First time at Latin Mass--what to do?

[Luvadoxi]

I do have one, actually, a beautiful veil that I bought online. I’m not sure I’d want to use a rental that had been on someone else’s head…

Anyway, I know women used to all wear hats or veils; I’m thinking it’s more of a sign of the times–like in the Blessed Mother’s time every woman wore a head covering as is done in Muslim countries today. I think that’s why I’m so hesitant…having the powers that be say a woman has to do this. If the magisterium says so, then yes, I’d do it of course. But otherwise, human beings sinful as we are, some men will always want to look at women as people to be dominated and I just get a little nervous about things like this. I don’t deny that we are different, men and women. I just think St. Paul stressed the equal dignity and mutual sacrifice of both husband and wife. I think the covering is a cultural thing, but that’s just me. It does cause me to hesitate about the TLM for fear of encountering rigid attitudes and men who are angry at women in general.

So glad the poster went to the TLM and had a wonderful experience. And yes, I know we’re not there for a “wonderful experience”–every Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. But you know what I mean…

 

[Victorious]

Hi,

First post.

After reading all the threads regarding the Latin Mass, I decided to go for the first time Saturday the 9th of October at St. Catherine in Reseda, CA Fortunately, I didn’t have to drive very far - - it’s only 3 miles away.

My thoughts was that I wasn’t “lost” and I didn’t realize how quiet the prayers were. The ushers provided me with a missal booklet. In any case, I intend to visit St. Therese in Alhambra for a High Mass real soon. It was a great experience, being a Catholic all my life and only hearing what once was before I was born.

!!!

St. Catherine of Siena in Reseda is my home parish!!! I attended the parish school 1st through 8th grade, back when it was run by Dominican sisters! They have the TLM there? Awesome!!!

 

[floresco]

If the magisterium says so, then yes, I’d do it of course. But otherwise, human beings sinful as we are, some men will always want to look at women as people to be dominated and I just get a little nervous about things like this. I don’t deny that we are different, men and women. I just think St. Paul stressed the equal dignity and mutual sacrifice of both husband and wife. I think the covering is a cultural thing, but that’s just me. It does cause me to hesitate about the TLM for fear of encountering rigid attitudes and men who are angry at women in general.

If you look through past discussions of the subject here you will see many women defending the practice of head-covering and writing about how meaningful they find it. The comments from men seem based on a general affinity for traditional practices rather than any anger at women. Head-covering for women is a very old tradition that goes from Bible times until a few decades ago. Of course people (of both sexes) who like tradition are likely to be attracted to it. I see no reason to associate the practice with a rejection of the dignity of women.

 

[malphono]

I’m not sure I’d want to use a rental that had been on someone else’s head…

That would seems to be as bad, if not worse, than wearing rented bowling shoes. shudder :winter:

In any case, keep in mind that there is no longer a law that says a woman must wear a head covering, much less a mantilla, when assisting at the EF. Many ladies do, and there is nothing wrong with keeping that bit of tradition. But other ladies do not, and there’s nothing wrong with that either.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m not sure I’d want to use a rental that had been on someone else’s head…

You’d be surprised how many women don’t mind.

 

[RainingRoses]

Could someone please tell me what the current “correct” missal is for the TLM? I’ve always just used the one provided, but I’ve decided that I’d like to get my own. I’ve seen so many different editions available, though. I say “editions,” but that may be the wrong word – “printings” may be more correct. It seems like there was a lot being published in the late-'50s and early-'60s! Is there a standard? Are they all essentially the same? I would really appreciate the help. Thanks!

P.S. I hope the original poster had a good first TLM experience. In reading through this thread I realize that I’m pretty lucky: TLM is available in my own parish (which is 2 blocks away) on Sundays; and it’s available every day of the week(!) if I want to travel a bit further – 6 or so blocks away

 

[ConstantineTG]

Could someone please tell me what the current “correct” missal is for the TLM? I’ve always just used the one provided, but I’ve decided that I’d like to get my own. I’ve seen so many different editions available, though. I say “editions,” but that may be the wrong word – “printings” may be more correct. It seems like there was a lot being published in the late-'50s and early-'60s! Is there a standard? Are they all essentially the same? I would really appreciate the help. Thanks!

