Fired teacher suing diocese

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I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. I wouldn’t expect that a math teacher, for example, is involved in teaching the faith (Pascal’s Wager as a topic in decision theory? Goedel’s ontological argument as a topic in formal logic?). Language Arts in a public school is not about teaching any faith; it seems entirely possible that a Catholic school could have a language arts teacher whose curriculum is likewise non-religious.
 
Trader said:
Many years ago, another teacher at that same school and her husband had difficulty in conceiving a child. They treated the condition with a pilgrimage to a shrine in Ohio. It worked pretty well because their sixth daughter is my god-daughter.😃
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Cute story, but somehow I doubt the effectiveness of a pilgrimage and real, medical treatment are even in the same ballpark.
 
Trader said:
I agree all should be held to the same standard, but for most of the others, the school would have no way of knowing who does or does not practice contraception. Not all fertility treatments are immoral.
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A Catholic can get fertility treatments? Boy, I wish I knew that earlier. My wife and I have been unable to conceive for years now and I didn’t think you were allowed to do anything about it. 😦
 
JonNC said:
You may be right, Dale. However, I think it a fair claim that if you work in a Catholic school (or a Lutheran one) as a teacher, you are in an undeniable way involved in the teaching of the faith.

Then again, I’m not sure how the CC views its lay school teachers.

Jon
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Our terminology is different for sure, but the actual role of Catholic and Lutheran school teachers is very similar. Neither school would or should restrict the faith to religion classes.

I know a Baptist music teacher who taught at a Catholic school so her children could get free tuition at a superior school. Both her son and daughter became Catholic and are now in a Catholic high school. She told a really funny story at a party about how she wound up leading the rosary one time. Her husband came back to the Church and is a cantor at the Cathedral. She has sung with our choir several times. Now that she is surrounded by Catholics 24/7 it is only a matter of time before she make the journey home.:cool:
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
A Catholic can get fertility treatments? Boy, I wish I knew that earlier. My wife and I have been unable to conceive for years now and I didn’t think you were allowed to do anything about it. 😦
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naprotechnology.com/

This is just a start, but there is lots of new research that respects the dignity of persons and is very effective in both acheiving pregnancy and delaying pregnancy for just reasons. There are clinics using this technology in just about every major metropolitan area.
 
Trader said:
naprotechnology.com/

This is just a start, but there is lots of new research that respects the dignity of persons and is very effective in both acheiving pregnancy and delaying pregnancy for just reasons. There are clinic using this technology in just about every major metropolitan area.
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Thank you 🙂

Does it really work?
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
Cute story, but somehow I doubt the effectiveness of a pilgrimage and real, medical treatment are even in the same ballpark.
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I have nothing against real medical treatments, but there are plenty of stories about couples who adopted a child because they could not conceive and then did have a child of their own. Psycoholgical changes that relieve stress can have lead to physical changes in the body. My aunt and uncle are one of those stories.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
A Catholic can get fertility treatments? Boy, I wish I knew that earlier. My wife and I have been unable to conceive for years now and I didn’t think you were allowed to do anything about it. 😦
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I’m sorry you have this burden. As I understand it the Pope Paul institute is a great Catholic source of information about how infertility can be treated morally.

popepaulvi.com/

You will be in my prayers.
 
mommamia said:
I’m sorry you have this burden. As I understand it the Pope Paul institute is a great Catholic source of information about how infertility can be treated morally.

popepaulvi.com/

You will be in my prayers.
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Thank you for the resource! I apologize for throwing the thread a bit off track. Let’s continue.
 
Eleve said:
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. I wouldn’t expect that a math teacher, for example, is involved in teaching the faith (Pascal’s Wager as a topic in decision theory? Goedel’s ontological argument as a topic in formal logic?). Language Arts in a public school is not about teaching any faith; it seems entirely possible that a Catholic school could have a language arts teacher whose curriculum is likewise non-religious.
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Just to be clear, I have no idea whether teachers in Catholic schools ordinarily act as ministers or teach the faith. I just mean to say that being a teacher and being in a religious school is not in itself the same thing as teaching a faith.
 
Eleve said:
Just to be clear, I have no idea whether teachers in Catholic schools ordinarily act as ministers or teach the faith. I just mean to say that being a teacher and being in a religious school is not in itself the same thing as teaching a faith.
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Sometimes they do. In the local school, homeroom teachers do a brief period (say, 20 minutes) of religious instruction every day,
 
foxnews.com/us/2012/04/25/teacher-says-catholic-school-fired-her-over-ivf/

Thanks for the link. This link has a little bit more information. She is actually not Catholic even though she teaches at a Catholic school. She also did not know the specific teaching about IVF- which I think is safe to say is really not as well known as the Catholic teaching on abortion and gay marriage. For example, you wouldn’t go to your boss at a Catholic school and say, “Hey I need off for a few days because I am getting an abortion.” Most non Catholics know what the Church teaches about abortion- especially if they teach at a Catholic school. But obviously this women didn’t know the teaching because she informed her principal of it candidly. This was also a private issue that was discussed between her and her boss. I am assuming she wasn’t telling her students all the details about her struggle with trying to conceive so I am really not sure that there would have been a lot of scandal- maybe if she was sharing it with staff members? Not sure if she was- the article doesn’t say. Perhaps she could have been informed of the teaching and then asked not to discuss the fact that she had had IVF with the students, teachers, and parents.

