First EF in Our Parish; No More for Me, Thanks

[Deacon_Ed_B]

So would I. We are talking opinion here. Fact is that yours and mine are different. Thats all. There is nothing objective as to superior liturgy for either form. It is all subjective, whether you accept that small fact or not.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B

What I am saying friend, is that it OK for you to have your taste, as it is OK for me to have mine. I don’t insult yours, Don’t insult mine.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I don’t accept that this is a subjective matter, or purely a matter of taste.

I believe that the prayers of the Traditional Latin Mass expound the doctrine of the Church much more fully and effectively, that they are more humble and penetential, and that the Novus Ordo omits or obscures certain doctrines to its detriment.

I think it’s entirely fair to say that the EF is a superior liturgy, since its prayers are objectively more suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

What I am saying here my friend, is that it OK for me to prefer my liturgy in the Novus Ordo, infinite in merit, Just as it is OK for you to prefer your liturgy, also infinite in merit. As such neither can be superior in either way. You prefer yours, I prefer mine, we are both happy. Thats all
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[peregrinus_WA]

My question is why don’t they try a low EF Mass - And why would this cause you to say EF is not for you? Don’ t blame things that may have gone wrong with “delivery” on the Mass itself.

If you can find one. They seen to be alway High Masses here.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

I agree with this. My experience of the mass prior to Vatican II was mostly the low mass. We had 7 or more masses on Sunday and only one was a high mass.

I think the issue at my parish may be the pastor. Like me, he like symphonic music and he has a tendency to incorporate that into the Mass. Hence, a penchant for the High Mass.

The thing is, I am a symphonic (an most earlier classical music) lover myself. I just do not want it in the Mass

 

[ethelzguy]

Amazing to read the excuses and forgiveness toward any problems with a TLM, while the NO is scrutinized and criticized to the nth degree at every possible opportunity.

 

[ethelzguy]

I don’t accept that this is a subjective matter, or purely a matter of taste.

I think it’s entirely fair to say that the EF is a superior liturgy, since its prayers are objectively more suitable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Never mind what the Pope says…

 

[VivatJesus]

Never mind what the Pope says…

Er, NEWSFLASH Ethelz…you ARE allowed to disagree with the Pope sometimes and still be a Catholic in good standing!!

 

[DaveBj]

DaveBj, it sounds to me like you attended a typical Traditional Latin High Mass. You are not supposed to hear the priest, except when he is at the ambo, or the few times during the Mass when the rubrics require him to raise his voice. However, you should have been able to hear the Pater Noster (perhaps the accoustics in the church are inadequate… you were sitting far back… I don’t know), and there should have been a blessing before the reading of the Last Gospel (unless it is a requiem mass - no blessing).

The music which you described as “vocalizing sequential vowels to a musical line” is called Gregorian Chant. It is what is sung at Traditional Latin High Mass.

I was in the next-to-front row. He was wearing a mike, and he knew he was wearing a mike, but for some reason he didn’t choose to turn it on. I remembered later last night that I also never heard a “Confiteor.” At one point early on, during the extended period of time when nothing was audible and mysterious movements were taking place, the two acolytes who were seated stage right suddenly waved their hands near their hearts three times, and I wondered if that might be the “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” part of the “Confiteor.”

You had no way of knowing this, but I am an old music major, and I know what Gregorian chant is. I have several CDs, mostly of the San Silos monks, and I frequently play them while I am going to sleep and let them play all night. Those texts have consonants in them–there’s actually a “k” and an “r” in “Kyrie;” it doesn’t sound like “ee-ee-eh.”

To the OP, Maybe it was all of their first time too??

No, they’ve been doing this in Huntsville and one other church for several months.

It was not my intention to start and EF vs. OF debate, and y’all that want to do that need to go get a room. As far as I am concerned, they are equally valid in the eyes of Rome, and they are equally valid in my eyes. But if I am to “say ‘amen’ at their giving of thanks,” then I need to know when they are giving thanks. If I am to be confessing “to almighty God and to you, my brothers” that I have sinned, I need to know when they are doing that. I cannot unite myself to prayers that I cannot hear.

DaveBj

 

[laudamus_te]

I was in the next-to-front row. He was wearing a mike, and he knew he was wearing a mike, but for some reason he didn’t choose to turn it on. I remembered later last night that I also never heard a “Confiteor.” At one point early on, during the extended period of time when nothing was audible and mysterious movements were taking place, the two acolytes who were seated stage right suddenly waved their hands near their hearts three times, and I wondered if that might be the “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa” part of the “Confiteor.”

You had no way of knowing this, but I am an old music major, and I know what Gregorian chant is. I have several CDs, mostly of the San Silos monks, and I frequently play them while I am going to sleep and let them play all night. Those texts have consonants in them–there’s actually a “k” and an “r” in “Kyrie;” it doesn’t sound like “ee-ee-eh.”

No, they’ve been doing this in Huntsville and one other church for several months.

It was not my intention to start and EF vs. OF debate, and y’all that want to do that need to go get a room. As far as I am concerned, they are equally valid in the eyes of Rome, and they are equally valid in my eyes. But if I am to “say ‘amen’ at their giving of thanks,” then I need to know when they are giving thanks. If I am to be confessing “to almighty God and to you, my brothers” that I have sinned, I need to know when they are doing that. I cannot unite myself to prayers that I cannot hear.

DaveBj

Well then, it sounds like what you have there is a pretty badly done TLM! That’s a shame.

 

[kleary]

We had a “sung high Mass” this afternoon in our parish; Miss Bonnie, her father, and I attended. I won’t again.

The celebrant was wearing a microphone, but he apparently chose not to use it. The only time he was understandable was when he delivered the homily at the ambo. There were a few other times that you could tell he was speaking, but I couldn’t discern the language, let alone what he was saying. Most of the time there was no voice audible at all.

The choir (three young ladies in black skirts, white blouses, and white mantillas) was audible, but incomprehensible; most of the time they sounded like they were vocalizing sequential vowels to a musical line.

Part of the time I was reminded of the music-less ballet rehearsal scene from Amadeus–steps, gestures, and movements with no clue as to why they were being performed. I was also reminded of the passage where St. Paul was condemning the indiscriminate use of tongues during corporate worship–“Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?” Following the script is impossible if the speaker can’t or won’t be heard. If there was a “Pater Noster,” the priest said it silently to himself. Likewise, there was no benediction–only “Ite missa est.”

If this is the EF, then I’d rather not, thank you. I’ll take the reverent OF Masses that our parish has, or that the OLAM Shrine has.

DaveBj

Congradulations Dave - You have been totally Novus Ordinized…

Try attending Low Mass every Sunday in the front pew every day for a month…then try the High Mass evey Sunday for a month…

Try researching the OF all you can as to why you were not allowed to hear some parts…why that sacred veil is there to keep the sacred hidden from you…

Ken