P.S. I hope the original poster had a good first TLM experience. In reading through this thread I realize that I’m pretty lucky: TLM is available in my own parish (which is 2 blocks away) on Sundays; and it’s available every day of the week(!) if I want to travel a bit further – 6 or so blocks away

The 1962 Missal

 

[ProVobis]

Could someone please tell me what the current “correct” missal is for the TLM?

The 1962 is preferable but you should be able to use St. Andrews, Fr. Lasance, or St. Joseph (various imprimaturs before 1962) as well.

Lucky you living so close to the EF.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The 1962 is preferable but you should be able to use St. Andrews, Fr. Lasance, or St. Joseph (various imprimaturs before 1962) as well.

Lucky you living so close to the EF.

Didn’t SP specifically state 1962?

 

[Victorious]

Could someone please tell me what the current “correct” missal is for the TLM? I’ve always just used the one provided, but I’ve decided that I’d like to get my own. I’ve seen so many different editions available, though. I say “editions,” but that may be the wrong word – “printings” may be more correct. It seems like there was a lot being published in the late-'50s and early-'60s! Is there a standard? Are they all essentially the same? I would really appreciate the help. Thanks!

P.S. I hope the original poster had a good first TLM experience. In reading through this thread I realize that I’m pretty lucky: TLM is available in my own parish (which is 2 blocks away) on Sundays; and it’s available every day of the week(!) if I want to travel a bit further – 6 or so blocks away

Baronius Press has quite a good 1962 Missal in print – about $60.00.

 

[ProVobis]

Could someone please tell me what the current “correct” missal is for the TLM?

The 1962 is preferable but you should be able to use St. Andrews, Fr. Lasance, or St. Joseph (various imprimaturs before 1962) if you have one for yourself. Or even downloaded printouts or handouts from the priest, for that matter.

Lucky you living so close to the EF.

 

[Luvadoxi]

If you look through past discussions of the subject here you will see many women defending the practice of head-covering and writing about how meaningful they find it. The comments from men seem based on a general affinity for traditional practices rather than any anger at women. Head-covering for women is a very old tradition that goes from Bible times until a few decades ago. Of course people (of both sexes) who like tradition are likely to be attracted to it. I see no reason to associate the practice with a rejection of the dignity of women.

That’s what I’m hoping; that it’s just traditional custom and nothing wrong with that. Men used to wear hats, too, and people in general used to dress up more. I’m just saying that there is that negative connection in my mind, which would probably be dispelled once I attend a few of the traditional masses.

 

[Luvadoxi]

like bowling shoes–lol! When you think about it, it is sort of gross, but I guess I figured they always spray those shoes with disinfectant…I’m one of those weird people who always thought bowling shoes were kind of cute.:whacky:

Uh, Constantine, one word…L-I-C-E…

Anyway, just wanted to say you folks who are only a couple of miles from a TLM are so fortunate! I just started reading The Heresy of Formlessness. I might just get fired up enough to even wear a veil. My own veil. Maybe.

 

[Victorious]

like bowling shoes–lol! When you think about it, it is sort of gross, but I guess I figured they always spray those shoes with disinfectant…I’m one of those weird people who always thought bowling shoes were kind of cute.:whacky:

Uh, Constantine, one word…L-I-C-E…

Anyway, just wanted to say you folks who are only a couple of miles from a TLM are so fortunate! I just started reading The Heresy of Formlessness. I might just get fired up enough to even wear a veil. My own veil. Maybe.

Let us know how it goes when you attend the TLM. And for the record, I wear a mantilla, whether I attend the TLM or the Novus Ordo…but I’d rather put a kleenex on my head than wear a community mantilla…:frighten:

 

[Pregustator]

I’m confused. One of the big anti-OF arguments here is that it is a “performance,” meant for the enjoyment of the congregation instead of a serious celebration of the Eucharistic liturgy. Yet, here you suggest that one “just go and enjoy it.” May I ask, what exactly is one meant to “enjoy” at the celebration of Mass?

I’m sorry you’re confused. Perhaps I can offer a few points to help you to overcome your confusion…

1. I am not “anti-OF”. I do not care which missal is used, provided that Mass is celebrated correctly, with all due dignity, and preferably with some degree of majesty and solemnity.
2. Review all things in the context of the conversation that is taking place. We aren’t talking about some frivolous aesthete who wants to take in a Mass the way one takes in a gallery exhibit or a musical. We are talking about someone who hasn’t been to a Tridentine Mass since the fall of Rome and who is very excited about experiencing it again after so many years. My advice to this person was to simply go and enjoy it, rather than bury his or her head in a book, confused, flipping ribbons around, only to actually miss the celebration, itself.

