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It appears that, as an Orthodox Catholic Christian, I am not really “Catholic”, at least not here, anyway. Someone earlier made the distinction between Big “C” catholic, and little “c” catholic. When I recite the Nicene Creed, somehow or other I don’t hear that distinction. Despite what the moderators and admin people here say, I am an Orthodox Catholic Christian.

Oh well.

Seems that this thread is the most active one on the new sub-forum. Hmmm…interesting. Well, not very, really.

For now, for all intents and purposes, I am gone from here. I’ll probably lurk and see how things develop, but I am not particularly optimistic. (Btw, anyone familiar with www.byzcath.net ? They even have a, yes, you guessed it, forum! Not nearly as exciting or interesting as this one used to be, though. Oh well.)

The up side, for me, at least, is that I will probably be able to devote more time to prayer and spiritual reading. And that is a very wonderful up side! So, blessings come in all shapes, sizes, and disguises, eh? 👍

See y’all around. Or not.

Many blessings,
Jeff
 
Fr_Ambrose said:
Obadiah is going through a bad patch right now and needs the support of prayer. You will remember that about 10 days ago he announced that he had left the Orthodox Church (and his criticisms were pretty tough.)

I shan’t say any more since this is not the time nor place. But I want to say to Obadiah that 1) you should tone down the tone and 2) I am praying for you.
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Dear Father Ambrose,
We do have an ongoing prayer request thread, which you have known about and I had, as when I was new and nieve I invited others all to, ignorant as I was. Not really thinking it makes a diff but I not really needed an answer, I like to pray for all. Obadiah asked me once to pray (you can check my posts) I thought about asking him why he wasn’t but he has much respect for you, can I interfere with this? and he should know I did, as we all are, so thank you for reminding us to do so, also pray.

I think a hand is being extended in peace to join as Eastern "Catholics " -Western "Catholics " and we respect your initiative, and wisdom,
We would be sad to see you leave. :o
I would be sadder.😦 😦

D.
 
Fr_Ambrose said:
This puts us in a bind since at the Liturgy and at morning prayers we proclaim that we are members of the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.”
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according to this website,

its proclaimed:
Code: 
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church;
Which is the distinction I believe the forum administrator wish to make. And rightfully so.

I am an orthodox Catholic, not an Orthodox Catholic. The latter is confusing and doesn’t say who you are affiliated with.
 
ziggernaut said:
It appears that, as an Orthodox Catholic Christian, I am not really “Catholic”, at least not here, anyway. Someone earlier made the distinction between Big “C” catholic, and little “c” catholic. When I recite the Nicene Creed, somehow or other I don’t hear that distinction. Despite what the moderators and admin people here say, I am an Orthodox Catholic Christian.

Oh well.

Seems that this thread is the most active one on the new sub-forum. Hmmm…interesting. Well, not very, really.

For now, for all intents and purposes, I am gone from here. I’ll probably lurk and see how things develop, but I am not particularly optimistic. (Btw, anyone familiar with www.byzcath.net ? They even have a, yes, you guessed it, forum! Not nearly as exciting or interesting as this one used to be, though. Oh well.)

The up side, for me, at least, is that I will probably be able to devote more time to prayer and spiritual reading. And that is a very wonderful up side! So, blessings come in all shapes, sizes, and disguises, eh? 👍

See y’all around. Or not.

Many blessings,
Jeff
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Excuse me, but I meant the little "c " was for the protestant
Catholic will always be a big “C”
Catholics are Catholics and I will also always be proud of it.

D.
 
HailMary said:
according to this website,

its proclaimed:
Code: 
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church;
Which is the distinction I believe the forum administrator wish to make. And rightfully so.

I am an orthodox Catholic, not an Orthodox Catholic. The latter is confusing and doesn’t say who you are affiliated with.
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I can’t help but wonder if the fathers of the first council made this distinction.
 
wannabee said:
Excuse me BUT

I was sick and tired of RCs coming in and telling us that we ECs were not doing things properly - we didn’t say the Rosary in public - WRONG they said ,

We didn’t have Eucharistic Adoration - there’s nothing better they said. That’s wrong too .

It’s no wonder that things went from bad to worse - we Eastern folk were getting battered by RCs

I understand how our Orthodox Brethren feel about this .
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I agree.

People are in quite the uproar about Orthodox “trashing” Catholic belief and doctrine, yet they rarely acknowledge those Latins who barged in and denounced the mutual traditions of the EC and EO. We chide the Orthodox for attacking the Catholic Church but yet leave the Latins who do even more damage by attacking those within their communion and out of a free ticket. Please also notice that often time the Orthodox were simply responding to the “discussions” made by El_Camino, Kallistos_Mercy and the like (they know who there are). And our response is to kick the Orthodox out? Who is going to help us defend our traditions now with the Orthodox have their words restricted in this sub-forum?

