stated above, I know so many transsexuals that in the process of their journey find out intersexed histories, it is somewhat disconcerting, far far more than should be statistically possible. Of the support group I went to in college, six out of eight of the trans people there had intersexed histories in their medical documents. Most of us only found out because we turned 18 and were able to seize the records our parents hid from us.

 

[bones_IV]

True democracy has never arisen anywhere independently from Christianity.

Exactly.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

So, has anyone come up with a Church document (like the Catechism) that denounces transexuality as a sin? I understand the natural law arguments that might ground the Church’s declaration - I’m not looking for grounds, though, I’m looking for the actual condemnation. I ask because, as far as I know, there is no such condemnation.

 

[pathia]

So, has anyone come up with a Church document (like the Catechism) that denounces transexuality as a sin? I understand the natural law arguments that might ground the Church’s declaration - I’m not looking for grounds, though, I’m looking for the actual condemnation. I ask because, as far as I know, there is no such condemnation.

I’ve never been able to find a direct statement from the Vatican, I have seen statements every now and then from catholic scientists or individual priests.

Most seem to state that they believe transsexuals to be mentally disabled, and we are considered completely insane. Thus the level of sin in a case of insanity is dependent on just how in control we are etc.

 

[Bennie_P]

I’ve never been able to find a direct statement from the Vatican, I have seen statements every now and then from catholic scientists or individual priests.

Most seem to state that they believe transsexuals to be mentally disabled, and we are considered completely insane. Thus the level of sin in a case of insanity is dependent on just how in control we are etc.

So are you transexual or intersexed?

 

[pathia]

So are you transsexual or intersexed?

They are not mutually exclusive categories.

A transsexual is someone who changes which sex they live as in their daily lives. An intersexed person is someone with mixed chromosomes, hormones, anatomy etc. I was born and assigned one gender, I rebelled against that one from about the age of four and eventually changed the sex I appear/work/live as, thus I am both intersexed and transsexual.

The diagnosis and treatment for transsexuals and intersexuals that reject their initial assignment is more or less the same, we go to the same doctors, therapists, specialists, surgeons etc as transsexuals.

 

[bear06]

I’d imagine that Courage priests would probably know best the Church teachings on the matter.

As far as far as terminology, I believe the Church actually refers to those born with aspects of both genders (who are also lacking some aspects of both genders) as eunuchs.

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19941116en.html

It’s not a sin but they are called to a life of chastity. Of course, this doesn’t address the manner of dress. Again, that’s where I’d think the priests of Courage would be of help.

 

[pathia]

It’s not a sin but they are called to a life of chastity. Of course, this doesn’t address the manner of dress. Again, that’s where I’d think the priests of Courage would be of help.

Courage has little to nothing to offer anyone like me, I know, I tried to get help there and no one could really offer me anything except general sympathy.

Same Sex Attractions and Gender Identity Disorders have very little in common and Courage is by far overwhelmingly SSA sufferers. So much so I joined a mailing list with several hundred maybe over one thousand members, and there wasn’t a single other person with anything remotely close to my situation.

 

[bear06]

Courage has little to nothing to offer anyone like me, I know, I tried to get help there and no one could really offer me anything except general sympathy.

Same Sex Attractions and Gender Identity Disorders have very little in common and Courage is by far overwhelmingly SSA sufferers. So much so I joined a mailing list with several hundred maybe over one thousand members, and there wasn’t a single other person with anything remotely close to my situation.

Did you contact a priest from Courage? I’d find it hard that a Courage priest could not offer you some counsel. What kind of help are you looking for?

 

[pathia]

Did you contact a priest from Courage? I’d find it hard that a Courage priest could not offer you some counsel. What kind of help are you looking for?

I have…problems with talking with priests in private that is unrelated to the issue being discussed here. I mainly interact with the church virtually because of how unwelcome I have felt by going there in person over the last few years.

Usually priests just tell me to see a psychiatrist/psychologist, a catholic one, but then I can’t find any with experiences with my problems.

 

[Keikiolu]

When you consider the intrusive style of Socialism in the EU and the type that Hillary Clinton or the liberals in the US want, it isn’t too difficult to see that they are both leftist ideologies. It is also true that Nazi ideas are still around and still have influence in European and US liberal circles. Nazis had all the hallmarks of leftists, except they were leftists with guns and the will to subjugate the World.

Alte verrückten Augen die linke-ist

(( BAD translation, probably, via Google Translation. ))

 

[bear06]

I have…problems with talking with priests in private that is unrelated to the issue being discussed here. I mainly interact with the church virtually because of how unwelcome I have felt by going there in person over the last few years.

Usually priests just tell me to see a psychiatrist/psychologist, a catholic one, but then I can’t find any with experiences with my problems.

I highly recommend talking to a Courage priest. Yes, your situation is quite different. That said, I’m pretty sure that the Church calls you to a life of chastity and this is one area they can help with. I’m very sorry you have felt unwelcome. It’s not an issue that most deal with so you might look at some issues in life that you are not familiar with. Sometimes, people just don’t quite no what to say.

 

[deb1]

pathia, thank you for correcting me on the term. I didn’t know that it had changed. What is the medical term for your condition?

 

[pathia]

pathia, thank you for correcting me on the term. I didn’t know that it had changed. What is the medical term for your condition?

Intersex is the most widely used term now and has been so for well over a decade. It replaces hermaphrodite. Any condition that one might describe as hermaphroditic in any manner is considered intersexuality instead.

There is some movement to call it DSD. Disorders of Sex Development, but there has been some backlash from intersex people because that makes us sound like even more of an ‘error’ or mistake. Intersex is the least likely to offend anyone

I am somewhat flustered as the church itself continues to use ‘hermaphrodite’ all the time in their documents and apologetics.

 

[TMC]

Peace Pathia.

Kudos on having the courage to hang out on Catholic forums, which are not always understanding. I know that it is difficult to find support for the intersexed, both in faith and other areas. Not to make an excuse, but it comes down to a numbers problem. You figure you guys are about 1 in 2000? or so, and so many either deny or choose to live in their birth assigned sex and lay low. So there just aren’t a lot of resources being applied. Not that any of that is fair to you as an individual.

I have nothing really to offer you but to repeat what you already know: God created each and every human person as a reflection of his image. You reflect Him no more or less perfectly than anyone else, and are loved no less fully. The fact that not everyone realizes this basic truth is due to the imperfection inherent in their own reflection of God, not yours.

I hope your path is always lighted by an awareness of His Love, and pray for your continued courage and happiness on your journey.