First lesbian bishop to be consecrated by Anglican church in America

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Gerry_Hunter said:
Yes, well I hear that the plumbers and electricians are getting all up in arms, because just as God discriminated against women by not calling any to his priesthood, he discriminated against them by having a carpenter as a foster father to his son.

It’s just amazing what comes to pass when people put human ideas ahead of patterns of divine revelation.

Blessings,

Gerry
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all sarcasm on my part aside gerry. im really racking my brain, trying to think of a non-christian faith that pushes this agenda. other than our liberal Jewish brothers and sistes of course.islam? no. buddhism? no. hinduism? no. satanism? no. no other non-christian faith is pushing to have homosexuals and lesbians lead their movements. if anything. culturally, and historically (except for maybe the greeks and romans) homosexuality has been soundly condemned. and in many parts of the globe it still is. how come these supposedly “ungodly” people realize, that there is something inherently wrong with this, and people who are supposed to be “Godly,” do not? i really find this fascinating. Peace 🙂
 
benidict said:
yes i totally agree! i keep thinking back on all the Jewish priestesses in the o.t. there was----- and there was---- oh and lets not forget to mention high priestess ********* she was awesome:thumbsup: and the apostles. there was apostelette … yep real shaky. especially when we throw Church tradition in there. it really becomes shaky.😉
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Well, this is pretty weak argument for keeping 50% of adult believers out of qualification for priesthood simply because their cultures then were so patriarchal in religious authority and cultural tradition.

If you think that your God actually does not want women to be priests, then I say that your God does not understand women and their potential as leaders, or he/she does but cannot handle it. Paul’s comments about women in the church are some of the craziest things in the NT outside of Revelations.
 
benidict said:
all sarcasm on my part aside gerry. im really racking my brain, trying to think of a non-christian faith that pushes this agenda. other than our liberal Jewish brothers and sistes of course.islam? no. buddhism? no. hinduism? no. satanism? no. no other non-christian faith is pushing to have homosexuals and lesbians lead their movements. if anything. culturally, and historically (except for maybe the greeks and romans) homosexuality has been soundly condemned. and in many parts of the globe it still is. how come these supposedly “ungodly” people realize, that there is something inherently wrong with this, and people who are supposed to be “Godly,” do not? i really find this fascinating. Peace 🙂
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Worldwide religion is not a “progressive” force. It tends to be conservative and resistive of change. Homosexuality has been scorned and shunned for millenia, and some religious precepts have aided this scorn and righteous condemnation. It is not surprising to me at all that only in the progressive groups in the US that this is beginning to change. But it is, and it must begin somewhere, and the change is inevitable. It will be slow, but sexual mores run deep in our psyches. But it is changing and will continue to long after we are dead.
 
larkin31 said:
Well, this is pretty weak argument for keeping 50% of adult believers out of qualification for priesthood simply because their cultures then were so patriarchal in religious authority and cultural tradition.

If you think that your God actually does not want women to be priests, then I say that your God does not understand women and their potential as leaders, or he/she does but cannot handle it. Paul’s comments about women in the church are some of the craziest things in the NT outside of Revelations.
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actually, my friend this is not the case. read genisis. and God created man to his own image. to the image of God he created him. Male And Female he created Them. the star of david, which i hold in high esteem, is a combined upward, and downward traingle. it symbolizes many things. one of which, is male and female combined form the image of the invisible God. Homosexuality makes a mockery of this truth. women are qualified to lead. we read of deborah, in judges. we read of esther. men and women have different functions in the balance of things. to upset that balance is destructive and chaotic. my God understands women perfectly. he even elevated one to be queen of heaven. so it has nothing to do with being anti woman. and if im not mistaken. the child is deemed to be Jewish based on their Mothers background, not their Fathers. it goes deeper than just mere cultural factors. peace 🙂
 
larkin31 said:
Worldwide religion is not a “progressive” force. It tends to be conservative and resistive of change. Homosexuality has been scorned and shunned for millenia, and some religious precepts have aided this scorn and righteous condemnation. It is not surprising to me at all that only in the progressive groups in the US that this is beginning to change. But it is, and it must begin somewhere, and the change is inevitable. It will be slow, but sexual mores run deep in our psyches. But it is changing and will continue to long after we are dead.
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and there will be conservative independants much like myself who will oppose this long after we are dead:D lol! peace 🙂
 
Lion_of_Narnia said:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; if Henry VIII had been given a vision of the last Lambeth conference (and certainly of this monstrosity), Mr. Tudor, upon getting off the boat at Calais, would have walked barefoot to Rome, doing the last few miles on his knees, to give submission to the Pope!
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I’m quite certain that if good ole Henry had thought that the new Suffragan Bishop could bare him a son, he would have married her, lesbian or not.
 
benidict said:
actually, my friend this is not the case. read genisis. and God created man to his own image. to the image of God he created him. Male And Female he created Them. the star of david, which i hold in high esteem, is a combined upward, and downward traingle. it symbolizes many things. one of which, is male and female combined form the image of the invisible God. Homosexuality makes a mockery of this truth. women are qualified to lead. we read of deborah, in judges. we read of esther. men and women have different functions in the balance of things. to upset that balance is destructive and chaotic. my God understands women perfectly. he even elevated one to be queen of heaven. so it has nothing to do with being anti woman. and if im not mistaken. the child is deemed to be Jewish based on their Mothers background, not their Fathers. it goes deeper than just mere cultural factors. peace 🙂
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This line about women having balance in religious hierarchy is a bunch of baloney. No they don’t, and the “Queen of heaven” does not mean a thing to women on earth who have a religious calling to lead. This is like telling blacks that they have a role of “balance” in a bus company by being the drivers but never by being allowed to earn their way up to the board of directors. That would upset the “natural balance.” :rolleyes:

The RCC will view women as equal in religious power and leadership ONLY when they allow women to be priests, bishops, and pope. And not before. The only thing that would be “upset” by allowing them in is the traditional sense of patriarchy. Just admit it: Judaism and Christianity were based on patriarchal religious and secular cultures.
 
benidict said:
and if im not mistaken. the child is deemed to be Jewish based on their Mothers background, not their Fathers. it goes deeper than just mere cultural factors. peace 🙂
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No you are quite right. A child is considered a Jew if the mother is a Jew. I’m fairly certain that there is a practical reason for this. One is always certain about who the mother is, but who the father is can be questionable.
 
