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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
Read post 278 again. If you disbelieve it, it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate its untruth.
Blessings,
Gerry
First lesbian bishop to be consecrated by Anglican church in America
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Blessings,
Gerry
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nhylan
Guest
you forgot the “I think” or " I believe" before your sentence. The theology behind having only men be priests is shaky at best.
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Padrej
Guest
What follows are your words in which I DO NOT see the words of needing to be “a black woman or a gay to be ordained.”
That is a response not a request for information
Once again you only asked if someone was ordained that year or the following that made said criteria. If you want to muddy the waters please get your story straight. The question was answered directly that a woman was answered whose only “call” was that she played church with dolls as a child and wanted to play church as an adult. So you question has been duly answered.
I was pursuing ordination, because I was called to such. However being I see that you call yourself an “agnostic” I do not believe I should have to justify myself any further as an agnostic by nature would not believe in God to start with. With that in mind, why should you care to even be on this forum to begin with trying to shove your views down believers throats? agnosticism - a (meaning “without”) gnosis (“knowledge”). Agnosticism is the position where one claims they cannot know whether a God or Gods exists.
With that said: Having been around in the hierarchy of the Episcopal church I can tell you for a fact that this move to put Mary Glasspool where she is has nothing to do with theology but is purely political. The American Episcopal Church wants to see how far they can push the Archbishop of Canterbury. They know that he cannot afford to loose the American church because over 80% of his income comes from them. They do not care one wit about the moratorium they agreed to against ordaining practicing homosexuals because it was against scriptures so essentially what they have done is said, we are declared independence from the Anglican Communion and scripture and will do what we bloody well please.
Now Mary was ordained using the old 28 prayer book so these are the vows she would have taken to be a priest.
Bishop. Are you persuaded that the Holy Scriptures contain all Doctrine required as necessary for eternal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ? And are you determined, out of the said Scriptures to instruct the people committed to your charge; and to teach nothing, as necessary to eternal salvation, but that which you shall be persuaded may be concluded and proved by the Scripture?
Answer. I am so persuaded, and have so determined, by God’s grace.
Bishop. Will you then give your faithful diligence always so to minister the Doctrine and Sacraments, and the Discipline of Christ, as the Lord hath commanded, and as this Church hath received the same, according to the Commandments of God; so that you may teach the people committed to your Cure and Charge with all diligence to keep and observe the same?
Answer. I will so do, by the help of the Lord.
Bishop. Will you be ready, with all faithful diligence, to banish and drive away from the Church all erroneous and strange doctrines contrary to God’s Word; and to use both public and private monitions and exhortations, as well to the sick as to the whole, within your Cures, as need shall require, and occasion shall be given?
Answer. I will, the Lord being my helper.
By the highlighted portions she is violating what she vowed to to as a priest. I know to those who are Catholic that God does not call Women but explain Phoebe leading a church in the Bible and Priscilla also. Explain also St. Bridget of Kildair one of the Celtic saints who was a mitered abbess and had the power of consecration and ordination and is recognized by the Orthodox as a saint.
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
“I think” or “I believe” is an appropriate prefix for personal opinions, but is totally inappropriate when quoting the infallible teaching of the Church.
Rather than being “shaky theology,” it is historically sound. God calls His priests as he sees fit. The first group he called were not only exclusively men, but men who were descended from one particular man.
The reason the Church can administer the Sacrament of Holy Orders only to men is because that is an attribute of the Sacrament as she received it. She has not the authority to change it. No theological consideration can give her that authority.
Blessings,
Gerry
Stephen168
New member
We would still like to hear the rock solid theology of ordaining homosexuals; even a small summary.
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nhylan
Guest
if your so interested in the theology behind it go look it up yourself. I’ve told you that the info is available to you, I’m not going to shove it down your throat. You are perfectly welcome to continue your incredibly uncharitable, sarcastic behavior. I welcome knowing that your completely happy in your bubble of misinformation and mal-formed opinion. How can you even form an opinion without knowing all the facts?
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Padrej
Guest
This is one of the few sites I have found on Homosexual theology
drurywriting.com/keith/homo.htm
citizenlink.org/FOSI/homosexuality/theology/A000001540.cfm
I think everyone will find them eye opening as to how the homosexual agenda is to be pushed through and has nothing to do with the authority of scripture.
You will find they are quite political indeed.
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larkin31
Guest
What? Whatever. Nevermind. I think I know the answer now.
What? So, this is what you were told, not that you “had to be a black woman or a gay” to be ordained?
I am not interested in the politics of the Episcopal Church, and have not been commenting on them. Others are free to comment on the ordination vows and this other case in TEC if they would like.
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FrJohnB
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FrJohnB
Guest
If one reads the first link you will plainly see that the “theology” that is supposed to be there is just a political agenda. This is very eye opening. thank you padre you have enlightened us very well.This is one of the few sites I have found on Homosexual theology
drurywriting.com/keith/homo.htm
citizenlink.org/FOSI/homosexuality/theology/A000001540.cfm
I think everyone will find them eye opening as to how the homosexual agenda is to be pushed through and has nothing to do with the authority of scripture.
You will find they are quite political indeed.
