First Confession, Moral Theology

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Hi

most intersting.
I’ve never heard about that ever before.
Is this then a terminology from theology or philosphy?
Esdra,
Code:
 You may be interested in listening to some good talks on Natural Law.  You can download 'em here (yes, they're free):
alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Natural_Law-1.mp3 (by Dr. Charles E. Rice)

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Jay%20Budziszewski-Natural_Law_Moral_Truth_and_Conscience.mp3 (by Dr. J. Budziszewski)

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Francis_Beckwith-Natural_Law_Natural_Rights.mp3 (by Dr. Francis Beckwith)

🙂
 
He said that the Catholic Church teaches that blood-transfusions are bad, just like Jehovah’s Wittnesses do (That’s by the way one of the reasons they are known for!).

And that the same counts for organ transplantationes.

This is completely false. Where is he getting this information from? I can’t even think of anything that he might have misunderstood, to have come up with this idea. :confused:
He also mentioned sth concerning aids and that the CC rejects this illness completely. But I didn’t really get him here.
We believe that the only effective prevention for AIDS is to abstain from sex outside of marriage, and to remain completely faithful to your spouse within marriage.
Another point we were discussing about is that her daughter didn’t want to go to confession before recieving First Communion because she thought that to be ridiculous.
If she has no sins to confess, she can tell the priest so, when she goes into the Confessional.
But, as he quitted with the Church, he said he doesn’t mind; because he also thinks that it is stupid for a child with 8 years to go to confession. What terrible sins she might have done?
She can have shown disrespect or disobedience towards her parents; she can have bullied a younger child and taken something of his that was of great value to him (even if it didn’t have high monetary value); she can have gotten into the medicine cabinet and eaten something that was harmful for her; she can have broken solemn promises that she made - just because children don’t typically do a lot of serious or lasting damage doesn’t mean she can’t sin at all.
And he said he remembered when he had to go to confession as a child that he was afraid in the cold and dark church with a statue of a martyr scourging himself (what could he have meant?) and that he made up sins because he simply couldn’t remember any he actually commited.
So, his childish fear of the dark, and fear of a scary-looking statue, and the fact that he didn’t know how to make a good Confession, is somehow his daughter’s priest’s fault? 🤷
I then told him that he and her daughter be heretics because you are obliged from the CC doctrine to go to confession before recieving the Holy Communion for the first time. (And I added that I also would be, as I am not even Catholic [anymore].)
By the way is this linked to 1 Cor 11:29?
Yes. 👍
But the story is going on! 😉 Then several kids (classmates of his daughter) refused to go to confession and when the priest of his parish got to know, he said he’ll refuse Holy Communion to those without them going to confession.
So the parents went to the priest of the neighboring parish and asked him to give their kids first communion and he agreed to make a penitential service for the kids and then give them the First Communion.
What do you say to this? Did the priest of the neighboring village act correctly? Or the priest of his home parish?
I assume that the Service of Penance will include the opportunity for the children to go to Confession just before receiving Holy Communion?
What would you suggest him (my acquaintance)?
To make an Examination of Conscience, and help his daughter make one, and the two of them should go to Confession together in a place that hasn’t got any scary-looking statues in it, with Dad setting the good example for his child. 🙂
 
Esdra,
Code:
 You may be interested in listening to some good talks on Natural Law.  You can download 'em here (yes, they're free):
alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Natural_Law-1.mp3 (by Dr. Charles E. Rice)

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Jay%20Budziszewski-Natural_Law_Moral_Truth_and_Conscience.mp3 (by Dr. J. Budziszewski)

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/Francis_Beckwith-Natural_Law_Natural_Rights.mp3 (by Dr. Francis Beckwith)

🙂
I would also add this wonderful course by Fr. J. Koterski to the list. It is produced by the Teaching Company.

