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ConstantineTG
Guest
A Latinization or is it really celebrated in Eastern Churches?
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
It is really an adaptation to the tradition of First Communion.
In my parishe, children of all ages come to receive Holy Communion until the age of about seven when they must attend Confession.
There is a great event in the parish at that time with “First Confession and Solemn Holy Communion.”
This isn’t practiced in the Orthodox Churches, but there is a great benefit in having young people prepared catechetically for this etc.
We don’t catechize enough which is why our Church, Latin or Greek, looks the way it does today.
I would suggest that everyone goes through the full RCIA program, convert or not. I’ve seen lack-lustre Catholics go through that program for any number of reasons who come out totally changed e.g. praying like there’s no tomorrow, attending Church, being involved in charitable works etc.
The crisis of our Church today is that we don’t do any spiritual “boot camp.” In Thailand, for example, everyone must spend one year in a Buddhist monastery. Most don’t remain there, but they leave equipped to follow their religion for the rest of their lives.
While that won’t be practical for Catholics and Orthodox, an adult catechesis like the RCIA is a must, period.
Alex
In my parishe, children of all ages come to receive Holy Communion until the age of about seven when they must attend Confession.
There is a great event in the parish at that time with “First Confession and Solemn Holy Communion.”
This isn’t practiced in the Orthodox Churches, but there is a great benefit in having young people prepared catechetically for this etc.
We don’t catechize enough which is why our Church, Latin or Greek, looks the way it does today.
I would suggest that everyone goes through the full RCIA program, convert or not. I’ve seen lack-lustre Catholics go through that program for any number of reasons who come out totally changed e.g. praying like there’s no tomorrow, attending Church, being involved in charitable works etc.
The crisis of our Church today is that we don’t do any spiritual “boot camp.” In Thailand, for example, everyone must spend one year in a Buddhist monastery. Most don’t remain there, but they leave equipped to follow their religion for the rest of their lives.
While that won’t be practical for Catholics and Orthodox, an adult catechesis like the RCIA is a must, period.
Alex
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ciero
Guest
I could never understand why we “celebrate” first confessions.
Oh boy my child is a sinner!! Lets have a party!
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
To teach our little ones the joy of approaching Confession to be reconciled to God and Christ truly is a time for a party!!
I would even play the Royal Wedding video by The Other Guys . . .
Alex
I would even play the Royal Wedding video by The Other Guys . . .
Alex
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Biedrik
Guest
Perhaps because it’s a joy to have your child’s sins forgiven?I could never understand why we “celebrate” first confessions.
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Stephentlig
Guest
Is confession in UGCC celebrated the same as in Roman?
Such as the same formulatic procedure? Like ‘‘bless me father for I have sinned its been a week since my last confession’’ and then the same act of contrition and so on. And does the priest say the same prayers of absolution as the Roman?
Christ has Risen
Stephen
Such as the same formulatic procedure? Like ‘‘bless me father for I have sinned its been a week since my last confession’’ and then the same act of contrition and so on. And does the priest say the same prayers of absolution as the Roman?
Christ has Risen
Stephen
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5Loaves
Guest
Are there Orthodox who practice this?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I don’t know.
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ciero
Guest
In my opinion that is an excuse for a terrible Latinization. Even the Roman Catholics don’t have a party when their kids go to confession for the first time. We don’t have the First Communion so we need an excuse to throw the kids a party, plain and simple. Outside of the very Latinized ACROD do you see this happening in the Orthodox world? NO. When a kid is ready to approach the priest for confession he does it privately with no fan fare. To have a party for first confession in my opinion sends the wrong message to the child.To teach our little ones the joy of approaching Confession to be reconciled to God and Christ truly is a time for a party!!
I would even play the Royal Wedding video by The Other Guys . . .
Alex
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Another question that formed in my mind, at what point do we say this is a Latinization or just an inculturation of the North American culture? Because its being done by Roman Catholic Churches in North America, the expectation now is that all Catholic Rites should do it.
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5Loaves
Guest
You replied to my earlier query that you “don’t know” if Orthodox are doing this. I’m unaware of it being a practice in Orthodoxy, tho ciero says it can be found some in ACROD.
If our mother churches in Orthodoxy are not doing it then we ought not. As I recall Fr. Taft has said if we ECCs are not following faithfully the orthodox praxis of our patrimony then we have no justification for existing.
Whose expectation? Not the Holy See. The Second Vatican Council and the Pope then and popes since have all forcefully called the Eastern Catholic Churches to return to a faithful expression of our patrimony.
If our mother churches in Orthodoxy are not doing it then we ought not. As I recall Fr. Taft has said if we ECCs are not following faithfully the orthodox praxis of our patrimony then we have no justification for existing.
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dvdjs
Guest
What do you have against parties? Alex and Beidrik responded well to your odd remark. We celebrate the sacramental forgiveness of sin. It is also conventional to celebrate the reception of other Mysteries: Initiation, Matrimony, Orders.
If you feel the need, you may calibrate your orthodoxy anyway that you want. But as a member of the BCC, what do I care about practices outside of ACROD anyway? Apparently this practice is not heretical or heterodox: it is a practice (if you are correct) of my sister church. What is the problem?