This is a Catholic forum, Catholics have a right to defend themselves, moderating should have been enforced, but treating the symptoms doesn’t cure the disease. Charity is needed on all parts, and by restricting one venerable community we have done the opposite.

Peace and God Bless!
 
How exactly is one able to say “catholic” versus “Catholic” when we recite the creed? Is there a special inflection I am unaware of? :confused:
 
yeshua said:
And our response is to kick the Orthodox out? Who is going to help us defend our traditions now with the Orthodox have their words restricted in this sub-forum?
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Yet you are still here aren’t you? I am glad you are. What I see as kicked out is the violation of the rule to not proselytize. All one has to do is stop trying to pry Catholics or Orthodox from their Church. Civil and charitable dialogue over the disparities is still allowed. It seems if it has to be civil and charitable though many want no part in it. I don’t think they understand yet.

The only thing that seems to be restricted is double speak. If your Orthodox and non-catholic then why would you want to convince anyone that you’re Catholic? It’s deceptive to yourself and others. There is only one way to do that and that is to ascend to the teachings of the united Eastern and Western multi ritual Catholic Church. Otherwise you’re in schism or in protest or we are if that is your perspective. Never the less the defining terms are Catholic and Orthodox.
This is a Catholic forum, Catholics have a right to defend themselves, moderating should have been enforced, but treating the symptoms doesn’t cure the disease. Charity is needed on all parts, and by restricting one venerable community we have done the opposite.
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The more polemics were fruitless the more some resorted to stronger tactics (on both sides) and often got out of hand. Yes charity is needed on all fronts and I think it was encouraged by moderation toward all equally but they have a limited staff. If you mean by “one venerable community is restricted” to charity then I say amen, so be it even though I see that restriction as completely equal. I think we should restrict ourselves to charity.

If you’re wondering how you defend your faith without being polemical or perceived as proselytizing there has already been some good answers to that question in the past day or so that shouldn’t be to hard to find.

Peace.
 
Well … I’m probably speaking out of turn, but I’m going to miss the Eastern Christianity forum. 😦 The people there have always been wonderfully kind, and their explanations of their faith have always enriched my understanding - sometimes as a comparison to my beliefs, sometimes as an enhancement, but always fascinating for me. (and since I am, in fact, still working out what my beliefs really are, this has forced me to think and study a great deal - another good thing!)

I do hope that those of you that spent time in the Eastern Christianity forum still feel as welcome here at CAF, because I think your presence is valuable to us all.

:blessyou:
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I thank you for making a change in the Forum. I have read and observed the discussions made in Eastern Christianity. To my dismay, I have seen our Eastern Orthodox Christian brothers and sisters resort to fights rather than dialogue and bring into the light the possible union between East and West Christendom.
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From everything I’ve seen, I don’t think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.
 
Ignatius said:
From everything I’ve seen, I don’t think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.
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Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

For me their desertion of the thread only substantiates an intent to proselytize. One they may not have recognized perhaps.

Thankfully we have Eastern Catholics who continue to contribute. They may be the last bastion toward union with the entire east as they share the best of both worlds.

Peace.
 
The EO are not Catholics in the sense that it is used by the Catholic Church: to be Catholic is to be in communion with or in Union with Rome.

The EO are, by their own choice, neither.

They have chosen a very narrow view of orthodoxis and orthopraixis, and in so doing rejected the universality of the Church both in Ecclesiastical and other matters.

The Catholic church has extended communion with the EO as is. Only their own choice to remain non-catholic on the matter prevents this.

True union, well, that’s always been available. Still is. And communion doesn’t require union, in the case of the EO and OO. It already exists with the ACE.

So the EO calling themselves Catholic is a direct and obvious lack of truth, and calling themselves catholic is a stretch of credulity as a general rule.

Not that some Orthodox are not Catholic in the church’s sense… but by the same token, they are not fully orthodox according to the concensus of the EO, either.

They are our brothers, but until they seek to be catholic as a group, they should avoid the term for the misrepresentation it makes of them as being in some form of union with Rome.

As an Antiochene priest once said, “… it implies a union that is not real yet.”
 
Aramis said:
The Catholic church has extended communion with the EO as is. Only their own choice to remain non-catholic on the matter prevents this.

And communion doesn’t require union, in the case of the EO and OO.

As an Antiochene priest once said, “… it implies a union that is not real yet.”
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You may not realize this, but even your allowance of us to receive Holy Communion in your Church is yet another reason why we cannot be in union. This is another reason because it is a doctrinal innovation to teach that someone who is a material heretic and/or schismatic is able to receive Holy Communion. The ancient Christian teaching is that the Holy Gifts of the Body and Blood of Christ are only for the Holy People of God, who are faithful members of the Church. What the Antiochian priest said is very apropos and it applies equally to the highest realization of unity with God and the Church - Holy Communion. Your Church has changed ancient Christian doctrine by affirming that unfaithful members of the Church (which is what your Church considers the Orthodox to be) are elgible to receive Holy Communion. As long as your Church continues to innovate the Tradition like this, unity is *very *far away.

