First EF in Our Parish; No More for Me, Thanks

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DaveBj

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We had a “sung high Mass” this afternoon in our parish; Miss Bonnie, her father, and I attended. I won’t again.

The celebrant was wearing a microphone, but he apparently chose not to use it. The only time he was understandable was when he delivered the homily at the ambo. There were a few other times that you could tell he was speaking, but I couldn’t discern the language, let alone what he was saying. Most of the time there was no voice audible at all.

The choir (three young ladies in black skirts, white blouses, and white mantillas) was audible, but incomprehensible; most of the time they sounded like they were vocalizing sequential vowels to a musical line.

Part of the time I was reminded of the music-less ballet rehearsal scene from Amadeus–steps, gestures, and movements with no clue as to why they were being performed. I was also reminded of the passage where St. Paul was condemning the indiscriminate use of tongues during corporate worship–“Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?” Following the script is impossible if the speaker can’t or won’t be heard. If there was a “Pater Noster,” the priest said it silently to himself. Likewise, there was no benediction–only “Ite missa est.”

If this is the EF, then I’d rather not, thank you. I’ll take the reverent OF Masses that our parish has, or that the OLAM Shrine has.

DaveBj
 
It doesn’t sound from your description like it was a sung Mass.

What is the name of the parish and the priest?

What was the sermon (not homily) about?
 
Each mass done properly is beautiful and meaningful to attend. My personal preference is the Novus Ordo, done properly. Which my pastor does.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
I don’t consider myself a traditionalist but I prefer the EF. It’s impossible for me to pray at an OF, but that’s me.
 
At every Missa Cantata that I have been to the Pater Noster is sung quite audibly. Also, there are indeed many prayers that the priest will say which are delibertly said in a low voice (whisper) or the prayer is said while a proper is being sung. It certainly is not impossible to follow along with the “script” (Missal), I do so at every mass. When this happens one can either follow along with the proper, or use their missal which has notes describing the priests actions and these actions help to determine which prayer is being said.

I also assure you that the priest knew exactly what each of the actions meant (each action has a rich meaning) and knew what the prayers meant - I believe the priest would be quite offended if you said otherwise. Also, Latin is certainly not an indiscriminate use of tongues, but rather the language of Holy Mother Church and the official language of the Novus Ordo (though modern practice would suggest otherwise).

The EF takes a little work to be followed, but given the nature of NO, I can see why that would offend regular NO attendees.
 
DaveBj said:
We had a “sung high Mass” this afternoon in our parish; Miss Bonnie, her father, and I attended. I won’t again.

The celebrant was wearing a microphone, but he apparently chose not to use it. The only time he was understandable was when he delivered the homily at the ambo. There were a few other times that you could tell he was speaking, but I couldn’t discern the language, let alone what he was saying. Most of the time there was no voice audible at all.

The choir (three young ladies in black skirts, white blouses, and white mantillas) was audible, but incomprehensible; most of the time they sounded like they were vocalizing sequential vowels to a musical line.

Part of the time I was reminded of the music-less ballet rehearsal scene from Amadeus–steps, gestures, and movements with no clue as to why they were being performed. I was also reminded of the passage where St. Paul was condemning the indiscriminate use of tongues during corporate worship–“Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?” Following the script is impossible if the speaker can’t or won’t be heard. If there was a “Pater Noster,” the priest said it silently to himself. Likewise, there was no benediction–only “Ite missa est.”

If this is the EF, then I’d rather not, thank you. I’ll take the reverent OF Masses that our parish has, or that the OLAM Shrine has.

DaveBj
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You have not indicated how familiar you are with the EF so if I am off base, I apologize.

First of all, thank you for attending the EF and “Giving it a Chance”.
Secondly, it sounds as though this was either not a very well presented mass, or that you are not familiar enough with the rubrics of the EF to truly be able make s judgement as to whether you don’t like the EF, or if you just didn’t like this presentation.

After all, if the first OF mass you ever attended was poorly read, rushed, bad music, etc. would you have gotten an accurate impression of what ALL OF masses are like? Of course not.

Therefore, I’ll ask you to put this bad experience aside, and keep an open mind at least until you can see the EF done in different places and by different priests/choirs etc.