Natural Law and Human Nature
 
This is completely false. Where is he getting this information from? I can’t even think of anything that he might have misunderstood, to have come up with this idea. :confused:
Yeah, I’ve also told him that this is complete nonsense! And actually this was the reason why I started this thread here!😉
We believe that the only effective prevention for AIDS is to abstain from sex outside of marriage, and to remain completely faithful to your spouse within marriage.
Sounds good. But what about preservatives? I guess he referred to that… And I know tey are forbidden…
If she has no sins to confess, she can tell the priest so, when she goes into the Confessional.
Don’t know if she and her dad are aware of that. 😉 (Actually, I also didn’t know that, as I was risen Catholic and also had to go to confession [but more than once a week! With the class. Is this not a little bit to exaggerated in your opinion?])
She can have shown disrespect or disobedience towards her parents; she can have bullied a younger child and taken something of his that was of great value to him (even if it didn’t have high monetary value); she can have gotten into the medicine cabinet and eaten something that was harmful for her; she can have broken solemn promises that she made - just because children don’t typically do a lot of serious or lasting damage doesn’t mean she can’t sin at all.
Yeah, you see people like him (especially when he (the friend) is not Catholic anymore!) don’t think of such things. Only negatively. Confession for a child is stupid and that’s it!
So, his childish fear of the dark, and fear of a scary-looking statue, and the fact that he didn’t know how to make a good Confession, is somehow his daughter’s priest’s fault? 🤷
No, don’t think so. That’s the reason why he thinks Confession is stupid I rather guess. 😉
Does this refer to the Verse also? That this one has to do with that you have to confess your sins before recieving the Holy Eucharist?
I assume that the Service of Penance will include the opportunity for the children to go to Confession just before receiving Holy Communion?
Actually I am not too sure… He seemed rather joyful about that fact and I guess it’s more a service with a general absolution which became VERY popular in the past 10 years among “liberal” priests here in Austria.
To make an Examination of Conscience, and help his daughter make one, and the two of them should go to Confession together in a place that hasn’t got any scary-looking statues in it, with Dad setting the good example for his child. 🙂
That’s really cute. I’ll tell him that for sure!
But isn’t that a problem when he is no longer part of the Church (secession from the Church!)

Thank you. 🙂

Esdra
 

Carlan mentioned natural law and not secular law (law of a specific country). Natural law is the law that is imprinted into us by God, and such a law will drive us even if we are not knowledgeable of Christ.​

most intersting.
I’ve never heard about that ever before.
Is this then a terminology from theology or philosphy?
Hopes this helps Esdra…
The use of reason. It is knowledge built into the human conscience as part of what is called the “natural law.” Paul makes note of such law when discussing those of his own time who were never bound by Old Testament law: “When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts . . .” (Rom. 2:14-15a).

The Ten Commandments are often cited as examples of the natural law. Christians are to follow the laws cited in the Ten Commandments not because they are cited in the Ten Commandments—part of Old Testament law—but because they are part of the natural law—for the most part.

Certainly we can know by reason alone that certain actions are immoral—e.g., to kill the innocent, to take what does not belong to us, to cheat on our spouses, etc.

Similarly, we can know by reason alone that we are obliged to worship our Creator.
Natural law is given to us by God.
Peace, Carlan
 
…Sounds good. But what about preservatives? I guess he referred to that… And I know tey are forbidden…
In the USA preservatives are chemicals that you add to food to ensure long shelf life. What you intend with the word preservatives are called condoms.

It was a big shock for me when I just got to the USA and I saw that a bag of potato chips contained preservatives. I thought that they were including condoms as a special offer.:o
 
Hopes this helps Esdra…
The use of reason. It is knowledge built into the human conscience as part of what is called the “natural law.” Paul makes note of such law when discussing those of his own time who were never bound by Old Testament law: “When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts . . .” (Rom. 2:14-15a).

The Ten Commandments are often cited as examples of the natural law. Christians are to follow the laws cited in the Ten Commandments not because they are cited in the Ten Commandments—part of Old Testament law—but because they are part of the natural law—for the most part.

Certainly we can know by reason alone that certain actions are immoral—e.g., to kill the innocent, to take what does not belong to us, to cheat on our spouses, etc.