God bless,

Adam

P.S. I hope this post didn’t offend the purposes of this forum. If it did, I promise not to post such “apologetic” statements on the Eastern Catholicism forum again. I just felt like clarifying why we don’t respond to the Roman and Eastern-rite Catholic allowance of the Orthodox to receive Holy Communion in their Church.
 
So, as I understand this now, we in the “Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East” (a canonical name of our communion), which has never ceased referring to itself as the “Catholic Church” must now refrain from using the term “Orthodox Catholic” (itself an accommodation to those in the communion of the Church of Rome which also appropriates the name “Catholic Church”). Even “Eastern Orthodox” is a western derived term and technically foreign to us. I guess we *could *consider ourselves “Catholic Not in Communion with Rome”? Probably not.
To me, our participation here under this new requirement (and home in NCR) is tantamount to our saying that the Communion of Rome is correct and we are wrong. That I cannot do.
 
Aristokles

Some of here understand your problem and we really do sympathise .

Sadly there is little I can do about it other than post as I am doing.

I have seen photographs of foundation stones for temples which do indeed indicate that you are truly Orthodox Catholics .

I’m sorry that this situation has arisen

For what they are worth - you and the others have my prayers
 
ForeverAdam said:
You may not realize this, but even your allowance of us to receive Holy Communion in your Church is yet another reason why we cannot be in union. This is another reason because it is a doctrinal innovation to teach that someone who is a material heretic and/or schismatic is able to receive Holy Communion. The ancient Christian teaching is that the Holy Gifts of the Body and Blood of Christ are only for the Holy People of God, who are faithful members of the Church. What the Antiochian priest said is very apropos and it applies equally to the highest realization of unity with God and the Church - Holy Communion. Your Church has changed ancient Christian doctrine by affirming that unfaithful members of the Church (which is what your Church considers the Orthodox to be) are elgible to receive Holy Communion. As long as your Church continues to innovate the Tradition like this, unity is *very *far away.

God bless,

Adam

P.S. I hope this post didn’t offend the purposes of this forum. If it did, I promise not to post such “apologetic” statements on the Eastern Catholicism forum again. I just felt like clarifying why we don’t respond to the Roman and Eastern-rite Catholic allowance of the Orthodox to receive Holy Communion in their Church.
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We must consider above all else the example of Jesus our Christ.

First His commands.

Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that has My commandments and keeps them, it is that one who loves Me; and the one that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and will reveal Myself to him.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My Word, and My Father shall love him. And We will come to him and will make a dwelling place with him.
Joh 14:24 The one who does not love Me does not keep My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father who sent Me.
Joh 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you.

Jesus greatest command was to love your neighbor as yourself in that command He said all others are fulfilled.

Mar 12:31 …“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” There is not another commandment greater than these. Lev. 19:18

By denying and refusing communion perhaps the EO do not love themselves properly. Perhaps they themselves have been brought up being beat down and know no other way but to reflect the same in their actions.

Now consider Jesus action in regard to the Eucharist.

Joh 6:51 I am the Living Bread that came down from Heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he will live forever. And indeed the bread which I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Note here Jesus does not say for the life of the correct or pure.

Joh 6:58 This is the Bread which came down out of Heaven, not as your fathers ate the manna and died; the one partaking of this Bread will live forever.

This would imply that with eating of Jesus bread we may live forever. Who are we to deny this to others honestly seeking Jesus in light of Jesus greatest command?

Even Jesus offered the bread to one who was against Him.

Joh 13:18 I do not speak concerning all of you; I know whom I chose out; but that the Scripture might be fulfilled, “The one eating the bread with Me lifted up his heel against Me.” Psa. 41:9

Joh 6:56 The one partaking of My flesh and drinking of My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
Joh 6:60 Then many of His disciples having heard, they said, This Word is hard; who is able to hear it?
Joh 6:61 But knowing in Himself that His disciples were murmuring about this, Jesus said to them, Does this offend you?

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit that gives life. The flesh does not profit, nothing! The Words which I speak to you are spirit and are life.

Joh 6:65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father.

Joh 6:66 From this time many of His disciples went away into the things behind, and no longer walked with Him.

Jesus offered communion to those who rejected it. Jesus offered them the chance to come into life in Him. Since they found the teaching to hard to comprehend they walked away.

This is an exact reflection of the relationship btween the Church and the EO. The Church offers Jesus and the EO walk away.

Peace.
 
A very sad response 😦

I would ask you to remember that these pew books to which everyone keeps referring have , I understand , a comment that those of other communions should abide by their owns Church’s teaching .

I’m sorry my phrasing here is so woolly - but the book I use at Divine Liturgy does not of course have this statement .
 
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