First Details of Apostolic Visitation in Ireland

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The Holy See has issued a press release stating that the Apostolic Visitation, promised in Pope Benedict’s Letter to the Catholics of Ireland last March, will begin in the Autumn of this year.

It is to begin with the four Archdioceses of the country - Dublin, Cashel & Emly, Armagh and Tuam - before being extended to some other dioceses. The Holy Father has named the following as Visitors for the first stage of the Visitation:

-His Eminence, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop Emeritus of Westminster, will be Visitor to Armagh.

-His Eminence, Cardinal Sean Patrick O’Malley, Archbishop of Boston, will be Visitor to Dublin.

-Most Reverend Thomas Christopher Collins, Archbishop of Toronto, will be Visitor to Cashel & Emly.

-Most Reverend Terrence Thomas Prendergast, Archbishop of Ottawa, will be Visitor to Tuam.

-In the case of seminaries, the Apostolic Visitor will be Most Reverend Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York.

Full text of Press Release HERE
 
NPC said:
The Holy See has issued a press release stating that the Apostolic Visitation, promised in Pope Benedict’s Letter to the Catholics of Ireland last March, will begin in the Autumn of this year.

It is to begin with the four Archdioceses of the country - Dublin, Cashel & Emly, Armagh and Tuam - before being extended to some other dioceses. The Holy Father has named the following as Visitors for the first stage of the Visitation:

-His Eminence, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop Emeritus of Westminster, will be Visitor to Armagh.

-His Eminence, Cardinal Sean Patrick O’Malley, Archbishop of Boston, will be Visitor to Dublin.

-Most Reverend Thomas Christopher Collins, Archbishop of Toronto, will be Visitor to Cashel & Emly.

-Most Reverend Terrence Thomas Prendergast, Archbishop of Ottawa, will be Visitor to Tuam.

-In the case of seminaries, the Apostolic Visitor will be Most Reverend Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York.

Full text of Press Release HERE
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Interesting. All of Irish descent, all from countries where the Church failed miserably to handle the sex abuse crisis with any kind of integrity. And all, presumably, have come through the same kind of seminary training that they are now investigating. What is the Irish Church supposed to learn from them?
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Interesting. All of Irish descent, all from countries where the Church failed miserably to handle the sex abuse crisis with any kind of integrity. And all, presumably, have come through the same kind of seminary training that they are now investigating. What is the Irish Church supposed to learn from them?
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I don’t claim to know the backgrounds of all the bishops - I don’t believe I’ve heard of Archbishops Collins and Prendergast. However, I think Cardinal O’Malley has shown himself to be a bishop who takes the issue of abuse very seriously. In 1995, he required that any priest, seminarian, church employee or volunteer with access to children to participate in abuse prevention workshops, complete a detailed questionnaire on their past, and agree to a criminal background check. He was also the second bishop in the U.S. to introduce mandatory reporting of all allegations - his was a model which was widely copied. His move to a Florida diocese followed the resignations of two bishops who had admitted molesting boys. His later appointment to Boston followed the resignation of Cardinal Law. So the Holy See clearly sees him as a capable and committed bishop with a keen sensitivity to the gravity of the abuse crisis which has swept through the Church in the U.S. and Ireland.

As for Archbishop Dolan - as the man charged with investigating the formation of clerics in the seminaries, I think his lecture given at Maynooth yesterday (HERE) shows that he has a wonderful insight into the nature of the priesthood. He said “I stand before you simply as a man who loves being a priest”. How simple, but I wish we had more priests who would stand up and say that. We can only give what we possess ourselves, and Archbishop Dolan possesses much joy in his priesthood. I think we can be confident that Archbishop Dolan will carry out the Visitation successfully.
 