Similarly, we can know by reason alone that we are obliged to worship our Creator.
Natural law is given to us by God.
Peace, Carlan
Hi Carlan,

all though this has nothing to do with my thread I thank you for this information.

Again learned something new today! 😉

Esdra
 
In the USA preservatives are chemicals that you add to food to ensure long shelf life. What you intend with the word preservatives are called condoms.

It was a big shock for me when I just got to the USA and I saw that a bag of potato chips contained preservatives. I thought that they were including condoms as a special offer.:o
LOL

Thank you for correcting.
 
In the USA preservatives are chemicals that you add to food to ensure long shelf life. What you intend with the word preservatives are called condoms.

It was a big shock for me when I just got to the USA and I saw that a bag of potato chips contained preservatives. I thought that they were including condoms as a special offer.:o
Thank you for that explanation - I was trying to figure out what in the world preservatives had to do with AIDS. :rolleyes:

I put preservatives in my home-made jelly all the time - I hope they aren’t forbidden by the Church! 😛
 
hi

okay, any other comments?

Please also refer to the post below, as these are the issues that haven’t really been covered so far.
Hi Scoobyshme,

thanks for this good answer.
I’ll wait for more (I’m sure there’ll be more interesting ones ;)) and then print it out and give it to him to read.

So a penitential service is not of the same value than a confession?
I didn’t know that. Because especially in Austria that’s becoming more and more popular. It started I guess when I was a child (so, about10 years ago).

Do you also have answers to
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Esdra:
I then told him that he and her daughter be heretics because you are obliged from the CC doctrine to go to confession before recieving the Holy Communion for the first time. (And I added that I also would be, as I am not even Catholic [anymore].)
By the way is this linked to 1 Cor 11:29? (That you have to go to confession before recieving the Holy Communion?)
Did I tell him the right things concerning the necessity of confession before the (First) Communion?* [You see, I have also been very poorly catechised and have nearly converted in the meantime to a Baptist Church. So I only know most teachings of the CC if I had read them here in CAF!]*

I think it’s alarming that there are so many people out there calling themselves Catholics but knowing NOTHING about their faith and even talk lies and crabb about it.
This starts at refusing as a child going to confession and ends in rejecting the Church (normally). And this happens too often, I guess around the world!
I was the same, but at least I drew the consequence, after I have found after a long search Jesus, I left the CC!
But who knows what’ll happen if I write another 400 posts here! 😉 I am constantly learning about what the CC teaches and this is what I love this board for so much. 😉
40.png
Esdra:
And he said he remembered when he had to go to confession as a child that he was afraid in the cold and dark church with a statue of a martyr scourging himself (what could he have meant?) and that he made up sins because he simply couldn’t remember any he actually commited.
Anyone know who he might have meant by the statue scourging himself? Or did he simply see Christ being scourged?
in Christ,
Esdra
 
In the USA preservatives are chemicals that you add to food to ensure long shelf life. What you intend with the word preservatives are called condoms.

It was a big shock for me when I just got to the USA and I saw that a bag of potato chips contained preservatives. I thought that they were including condoms as a special offer.:o
:eek::eek: Oy vey!! I didn’t know that!! Wow, what a difference a culture makes!

About preservatives (slightly off-topic): some are natural and great. Some are unnatural and carcinogenic. Check the labels. Most bread sold in the U.S. has calcium propionate in it as a preservative - it’s not needed. I’m going organic because of my health and I’ve been absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of artificial preservatives, artificial food dyes in pet food, artificial flavors, etc. It says a lot about a food product when a loaf of apple bread is labeled “Real apples!!” Well, duh, I should hope so.

OK, I’m done. Back to the topic (and my apologies for butting in with an off-topic post).
 