Peace
James
 
GerardP said:
It doesn’t sound from your description like it was a sung Mass.

What is the name of the parish and the priest?

What was the sermon (not homily) about?
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It was advertised as a “sung High Mass.” And the ladies’ trio played a big part. The parish is our home parish, Sacred Heart/Cullman, AL, but I don’t know the priest–he is one of the priests in the diocese who have been trained to do the EF. The sermon/homily/whatever was generalities about Sts. Peter and Paul, in keeping with the celebration of the day.
JRKH said:
You have not indicated how familiar you are with the EF so if I am off base, I apologize.

First of all, thank you for attending the EF and “Giving it a Chance”.
Secondly, it sounds as though this was either not a very well presented mass, or that you are not familiar enough with the rubrics of the EF to truly be able make s judgement as to whether you don’t like the EF, or if you just didn’t like this presentation.

After all, if the first OF mass you ever attended was poorly read, rushed, bad music, etc. would you have gotten an accurate impression of what ALL OF masses are like? Of course not.

Therefore, I’ll ask you to put this bad experience aside, and keep an open mind at least until you can see the EF done in different places and by different priests/choirs etc.

Peace
James
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As a 3-year-old convert, my experience is limited, to say the least. However, when EWTN broadcast their first EF Mass back in September, we taped the re-broadcast (I had a surgical procedure, and anyway the live broadcast was glitched by the weather) and then we watched it later. Suffice it to say that there was a WORLD of difference between that Mass and today’s.

DaveBj
 
DaveBj said:
It was advertised as a “sung High Mass.” And the ladies’ trio played a big part. The parish is our home parish, Sacred Heart/Cullman, AL, but I don’t know the priest–he is one of the priests in the diocese who have been trained to do the EF. The sermon/homily/whatever was generalities about Sts. Peter and Paul, in keeping with the celebration of the day.

As a 3-year-old convert, my experience is limited, to say the least. However, when EWTN broadcast their first EF Mass back in September, we taped the re-broadcast (I had a surgical procedure, and anyway the live broadcast was glitched by the weather) and then we watched it later. Suffice it to say that there was a WORLD of difference between that Mass and today’s.

DaveBj
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It is my understanding that the priests who offer the EF which you saw via EWTN are from the FSSP. They do have experience with this form of Mass since the EF is their specialization. This would account for the difference.

The priest who offered the EF in your parish may just need a bit of time to gain experience.
 
It sounds like the liturgy wasn’t done properly.

The important thing, though, is to pray the Mass and offer the Sacrifice. If you pray the prayers of the Mass, and unite your intentions with those of the priest, you should be able to discern a significant improvement from the new Mass - especially in the penetential and humble nature of the prayers, their doctrinal exactitude, and their beauty.

This isn’t a matter of taste. The EF is an objectively superior liturgy.
 
Why did you start this post? I’m new to CAF, but it seems like the “Traditional” forum merely serves as a place for Novus Ordo Catholics to vent their grievances and complain about traditionalism.

**
 
Oh, my goodness…a priest offers up a less than stellar EF, and the responses are such as:

*The important thing, though, is to pray the Mass and offer the Sacrifice. If you pray the prayers of the Mass, and unite your intentions with those of the priest, you should be able to discern a significant improvement from the new Mass - especially in the penetential and humble nature of the prayers, their doctrinal exactitude, and their beauty.

This isn’t a matter of taste. The EF is an objectively superior liturgy*

and

The priest who offered the EF in your parish may just need a bit of time to gain experience.

and

Therefore, I’ll ask you to put this bad experience aside, and keep an open mind

and

The EF takes a little work to be followed, but given the nature of NO, I can see why that would offend regular NO attendees.

Yet, if the same priest said a less than stellar OF/NO Mass, the shrieks of “abuse, abuse” would reverberate through the night.

Oh, the hypocracy…:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
 
ethelzguy said:
Oh, my goodness…a priest offers up a less than stellar EF, and the responses are such as:

*The important thing, though, is to pray the Mass and offer the Sacrifice. If you pray the prayers of the Mass, and unite your intentions with those of the priest, you should be able to discern a significant improvement from the new Mass - especially in the penetential and humble nature of the prayers, their doctrinal exactitude, and their beauty.

