C
ConstantineTG
Guest
So its more of a Ukrainian tradition than a Latinization?
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D
dvdjs
Guest
Wisdom is vindicated by her children. Show me.You Alex are willing to make excuses for these enduring Latinizations…I am not. There is some thing wrong with it…but you choose to accept and embrace them…I do not.
D
dvdjs
Guest
Just in case you are in the dark: ACROD is not Ukrainian.
K
kitkatty
Guest
Let’s hold off on the “hey you are Latinized” stuff for a minute.
The Orthodox Church also has her Latinizations which have endured. For example, the service of the Passia during Lent which some say is derived from the West etc.
The point is that Churches do develop organically and that even when something is borrowed from the West, this too can become an organic (and even useful) thing.
Roman Catholics do indeed have a family party etc. at First Holy Communion!
The First Confession does not end with Confession but with the solemn reception of Holy Communion. Yes, that is a take on “First Holy Communion” but there is nothing wrong with it and the UGCC does have it. Take it up with our patriarch or, if you have the courage, with our parish priest.
We have the “May devotion” that was, in former times, represented in a very Latin way.
My church of St Nicholas in Toronto (which featured in the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”) continues with the May devotion as the people are used to coming to church every day in honour of the Theotokos.
So what does the parish do? They hold a traditional Moleben with full Canon to the Theotokos daily with beautifully sung Akathists on Saturday and Sunday evenings.
The May devotion is quite ingrained in our character so we “Easternize” it, but we do keep it.
My godchildren’s grandparents expect them to be at the May devotions - and they come to me in tears when they don’t attend.
There’s nothing wrong with it, and the Orthodox Church has always made allowance for such devotions when the people are very attached to them. In western Ukraine, the Orthodox Church has Stations of the Cross and Sacred Heart devotions.
The Orthodox Church is willing to adapt - why aren’t you?
Alex
H
Hesychios
Guest
No, where it appears among Orthodox, it seems to be among people who had ancestors in the Union of Brest (Poland) or the Union of Uzhorod (Hungary).
For example (if you can see it), here is a map of Poland showing the border changes over time. The kingdom once had quite a reach across Ukraine, although east of Kiev that did not last very long. The Union of Brest was inked in 1595 of 1596, which borders are not shown here.
The Synod of Zamosc was in 1720, the practice we are discussing here may date from that period, or it may have spread gradually over time.
http://www.staypoland.com/images/mapa-historyczna_en.jpg
V
Vico
Guest
The Union of Lublin:
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C
ConstantineTG
Guest
The post I quoted was also talking about the Ukrainian Orthodox who also has the tradition, thus my question.Just in case you are in the dark: ACROD is not Ukrainian.
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Ciero,
I’m not making excuses for anything - come and visit our parishes who have this tradition and tell them they should stop and see their reaction .
As others have said here, there are Orthodox jurisdictions who likewise have this tradition, OK, as carry-overs from their EC days (“daze?”).
And so what? In his book “Bogomater,” Prof. Poselianin lists dozens of places in Eastern Europe, former EC parishes now Orthodox, that continue with their practice of “Vidpusts” (originally an “indulgenced pilgrimage”) to their locally-venerated Theotokos icons. And he explains that these places were formerly Greek Catholic.
There is an Orthodox miraculous icon in Horodyschenke which is a picture of Our Lady of Mt Carmel - the Orthodox venerate it as “the Scapular Mother of God” (sic).
Stations of the Cross in Orthodox churches? Absolutely. I could go on, but I don’t want to anger or frustrate you more than necessary .
The idea that there is a “pure de-Latinized” Orthodox/EC tradition is simply a non-entity. A number of those Latin traditions are so ingrained in our people that they will never be divested of them.
That’s a fact.
Alex
I’m not making excuses for anything - come and visit our parishes who have this tradition and tell them they should stop and see their reaction
.As others have said here, there are Orthodox jurisdictions who likewise have this tradition, OK, as carry-overs from their EC days (“daze?”).
And so what? In his book “Bogomater,” Prof. Poselianin lists dozens of places in Eastern Europe, former EC parishes now Orthodox, that continue with their practice of “Vidpusts” (originally an “indulgenced pilgrimage”) to their locally-venerated Theotokos icons. And he explains that these places were formerly Greek Catholic.
There is an Orthodox miraculous icon in Horodyschenke which is a picture of Our Lady of Mt Carmel - the Orthodox venerate it as “the Scapular Mother of God” (sic).
Stations of the Cross in Orthodox churches? Absolutely. I could go on, but I don’t want to anger or frustrate you more than necessary
.The idea that there is a “pure de-Latinized” Orthodox/EC tradition is simply a non-entity. A number of those Latin traditions are so ingrained in our people that they will never be divested of them.
That’s a fact.
Alex
C
ciero
Guest
Be that as it may…it dosent make it right…nor should it be condoned!Dear Ciero,
I’m not making excuses for anything - come and visit our parishes who have this tradition and tell them they should stop and see their reaction
As others have said here, there are Orthodox jurisdictions who likewise have this tradition, OK, as carry-overs from their EC days (“daze?”).
And so what? In his book “Bogomater,” Prof. Poselianin lists dozens of places in Eastern Europe, former EC parishes now Orthodox, that continue with their practice of “Vidpusts” (originally an “indulgenced pilgrimage”) to their locally-venerated Theotokos icons. And he explains that these places were formerly Greek Catholic.
There is an Orthodox miraculous icon in Horodyschenke which is a picture of Our Lady of Mt Carmel - the Orthodox venerate it as “the Scapular Mother of God” (sic).
Stations of the Cross in Orthodox churches? Absolutely. I could go on, but I don’t want to anger or frustrate you more than necessary
The idea that there is a “pure de-Latinized” Orthodox/EC tradition is simply a non-entity. A number of those Latin traditions are so ingrained in our people that they will never be divested of them.
That’s a fact.
Alex
D
dvdjs
Guest
What are your criteria of “right” and “wrong”. What is the objective basis of these criteria?
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