Hi folks,
He said that the Catholic Church teaches that blood-transfusions are bad, just like Jehovah’s Wittnesses do (That’s by the way one of the reasons they are known for!).
You can tell your friend that I’ve received two blood transfusions in a hospital and that it was clear that my religion is “Catholic.”
And that the same counts for organ transplantationes.
I haven’t really had a specific organ transplant, but I was given cadaver bone, again in a hospital with the word “Catholic” as my religious affiliation. The Church is extremely pro-life. She does not condemn life-saving procedures, even if that procedure results in the death of an unborn child, as long as the death of the child is not the primary reason for the procedure.
He also mentioned sth concerning aids and that the CC rejects this illness completely. But I didn’t really get him here…
I don’t get him there, either.
What is the official doctrine of the CC concerning these two issues? (I promised him to post it here, as he knows that I am registered here at CAF and often write posts here, and tell him then. ;))
I haven’t read all the posts. Is there an official doctrine? The CCC would be the place to look (I think). If nobody else has posted absolute official doctrine I’ll be happy to try to find it.
Another point we were discussing about is that her daughter didn’t want to go to confession before recieving First Communion because she thought that to be ridiculous.
A child thinks it’s ridiculous. A child who has reached the age of reason. And ergo, it is ridiculous. Uh huh. I suppose your friend believes that his daughter is smart enough to make the decision that Confession is ridiculous and her decision should be accepted. If she is so intelligent she is obviously intelligent enough to recognize that she has sinned. Her thinking (and your friend’s thinking) about that is all ridiculous!!
I guess a typical aspect of VERY poor catechisis!
But, as he quitted with the Church, he said he doesn’t mind; because he also thinks that it is stupid for a child with 8 years to go to confession. What terrible sins she might have done?
And he said he remembered when he had to go to confession as a child that he was afraid in the cold and dark church with a statue of a martyr scourging himself (what could he have meant?) and that he made up sins because he simply couldn’t remember any he actually commited.
This is the main reason I’m responding to this post. To be honest, I had the same problem. It wasn’t until recently that I knew we were not required to confess venial sins. When I went to Confession as a child I lied to the priest, making up sins I had never committed and going so far as to tell the priest how many times I had committed each never-committed sin. Then I got into this weird thinking: is my lying to the priest about lying covered by this Confession or do I have to confess it again next time?

Poor catechises indeed!! I was so confused I didn’t know what to do but I was forced to go to Confession and the priest knew who I was (my Dad did a lot of pro bono work for the church) and sometimes when I was leaving the Confessional the priest would yell out “Tell your father to call me!!” and I would slink away in embarrassment as every other kid there laughed at me. 😦

Your friend’s daughter needs to be taught real Church teaching. If she is attending Catholic school and is not being taught correctly, it is his responsibility to make sure that she understands why Confession is so important. And I can tell you why - it doesn’t make sense to receive God in the Holy Eucharist with a soul riddled with sin. It’s not respectful and it makes no sense when the Church founded by God has given us a Sacrament (note: that means it’s very important!!) to help us remain reconciled with God and to get rid of those sins.
Why else would the girls wear white dresses? We are presenting ourselves to God as able to consume His Body and Blood - as holy and perfect as we can be. The Sacrament of Communion is IMHO the absolute most important part of being Catholic.

If your friend’s daughter doesn’t understand the importance of the Sacrament of Reconciliation she is not ready to receive the Eucharist. It’s an insult to God to receive Him while at the same time refusing to go through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Why even bother? Should she wait until she commits a “really bad sin?” Children of eight years lie, steal, curse, and sometimes even murder. And why give up the chance to become reconciled with God and receive His grace? She should be begging to go to Confession. It’s a wonderful gift from God who loves us. Her whole attitude confuses me but as your friend seems to have some problems about understanding Church teaching I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

I don’t know anything that can help you with the rest of your post. I don’t think our church has anything other than one on one, face-to-face Confession. And that is what I want. If I believed that attending Confession before my first Holy Communion is “ridiculous” I would love to tell the priest that, face-to-face and let him defend the Church.

I’ll try to find the official documentation.

It’s really nice that you are concerned about your friend’s daughter. That says a lot for your character. God bless!!
 
Official Church Teaching Re Organ Transplants

Organ transplants are in conformity with the moral law if the physical and psychological dangers and risks to the donor are proportionate to the good sought for the recipient. Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and is to be encouraged as a expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent. Moreover, it is not morally admissible to bring about the disabling mutilation or death of a human being, even in order to delay the death of other persons.