A rite of passage, as one passes into an age of responsibility, that celebrates the great healing gift that treats our spiritual illnesses that is not a bad idea. In the OCA parish that I frequent, there is an invented service to recognize children as they pass to something approaching adulthood - like a quinceanera. I suppose we could rend garments about such ideas, but I really don’t see why.
.I don’t think so. You may like to suggest that we are celebrating sinfulness, but I think everyone else gets it; even every child knows what we are really celebrating
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dvdjs
Guest
As I was writing, a question came to me that I thought I would post in case anyone knows the answer.
In the era of infrequent communion in Eastern Christianity, did (non-confessing) infants and youths commune regularly or did they also refrain from communion?
In the era of infrequent communion in Eastern Christianity, did (non-confessing) infants and youths commune regularly or did they also refrain from communion?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
The expectation of the people of course. Who else.
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ciero
Guest
Even today in churches with infrequent communion infants are almost always brought to communion. In some places infants and children are the only ones to receive.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Let’s hold off on the “hey you are Latinized” stuff for a minute.
The Orthodox Church also has her Latinizations which have endured. For example, the service of the Passia during Lent which some say is derived from the West etc.
The point is that Churches do develop organically and that even when something is borrowed from the West, this too can become an organic (and even useful) thing.
Roman Catholics do indeed have a family party etc. at First Holy Communion!
The First Confession does not end with Confession but with the solemn reception of Holy Communion. Yes, that is a take on “First Holy Communion” but there is nothing wrong with it and the UGCC does have it. Take it up with our patriarch or, if you have the courage, with our parish priest.
We have the “May devotion” that was, in former times, represented in a very Latin way.
My church of St Nicholas in Toronto (which featured in the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”) continues with the May devotion as the people are used to coming to church every day in honour of the Theotokos.
So what does the parish do? They hold a traditional Moleben with full Canon to the Theotokos daily with beautifully sung Akathists on Saturday and Sunday evenings.
The May devotion is quite ingrained in our character so we “Easternize” it, but we do keep it.
My godchildren’s grandparents expect them to be at the May devotions - and they come to me in tears when they don’t attend.
There’s nothing wrong with it, and the Orthodox Church has always made allowance for such devotions when the people are very attached to them. In western Ukraine, the Orthodox Church has Stations of the Cross and Sacred Heart devotions.
The Orthodox Church is willing to adapt - why aren’t you?
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
There are certain Latin-based devotions in regions of BOTH the EC and Orthodox Churches that the PEOPLE (not any cleric or church administration) will insist upon, nomatter what. They can’t be without them and no one, not even the most “Orthodox in communion with Rome” advocate can get rid of them. Easternize them, to be sure. But get rid of them? I know many of those people and if I were an EC priest, I would be afraid to even raise the issue with them.
But one can Easternize those devotions, as St Alexis Toth of Wilkes-Barre was wont to do.
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
First Holy Communion etc. provides an opportunity for catechesis. My Orthodox friends never had that opportunity and, truth be told, their church does not provide any other opportunities with the result that they are now outside the Church and attend only when “Carried, married and buried.”
Alex
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ciero
Guest
You Alex are willing to make excuses for these enduring Latinizations…I am not. There is some thing wrong with it…but you choose to accept and embrace them…I do not.Let’s hold off on the “hey you are Latinized” stuff for a minute.
The Orthodox Church also has her Latinizations which have endured. For example, the service of the Passia during Lent which some say is derived from the West etc.
The point is that Churches do develop organically and that even when something is borrowed from the West, this too can become an organic (and even useful) thing.
Roman Catholics do indeed have a family party etc. at First Holy Communion!
The First Confession does not end with Confession but with the solemn reception of Holy Communion. Yes, that is a take on “First Holy Communion” but there is nothing wrong with it and the UGCC does have it. Take it up with our patriarch or, if you have the courage, with our parish priest.
We have the “May devotion” that was, in former times, represented in a very Latin way.
My church of St Nicholas in Toronto (which featured in the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”) continues with the May devotion as the people are used to coming to church every day in honour of the Theotokos.
So what does the parish do? They hold a traditional Moleben with full Canon to the Theotokos daily with beautifully sung Akathists on Saturday and Sunday evenings.
The May devotion is quite ingrained in our character so we “Easternize” it, but we do keep it.
My godchildren’s grandparents expect them to be at the May devotions - and they come to me in tears when they don’t attend.
There’s nothing wrong with it, and the Orthodox Church has always made allowance for such devotions when the people are very attached to them. In western Ukraine, the Orthodox Church has Stations of the Cross and Sacred Heart devotions.
The Orthodox Church is willing to adapt - why aren’t you?
Alex
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Hesychios
Guest
ACROD does, and I have seen it myself in a Ukrainian Orthodox cathedral in Chicago (right down the street from the OCA cathedral, which does not do this, and almost equally near the UGCC cathedral, which does), I was surprised.
This was the cathedral of Archbishop Vsevolod of Skopelos. Some might remember him for his advocacy of reconciliation and understanding.
Anyway, most of the Ukrainian Orthodox congregations around here (Chicagoland) were founded by Greek Catholics about 100 years ago more or less. Most of their members seem to be more recent immigrants though, the anglophone Ukrainian-Americans seem to go elsewhere. Something tells me that this practice must be still somewhat common in central or western Ukraine among the Orthodox.
ACROD hasn’t been getting immigrants, they seem to be used to doing things a certain way and the EP hasn’t made them change.
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