This isn’t a matter of taste. The EF is an objectively superior liturgy*

and

The priest who offered the EF in your parish may just need a bit of time to gain experience.

and

Therefore, I’ll ask you to put this bad experience aside, and keep an open mind

and

The EF takes a little work to be followed, but given the nature of NO, I can see why that would offend regular NO attendees.

Yet, if the same priest said a less than stellar OF/NO Mass, the shrieks of “abuse, abuse” would reverberate through the night.

Oh, the hypocracy…:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
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Is this post intended to be helpful to the Original Poster somehow?

One of the quotes above comes from my post and I have said repeatedly o this and other forums that I like both forms of the mass EF and OF. I simply did not want this person to make a decision based on this one instance of an obviously poor example of the mass.

As to how others express themselves on the subject of the OF v the EF, why not start another thread.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Is this post intended to be helpful to the Original Poster somehow?

One of the quotes above comes from my post and I have said repeatedly o this and other forums that I like both forms of the mass EF and OF. I simply did not want this person to make a decision based on this one instance of an obviously poor example of the mass.

As to how others express themselves on the subject of the OF v the EF, why not start another thread.

Peace
James
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When others open the door by denigrating the OF/NO, however subtly, I won’t hesitate to walk in.

It is perfectly attainable and practical, to discuss the TLM, without any comparison whatsoever to the OF/NO. Yet, it never seems to happen here.
 
Dauphin said:
It sounds like the liturgy wasn’t done properly.

The important thing, though, is to pray the Mass and offer the Sacrifice. If you pray the prayers of the Mass, and unite your intentions with those of the priest, you should be able to discern a significant improvement from the new Mass - especially in the penetential and humble nature of the prayers, their doctrinal exactitude, and their beauty.

This isn’t a matter of taste. The EF is an objectively superior liturgy.
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That’s your opinion. Actually it is a matter of taste. Since both are valid and permitted, the best one for a person is the one which helps that person to enter into the mystery of Christ’s sacrifice. That varies by person.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
That’s your opinion. Actually it is a matter of taste. Since both are valid and permitted, the best one for a person is the one which helps that person to enter into the mystery of Christ’s sacrifice. That varies by person.
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Gracias 👍
 
ethelzguy said:
Yet, if the same priest said a less than stellar OF/NO Mass, the shrieks of “abuse, abuse” would reverberate through the night.

Oh, the hypocracy…:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
Click to expand...
I don’t think that prayers being said or sung at the wrong volume is a serious abuse.

When abuses happen in the NO, they’re generally done out of direct defiance to the magisterium, not just carelessness. This is why complaint about them is much more vocal.
 
A priest not talking loud enough during his first time celebrating the Mass is not an abuse. Especially if it’s his first time celebrating that Mass and he’s likely nervous. TLM priests probably didn’t say their first NO Masses perfectly, and the laypeople probably had trouble following along at first too.

On the other hand, if somebody said “first NO in our parish and I’m never going back”, they would get two dozen people reminding them that they’re two forms of the same Mass, they’re exactly the same sacrifice, they’re both equal, etc.
 
Claire_from_DE said:
That’s your opinion. Actually it is a matter of taste. Since both are valid and permitted, the best one for a person is the one which helps that person to enter into the mystery of Christ’s sacrifice. That varies by person.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s my opinion. I also believe it to be the correct opinion. It’s always funny when someone says “that’s your opinion” as if I don’t already know it. How does the fact that it’s my opinion change whether the opinion is correct or incorrect? In reality, this is liberal code language; it means that every opinion is naturally as good as the next, which is absurd.

Simply because both are permitted, this does not mean that the two liturgies are just as good as one another. The two points simply don’t logically flow. There’s absolutely no argument there - your argument requires me to hold liberal assumptions which I simply don’t hold.

The Traditional Latin Mass has objectively superior prayer, which more accurately and fully expounds the Church’s doctrine on the Sacrifice of the Mass, and better express the humility with which we should approach God with our petitions and offerings. If you want to disagree with me, don’t just say “that’s your opinion”. I challenge you to make an argument using reason.
 
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