[Catechism of the Catholic Church 2296, bolding and underlining added for emphasis]

The following is not official Church teaching (as far as I know) but I liked it, so I’m posting it anyway:

"Catholics view organ and tissue donation as an act of charity and love. Transplants are morally and ethically acceptable to the Vatican. According to Father Leroy Wickowski, Director of the Office of Health Affairs of the Archdiocese of Chicago, “We encourage donation as an act of charity. It is something good that can result from tragedy and a way for families to find comfort by helping others.” Pope John Paul II has stated, “The Catholic Church would promote the fact that there is a need for organ donors and that Christians should accept this as a ‘challenge to their generosity and fraternal love’ so long as ethical principles are followed.”

organtransplants.org/understanding/religion/

There is more official teaching from an encyclical. The following is only my opinion.

While researching this I found out Pope Benedict has specified that he is an organ donor.

I’d like to point out that not only is organ donation acceptable to the Church, it is seen as noble and meritorious. The Church encourages us to be organ donors. All Catholics are part of the Communion of Saints - our good actions benefit all who are also in the Communion of Saints. Yet it goes beyond even that. If a person donates her heart which allows another person to live, that action is not just a personal action between donor and receiver; it is an action which adds to the good of all.

It is also an expression of love between two people, who probably have never even met. A person who donates an organ to another person is showing a love that shows her love for God.

“And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.”

[Matthew 25:40, Douay-Rheims]

I’m having problems finding official Church teaching on blood transfusions. This could be simply because blood is an organ and falls under the heading of “organ transplants.” I keep running across JW sites even though I specifically request Catholic Church teaching.
 
Official Church Teaching Re Organ Transplants

Organ transplants are in conformity with the moral law if the physical and psychological dangers and risks to the donor are proportionate to the good sought for the recipient. Organ donation after death is a noble and meritorious act and is to be encouraged as a expression of generous solidarity. It is not morally acceptable if the donor or his proxy has not given explicit consent. Moreover, it is not morally admissible to bring about the disabling mutilation or death of a human being, even in order to delay the death of other persons.

[Catechism of the Catholic Church 2296, bolding and underlining added for emphasis]

There is more official teaching from an encyclical. The following is only my opinion.

While researching this I found out Pope Benedict has specified that he is an organ donor.

I’d like to point out that not only is organ donation acceptable to the Church, it is seen as noble and meritorious. The Church encourages us to be organ donors. All Catholics are part of the Communion of Saints - our good actions benefit all who are also in the Communion of Saints. Yet it goes beyond even that. If a person donates her heart which allows another person to live, that action is not just a personal action between donor and receiver; it is an action which adds to the good of all.

It is also an expression of love between two people, who probably have never even met. A person who donates an organ to another person is showing a love that shows her love for God.

“And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.”

[Matthew 25:40, Douay-Rheims]
I think that major issue with organ donation is the fact that they usually have to harvest the organs while you are still alive. Very few organs are considered good for transplant if harvested after your death. I also understand that medications like anesthetics are not allowed in a donor body.
 
I think that major issue with organ donation is the fact that they usually have to harvest the organs while you are still alive. Very few organs are considered good for transplant if harvested after your death. I also understand that medications like anesthetics are not allowed in a donor body.
There is a time period after death during which organs can be harvested. If this weren’t possible all of those who have checked “organ donor” on our drivers’ licenses would be wasting time.

The only organs I know of that are transplanted while a person is alive are those the person can live without, e.g. a kidney or bone marrow - both of which can provide life to a dying person and not cause death in a living person.

I don’t know anything about anaesthetics in the donor body. I’m not a physician; I’m providing Church teaching which was requested in the OP.
 
I think that major issue with organ donation is the fact that they usually have to harvest the organs while you are still alive. Very few organs are considered good for transplant if harvested after your death. I also understand that medications like anesthetics are not allowed in a donor body.
For some organs, such as the liver, one can be a living donor by donating part of their liver.