NPC said:
I don’t claim to know the backgrounds of all the bishops - I don’t believe I’ve heard of Archbishops Collins and Prendergast. However, I think Cardinal O’Malley has shown himself to be a bishop who takes the issue of abuse very seriously. In 1995, he required that any priest, seminarian, church employee or volunteer with access to children to participate in abuse prevention workshops, complete a detailed questionnaire on their past, and agree to a criminal background check. He was also the second bishop in the U.S. to introduce mandatory reporting of all allegations - his was a model which was widely copied. His move to a Florida diocese followed the resignations of two bishops who had admitted molesting boys. His later appointment to Boston followed the resignation of Cardinal Law. So the Holy See clearly sees him as a capable and committed bishop with a keen sensitivity to the gravity of the abuse crisis which has swept through the Church in the U.S. and Ireland.
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But, something of a ‘coals to Newcastle’ appointment? The Irish Church’s current child protection policies and procedures are considered to be among the most stringent in the Catholic world. Isn’t it a bit late (and possibly redundant) to be sending Cardinal O’Malley to us?
As for Archbishop Dolan - as the man charged with investigating the formation of clerics in the seminaries, I think his lecture given at Maynooth yesterday (HERE) shows that he has a wonderful insight into the nature of the priesthood. He said “I stand before you simply as a man who loves being a priest”. How simple, but I wish we had more priests who would stand up and say that. We can only give what we possess ourselves, and Archbishop Dolan possesses much joy in his priesthood. I think we can be confident that Archbishop Dolan will carry out the Visitation successfully.
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Yes, I read Archbishop Dolan’s Maynooth lecture earlier today but can’t say I found it anything but a routine pep talk, even allowing for it being billed as a Year of the Priest event and with an audience exclusivelyof clerics and religious. I am sure that Archbishop Dolan is being honest when he says that he’s not coming to Ireland as a “know-it-all-Yank” but the very fact that he has to say it suggests that he is not unaware of how this Visitation may be hampered by that perception.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
But, something of a ‘coals to Newcastle’ appointment? The Irish Church’s current child protection policies and procedures are considered to be among the most stringent in the Catholic world. Isn’t it a bit late (and possibly redundant) to be sending Cardinal O’Malley to us?
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Cardinal O’Malley has now cleaned up 3 dioceses: Boston, Fall River and Palm Beach (where the 2 prior Bishops! were actual abusers). He has the experience and chops to know what’s what. I’m confident that of all those named he’ll be the most knowledgeable and helpful. If things are already cleaned up - he’ll know it; he’ll know it if they aren’t, too. He’s the real thing in this regard.

As to all the Irish names, I have to suspect that was deliberate. Whether it’s a good or bad thing remains to be seen.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
“To be sure, to be sure” ???

Says it all about this particular commentator.
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Yes - that’s ridiculous really; I don’t know of any Irish person who says this (on a regular basis anyway), and I certainly don’t use the expression! As someone commented on WDTPRS, the Irish use that expression when they’re mocking the Irish!

Someone on WDTPRS pointed out that on the Archdiocese of Toronto website it says: “The Archdiocese of Toronto does not have an exorcist nor does it perform the rite of exorcism”. Nothing to do with the Apostolic Visitation of course, but I find it interesting that 1) a Catholic diocese would publicise the fact that it does not perform exorcisms (perhaps it’s not something one should publish either way) and 2) that it can so flatly rule out the possibility of the need for exorcism. In the FAQ section, I found the answer to the question “As a member of the Catholic Church, what am I supposed to do?” quite odd. There are five points given in reply, all of which, it seems could be summed up by “have some social concern” - nothing about the Precepts of the Church, such as receiving Holy Communion during Eastertide, or confessing one’s sins at least once a year: I would have thought they would be regarded as rather central to being a Catholic…
 
NPC said:
Yes - that’s ridiculous really; I don’t know of any Irish person who says this (on a regular basis anyway), and I certainly don’t use the expression! As someone commented on WDTPRS, the Irish use that expression when they’re mocking the Irish!
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Yes, NPC, Kiltartan via Hollywood! - If he doesn’t know enough not to use such a patronizing phrase, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in his comments.
Someone on WDTPRS pointed out that on the Archdiocese of Toronto website it says: “The Archdiocese of Toronto does not have an exorcist nor does it perform the rite of exorcism”. Nothing to do with the Apostolic Visitation of course, but I find it interesting that 1) a Catholic diocese would publicise the fact that it does not perform exorcisms (perhaps it’s not something one should publish either way) and 2) that it can so flatly rule out the possibility of the need for exorcism. In the FAQ section, I found the answer to the question “As a member of the Catholic Church, what am I supposed to do?” quite odd. There are five points given in reply, all of which, it seems could be summed up by “have some social concern” - nothing about the Precepts of the Church, such as receiving Holy Communion during Eastertide, or confessing one’s sins at least once a year: I would have thought they would be regarded as rather central to being a Catholic…
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The bit about the exorcist is a bit odd alright. I wonder if there are local circumstances that could explain it or at least give it some context.

I suppose your second point - about the answer to the question ‘As a member of the Catholic Church etc…’ might be explained thus: if you’re a member of the CC then you should already know the precepts of the Church and the requirements of the Easter duty. Here’s some things about the equally important Church social teachings that you should know and make part of your life.

That’s how I would read it, anyway.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
“To be sure, to be sure” ???

Says it all about this particular commentator.
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Thank God he didn’t say, “Sure and begorrah!”

Many Americans (and Aussies, too) of Irish descent, for a variety of reasons, identify strongly with their (glorified) Irish heritage despite being 4 or more generations removed from “the ould sod.” God knows some of that has to rankle the Irish. Nonetheless, having a group review what’s taken place and what’s been put in place can’t hurt.

Any hints on what part of Ireland Fr. Zuhlsdorf’s family are from? 😃
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Interesting. All of Irish descent, all from countries where the Church failed miserably to handle the sex abuse crisis with any kind of integrity. And all, presumably, have come through the same kind of seminary training that they are now investigating. What is the Irish Church supposed to learn from them?
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I’m trying to make allowances for the evident bitterness in the above, but I am outraged at the slur against Archbishops Prendergast and Collins.