Should it matter that she was not Catholic and did not know the Catholic teaching about this? I feel that firing her was a bit unfair since she was unaware of the teaching and is also not a Catholic. Catholic schools definitely have the right to expect their employees to uphold the teachings of the church but in this case, I feel like her ignorance was not her fault. So how should Catholic schools prevent these misunderstandings from happening if they want to continue hiring people who are not Catholic? Should Catholic schools hire only Catholics? Perhaps applicants for teaching positions should have to take an exam on the teachings of the church- like the Catholic version of the Praxis or something? What do you think? I am not trying to be sarcastic when I say that by the way.
 
Who is on the EEOC commission? Is it a political appointment by Obama? Are there politics going on? Is the point to bankrupt the Catholic diocese by causing a lawsuit which the EEOC has a pretty good idea that they will lose? Is the point to just bully everyone and use tax dollars to wage lawsuits to do the bullying?

Some of you who are excusing her behavior, is it because you see no problem with invitro fertilization? If you substitute another grave immoral act, like abortion (as someone wrote), or prostitution or bank robbery, would it make the issue clearer?
 
PenitentGrace said:
foxnews.com/us/2012/04/25/teacher-says-catholic-school-fired-her-over-ivf/

Thanks for the link. This link has a little bit more information. She is actually not Catholic even though she teaches at a Catholic school. She also did not know the specific teaching about IVF- which I think is safe to say is really not as well known as the Catholic teaching on abortion and gay marriage. For example, you wouldn’t go to your boss at a Catholic school and say, “Hey I need off for a few days because I am getting an abortion.” Most non Catholics know what the Church teaches about abortion- especially if they teach at a Catholic school. But obviously this women didn’t know the teaching because she informed her principal of it candidly. This was also a private issue that was discussed between her and her boss. I am assuming she wasn’t telling her students all the details about her struggle with trying to conceive so I am really not sure that there would have been a lot of scandal- maybe if she was sharing it with staff members? Not sure if she was- the article doesn’t say. Perhaps she could have been informed of the teaching and then asked not to discuss the fact that she had had IVF with the students, teachers, and parents.

Should it matter that she was not Catholic and did not know the Catholic teaching about this? I feel that firing her was a bit unfair since she was unaware of the teaching and is also not a Catholic. Catholic schools definitely have the right to expect their employees to uphold the teachings of the church but in this case, I feel like her ignorance was not her fault. So how should Catholic schools prevent these misunderstandings from happening if they want to continue hiring people who are not Catholic? Should Catholic schools hire only Catholics? Perhaps applicants for teaching positions should have to take an exam on the teachings of the church- like the Catholic version of the Praxis or something? What do you think? I am not trying to be sarcastic when I say that by the way.
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I think they’re going to lose this case because they knew about her first attempt at IVF and did and said nothing. There was nothing different about the second time that got her fired. If they don’t have a morality clause carved into her contract, which no one has mentioned on either side, then they will have a tough time.
 
Rence said:
I think they’re going to lose this case because they knew about her first attempt at IVF and did and said nothing. There was nothing different about the second time that got her fired. If they don’t have a morality clause carved into her contract, which no one has mentioned on either side, then they will have a tough time.
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I’m not so sure they will loose. A lot depends on the terms of her contract, any moral code requirements and what she actually told her supervisors about her “fertility treatments.” She was also not so much fired as her contract wasn’t renewed. As long as they fulfilled their previous contract, they may not be obligated to continue to employ her.
 
incense said:
Some of you who are excusing her behavior, is it because you see no problem with invitro fertilization? If you substitute another grave immoral act, like abortion (as someone wrote), or prostitution or bank robbery, would it make the issue clearer?
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No- I was suggesting that it might not be fair to fire her if she truly didn’t know that IVF was against Church teaching.

I might be wrong about this, but I don’t think as many people know about the moral implications of IVF. In general, it seems that there is less ignorance about the wrongness of prostitution or bank robbery.
 
incense said:
Some of you who are excusing her behavior, is it because you see no problem with invitro fertilization? If you substitute another grave immoral act, like abortion (as someone wrote), or prostitution or bank robbery, would it make the issue clearer?
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I see no problem with in vitro fertilization personally, but as a Catholic, it’s a rule of the Church and so I choose to obey the rule in order to be in communion with the Church, and that’s about it. I considered IVF before I happened upon this forum a while back. After learning that the Church forbids it, I stopped pursuing it. But I’m happy for those who don’t have that same burden, and who have successfully gotten pregnant with the help of IVF. So yes, if the situation was abortion, prostitution or bank robbery, of course the issue would be more clear. But then again, single mothers can be fired from their jobs if there is a morality clause included, which doesn’t help single mothers choose life in their time of need.
 
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