For other organs, like heart and lungs, the person must be declared dead before harvesting happens. Machines may be keeping blood flowing so that the organs will be viable, but the person is certainly not alive.
 
For some organs, such as the liver, one can be a living donor by donating part of their liver.

For other organs, like heart and lungs, the person must be declared dead before harvesting happens. Machines may be keeping blood flowing so that the organs will be viable, but the person is certainly not alive.
Thank you. I’d forgotten about the liver.

Organs:

•According to the government website Organ Donor, the kidneys, lungs, heart, liver, pancreas and intestines can be taken from the recently deceased and used to replace failing organs in the living. One kidney and parts of the pancreas, liver, lung and intestines can be donated from those still living.

Tissues:

•Certain tissues can also be donated from the deceased, including corneas, the middle ear, skin, heart valves, bones, veins, cartilage, tendons and ligaments. These tissues can be stored in banks and used to restore sight, cover burns and repair hearts.

Stem Cells and Platelets:

•Stem cells can be donated from healthy individuals ages 18 to 60 and are harvested from bone marrow, peripheral blood stem cells or cord blood.

Blood and platelets can be donated from the living and stored according to blood type and Rh factors. Platelets are small fragments in the blood that help it clot.

ehow.com/facts_6809621_many-after-death-aid-living_.html
 
Here’s more on the Church’s position on organ donation:

Love and Communion are, in fact the very principles by which the Catholic Church has formed its attitude towards organ donation. Addressing participants in the First International Congress of ‘The Society For Organ Sharing’ on 20th June, 1991 **Pope John Paul commented, “In effect, transplantation presupposes a prior, explicit, free and conscious decision on the part of the donor or of someone who legitimately represents the donor, generally the closest relatives. It is a decision to offer, without reward, a part of one’s own body for the health and well-being of another person. In this sense, the medical action of transplantation makes possible the donor’s act of self-giving, that sincere gift of self which expresses our constitutive calling to love and communion.” ** (paragraph 3)

Three years later, in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae (Gospel of Life) Pope John Paul II summed up the thought of his predecessor Pins XII who, whilst speaking to a group of eye specialists in 1956, had made the first papal comment about organ donation. Echoing sentiments expressed nearly forty years earlier by Pope Pius, **John Paul wrote, "The Gospel of Life is celebrated above all else in the daily living of life which should be filled with self giving for others. In this way our lives will become a genuine and responsible acceptance of the gift of life and a heartfelt song of praise and gratitude to God who has given us this gift…

“It is in this context, so humanly rich and filled with love, that heroic actions too are born. These are the most solemn celebration of the Gospel of life, for they proclaim it by the total gift of self. They are the radiant manifestation of the highest degree of love, which is to give one’s life for the person loved (cf. Jn.15:13). They are a sharing in the mystery of the Cross, in which Jesus reveals the value of every person, and how life attains its fullness in the sincere gift of self Over and above such outstanding moments, there is an everyday heroism, made up of gestures and sharing, big or small, which build up an authentic culture of life. A particular praiseworthy example of such gestures is the donation of organs performed in an ethically acceptable manner, with a view to offering a chance of health and even life itself to the sick who sometimes have no other hope.” (Evangelium Vitae, n.86)

catholicdoctors.org.uk/CMQ/Nov_1998/organ_donation.htm
[Bolding has been added for emphasis, italics are added]

Evangelium Vitae is the encyclical to which I referred in a previous post.**
 
…For other organs, like heart and lungs, the person must be declared dead before harvesting happens. Machines may be keeping blood flowing so that the organs will be viable, but the person is certainly not alive.
This is where the debate about being dead or alive starts. I know of Catholic physicians that would argue with your statement.
 
This is where the debate about being dead or alive starts. I know of Catholic physicians that would argue with your statement.
All you have posted here is the unfounded assertion that you know of “Catholic physicians that would argue with [that poster’s] statement.”

Why don’t you have your physician acquaintances post their assertions or else post your assertions with documentation?

Or start a thread on the debate about “being dead or alive?”
 
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