Stephen168
New member
Thank You, I was hoping an Episcopalian would help out. I spent an hour trying to find a statement from the TEC (after spending a short time finding out what TEC meant).This is one of the few sites I have found on Homosexual theology
drurywriting.com/keith/homo.htm
citizenlink.org/FOSI/homosexuality/theology/A000001540.cfm
I think everyone will find them eye opening as to how the homosexual agenda is to be pushed through and has nothing to do with the authority of scripture.
You will find they are quite political indeed.
As a Catholic, I would have to say I believe step 12 to be true; the act is a sin like any other. The rest is just political.
Do you believe a statement from the TEC explaining their theology to ordain homosexual exists?
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Padrej
Guest
Statement 12 reads
As to believing a statement exists for explaining their theology in ordaining homosexuals: HMMMM Not written. Spoken yes. When Edmund Browning was Presiding Bishop and wanted to make Jane Dixon Suffragan Bishop of Washington DC there was a point in the service where he asks if there is any notable crime or impediment come forward. There were over 150 objectors. The cannon law of the church requires that the ordination STOP and that all of those objections be heard and settled BEFORE any further action be taken. After the last objector came forth his words were something to the effect of, “I know all of the objections and I am going to proceed anyhow.” Her first act as bishop (Jane Dixon) was to ordain to the diaconate a practicing lesbian whose great “claim to fame” was to wanted to be a single mom so she found 3 men to donate sperm and impregnated herself with a turkey baster. This is what the Episcopal church was holding up as NORMAL Christian behavior for members of the clergy. So to answer the question it is not written to my knowledge but spoken and in action.
Let me say to the readers of this if you find this offensive that I am sorry but I have toned this down a great deal in details and tried to keep it rated G or at least PG. This is a painful subject for me to discuss as it involved a church that I was heavily involved with at the time.
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
George Bernard Shaw once received a manuscript from an aspiring writer, who asked for guidance and feedback. Shaw returned the manuscript to the writer, accompanied by less than encouraging observations.
The writer had used an old trick. He had lightly glued the edges of some of the pages together in the manuscript. He inspected it on return, and found that they had not been separated. He wrote back to Shaw, complaining that he had been treated unfairly, since comments were presented, but the whole manuscript had not been examined.
Shaw sent him back a very brief reply. “You do not have to eat the whole apple to know that it is rotten.”
Blessings,
Gerry
Stephen168
New member
I thought finding a TEC explanation of their theology, to ordain homosexuals, posted on the web was a snipe hunt.
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nhylan
Guest
Google " to set our hope on christ." At this point id give you the link but I’m on my droid.
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Gerry_Hunter
Guest
No need to read past page 8, where it says:
For almost forty years, members of the Episcopal Church
have discerned holiness in same-sex relationships and,
have come to support the blessing of such unions and the
ordination or consecration of persons in those unions.
Christian congregations have sought to celebrate and bless
same-sex unions because these exclusive, life-long, unions
of fidelity and care for each other have been experienced
as holy.
This sets up experience, not Divine Revelation, not the teaching authority of the Church, or anything else, as the determiner of what is Holy. By that criterion, what is to stop any form of “relationship” from being declared as “holy,” if some people make noise to the effect that it is?
It speaks volumes about the state of The Episcopal Church that it would label this as “theology.” Chuck that apple into the compost, forthwith.
Blessings,
Gerry
For almost forty years, members of the Episcopal Church
have discerned holiness in same-sex relationships and,
have come to support the blessing of such unions and the
ordination or consecration of persons in those unions.
Christian congregations have sought to celebrate and bless
same-sex unions because these exclusive, life-long, unions
of fidelity and care for each other have been experienced
as holy.
This sets up experience, not Divine Revelation, not the teaching authority of the Church, or anything else, as the determiner of what is Holy. By that criterion, what is to stop any form of “relationship” from being declared as “holy,” if some people make noise to the effect that it is?
It speaks volumes about the state of The Episcopal Church that it would label this as “theology.” Chuck that apple into the compost, forthwith.
Blessings,
Gerry
Stephen168
New member
Cool, thanks. Any Catholic should have known if they wanted to find out about the “TEC theology of ordaining homosexual priests” to not google any of those words; but google “to set our hope on Christ” instead. I’ll give it a read.
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Padrej
Guest
I agree with you 110% as the document goes on to break with historic interpretation of scripture and label thing in Leviticus as “holiness codes” that could hardly be lived up to today as they were meant to be more for animal husbandry and farming than for humans. GIVE ME A BREAK!!! The document also goes into the interpretation of Greek as being speculative at best in certain areas. If you want the Bible to say something you have to start knocking down historical interpretation and the Biblical Greek first. What is next, saying that you must drive a Honda because the disciples were together in one Accord? We may as well because the Episcopal Church is making the Bible say what it wants.
Sounds very much like this scripture is fulfilling itself
2 Timothy 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
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FrJohnB
Guest
AMEN!!!
:clapping:
Cunningly devised fables is exactly what they are following if you ask me along with teachers who give the people what they want to hear and to heck with what the Bible and the Church has said for centuries on the matter. Is it any wonder the Pope opened the door back to Rome for the Anglicans?
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nhylan
Guest
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