Gandhi’s peaceful resistance was progressive, the abolitionist movement in the North was a Christian, especially Episcopalian, movement, the Civil Rights movement was led by highly religious folks like King, Christians participated in the suffragette movement, the Catholic Church has led (and I disagree with her on this) a campaign to support illegal immigrants and turn a blind eye to illegal immigration, the Catholic Church has fought for universal health care, Buddhist monks set themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam and fight for peace, the Catholic Church has played a huge part in liberation theology in South America, etc. I think religion can be extremely progressive…
larkin31 said:
Worldwide religion is not a “progressive” force. It tends to be conservative and resistive of change. Homosexuality has been scorned and shunned for millenia, and some religious precepts have aided this scorn and righteous condemnation. It is not surprising to me at all that only in the progressive groups in the US that this is beginning to change. But it is, and it must begin somewhere, and the change is inevitable. It will be slow, but sexual mores run deep in our psyches. But it is changing and will continue to long after we are dead.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Gandhi’s peaceful resistance was progressive, the abolitionist movement in the North was a Christian, especially Episcopalian, movement, the Civil Rights movement was led by highly religious folks like King, Christians participated in the suffragette movement, the Catholic Church has led (and I disagree with her on this) a campaign to support illegal immigrants and turn a blind eye to illegal immigration, the Catholic Church has fought for universal health care, Buddhist monks set themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam and fight for peace, the Catholic Church has played a huge part in liberation theology in South America, etc. I think religion can be extremely progressive…
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I meant “progressive” about its own values and change from within. I do do admit exceptions, even to that. But you are correct in terms of these external topics.
 
larkin31 said:
What are you talking about?
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comparing what is going on with womens ordination, and the homosexual ordination.( religious change.) with the ministry of Jesus, and the change he brought about, just doesnt make sense to me. maybe i misunderstood your post. if so i apologize. Peace
 
Padrej said:
Quite frankly I do not know why anyone in the Episcopal church has any right to complain. They claim they want to be “inclusive” but yet drive those who are Bible believing and conservative from their ranks. They have ordained practicing homosexuals for a while and got NO REAL flack until recently so they feel a precedent has been set. The people in the pews have remained silent as to what the bishops and others in the hierarchy are dong so they feel they can do just about anything now and get away with it. They are more concerned with being politically correct than spiritually correct and nobody in the laity speaks up, let alone those in the clergy because they are threatened with having their pensions stripped from them if they go against the establishment.

They know if people leave for the more conservative Anglican branches that they are continually infighting for power so who will take them seriously. So as far as I am concerned the laity and those complaining have nobody to blame but themselves because they will do nothing but grouse for a while and shut up and let the presiding bishop have her way. You wanted political correctness, you got it.
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I think you have a really bad understanding of the polity of TEC. The House of Deputies, which is on equal standing in The General Convention as the House of Bishops, is composed of ordained and laity. 8 members from each of the 109 diocese are elected by those appointed by their congregations to the Diocese conventions. There is strong lay leadership. So please don’t misrepresent that the poor laity are suffering at the hands of the evil bishops. It’s a representative democracy. This is truly a time where the sensus fidelium is an active participant.
 
Mikeoffaith said:
No you are quite right. A child is considered a Jew if the mother is a Jew. I’m fairly certain that there is a practical reason for this. One is always certain about who the mother is, but who the father is can be questionable.
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hi mike. thank you. and Jewish women play a very important part in their households. moreso than people probably know. including the religious custom of lighting the Sabbath candles, and reciting the prayers. Peace.🙂
 
benidict said:
comparing what is going on with womens ordination, and the homosexual ordination.( religious change.) with the ministry of Jesus, and the change he brought about, just doesnt make sense to me. maybe i misunderstood your post. if so i apologize. Peace
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My point is that your savior modeled and asked for religious change. Doing so is not anathema to Christianity; it is at the core of its beginnings. Change itself is not wrong. I don’t understand why anyone would argue against change simply because it is “change.”
 
larkin31 said:
My point is that your savior modeled and asked for religious change. Doing so is not anathema to Christianity; it is at the core of its beginnings. Change itself is not wrong. I don’t understand why anyone would argue against change simply because it is “change.”
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my savior did not model nor ask that a sexual practice that is completely against the word of God, tradition, and nature, be viewed as normal, holy, wholesome or good. what is going on here is not religious change, it is spiritual anarchy. with freedom comes responsibilty. and people who should know this, are disreguarding it. Peace 🙂
 
benidict said:
my savior did not model nor ask that a sexual practice that is completely against the word of God, tradition, and nature, be viewed as normal, holy, wholesome or good. what is going on here is not religious change, it is spiritual anarchy. with freedom comes responsibilty. and people who should know this, are disreguarding it. Peace 🙂
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There is a lot that Jesus did not discuss.

But he did discuss love, even love for undesirables, even charity of spirit toward adulterers about to be executed. I don’t remember that Jesus ever addressed homosexuality in any form.

And yes, it is too spiritual change.
 
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