These Canadian Metropolitans have been outspoken and militant defenders of both moral uprightness and the tenets of the Catholic faith for years. Each has been moved to their present Sees for precisely that reason - Abp Prendergast from Halifax to Ottawa, the national capital, and Abp Collins from Edmonton to Toronto, the largest city - so that their faithfulness could be expressed in a more prominent venue.

Such a broad brush denigration of these men, and cursory dismissal of the prospect of them doing any good, is a vicious slur, and an insult to all faithful Catholics in Canada. And it is shameful.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
I’m trying to make allowances for the evident bitterness in the above, but I am outraged at the slur against Archbishops Prendergast and Collins.

These Canadian Metropolitans have been outspoken and militant defenders of both moral uprightness and the tenets of the Catholic faith for years. Each has been moved to their present Sees for precisely that reason - Abp Prendergast from Halifax to Ottawa, the national capital, and Abp Collins from Edmonton to Toronto, the largest city - so that their faithfulness could be expressed in a more prominent venue.

Such a broad brush denigration of these men, and cursory dismissal of the prospect of them doing any good, is a vicious slur, and an insult to all faithful Catholics in Canada. And it is shameful.

Blessings,

Gerry
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‘Evident bitterness’ ?? Slurs? Denigration? You’re serious?
 
The Vatican statement also contains an interesting paragraph:
Through this Visitation, the Holy See intends to offer assistance to the Bishops, clergy, religious and **lay faithful **as they seek to respond adequately to the situation caused by the tragic cases of abuse perpetrated by priests and religious upon minors. It is also intended to contribute to the desired spiritual and moral renewal that is already being vigorously pursued by the Church in Ireland.
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(a) I’m wondering in what practical ways the Holy See envisages this Visitation as offering assistance specifically to the lay faithful. What can we expect?

(b) The idea that the Church in Ireland is vigorously pursuing a spiritual and moral renewal is news to me. There’s certainly nothing happening in my diocese. Anyone got a (hopefully) different experience?
 
Yellow_Belle said:
…
(a) I’m wondering in what practical ways the Holy See envisages this Visitation as offering assistance specifically to the lay faithful. What can we expect?

(b) The idea that the Church in Ireland is vigorously pursuing a spiritual and moral renewal is news to me. There’s certainly nothing happening in my diocese. Anyone got a (hopefully) different experience?
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It is not incumbent upon us to demonstrate that the hypothesis is true. If it is to be believed that the process will result in no good, and that the Catholic Church in Ireland is not pursuing a renewal, then it is incumbent upon the proposer to provide substantiation. We’re waiting.

Meanwhile, invocations of racism (they’re all Irish), and the use of the logical fallacy of “tu quoque” (there were problems elsewhere), or social determinism (they went through a similar training process) does not provide anything approaching evidence or proof.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
100%

gh
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Well, I’m sorry if you see it that way but I had no such intent or intentions in my post which sought only to ask a question (what is the Irish Church going to learn from these men?) from an analysis of the known facts: they are all of Irish descent, they are all from countries that did not handle their respective crises particularly well, and they have all been through the type of seminary training that they are now investigating. How is any of that a slur, a denigration or an insult? And I did not specifically mention the Canadian bishops (about whom I know nothing) so why you are taking umbrage on their behalf is a mystery to me.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Well, I’m sorry if you see it that way but I had no such intent or intentions in my post which sought only to ask a question (what is the Irish Church going to learn from these men?) from an analysis of the known facts: they are all of Irish descent, they are all from countries that did not handle their respective crises particularly well, and they have all been through the type of seminary training that they are now investigating. How is any of that a slur, a denigration or an insult? And I did not specifically mention the Canadian bishops (about whom I know nothing) so why you are taking umbrage on their behalf is a mystery to me.
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If one does the math, 2 of the 5 bishops mentioned are Canadian, so it is not cogent to suggest that they were unmentioned.

As for the rest, see post 15.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
Gerry_Hunter said:
It is not incumbent upon us to demonstrate that the hypothesis is true. If it is to be believed that the process will result in no good, and that the Catholic Church in Ireland is not pursuing a renewal, then it is incumbent upon the proposer to provide substantiation. We’re waiting.
Meanwhile, invocations of racism (they’re all Irish), and the use of the logical fallacy of “tu quoque” (there were problems elsewhere), or social determinism (they went through a similar training process) does not provide anything approaching evidence or proof.
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Gerry_Hunter said:
If one does the math, 2 of the 5 bishops mentioned are Canadian, so it is not cogent to suggest that they were unmentioned.

As for the rest, see post 15.

Blessings,

Gerry
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You seem determined to be offended and to put the worst construction on my words, so I see no point in continuing to respond to you. And for the first time in several years here at CAF, and very reluctantly since I like to read everyone’s opinions here, I am activating the IGNORE facility
 
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