An old hand at the use of the pre-Vatican II missal can observe the clergy’s actions at the altar and follow the texts, simultaneously, with ease. Not so for someone who is experiencing an “EF” Mass for the first time, or for the first time in a bajillion years. So what is the point of going to one’s first (or first in decades) Mass according to a certain form, whether it be it one’s first Tridentine Mass or one’s first Byzantine liturgy or one’s first Ambrosian Mass or one’s first Anglican Use liturgy, or what have you? Is it not to see and to hear and to absorb and to experience it? If it were merely a matter of reading the appointed texts of the day, you could simply acquire the texts and read them at home.

But I have never been a one to consider that we go to Mass (under any form) in order to bury our noses in books, reading texts. Happily, with respect to the Mass celebrated according to it’s “ordinary” form, you haven’t got to worry about that, because it is celebrated in the vernacular 99% of the time, thereby eliminating the need for hand-held congregational missals, altogether.

With respect to the Tridentine Mass, or Mass celebrated according to it’s “extraordinary” expression as many now say, unless one understands Latin, one needs a missal to follow along with the texts being read from the altar. That having been said, if obsessing about following all the texts means completely missing what is taking place in the chancel, then I would prefer to put the book down, altogether, and just follow the actions at the altar. If I had to choose one or the other, I would choose to observe and to contemplate the liturgical actions over reading the texts. To be able to comprehend the rubrics and ceremonies and the text, simultaneously, is the ideal, of course. But if it one cannot, for some reason, juggle both, I would say to take in the liturgical ceremonies while they are being carried out, and then read the texts afterwards. There is no point in attending Mass only to miss it.

1. Must worship preclude enjoyment? Why can one not “enjoy” participating at Mass? I do. I enjoy public worship services of all sorts, in fact: Mass, vespers, benediction, weddings, ordinations, &c. Well…when those services are executed correctly, that is (as they always ought to be). A “performance” is not the only thing one can enjoy, of course. Any liturgically-attuned Catholic would enjoy a well-ordered service.

 

[ProVobis]

because it is celebrated in the vernacular 99% of the time, thereby **eliminating the need **for hand-held congregational missals, altogether.

I disagree. You will always have a need for people to follow along in the written word as well. I always do and see others do so as well. Of course it’s uncomfortable to hold a missal or missalette but with proper names and homophone words and phrases inter alia, there are very few who can thoroughly understand what is being said. I have a problem just with people leaving me voice mail in the vernacular.

 

[malphono]

Happily, with respect to the Mass celebrated according to it’s “ordinary” form, you haven’t got to worry about that, because it is celebrated in the vernacular 99% of the time, thereby eliminating the need for hand-held congregational missals, altogether.

And yet there are those ubiquitous “missalettes” which are a huge money-making business for the publishers. Yeah, I know, the usual disclaimer is “oh, they’re there so people can follow the readings because it sinks-in better when read” etc: I guess the vernacular isn’t all that understandable after all.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Uh, Constantine, one word…L-I-C-E…

LOL, I know. But it seems most women there doesn’t mind. I don’t know how many go there on Sundays as I only went to First Friday High Mass. I guess if there’s only a good number of regular parishioners, then you know who to blame just in case you get lice

I don’t know if the parish is nice enough to wash them once a day. Or if a volunteer does it. I hope they do though.

 

[ProVobis]

And yet there are those ubiquitous “missalettes” which are a huge money-making business for the publishers. Yeah, I know, the usual disclaimer is “oh, they’re there so people can follow the readings because it sinks-in better when read” etc: I guess the vernacular isn’t all that understandable after all.

There would have to be 2 billion dynamic texts for everyone to be fully “understand” what is being said in his own vernacular as everyone has a unique vocabulary and meaning attached. Maintaining and authenticizing just several hundred static vernaculars is costly enough, yet the party line keeps parroting stuff like “I prefer to hear the Mass in something I can understand.” Realistically this is impossible.

 

[Pregustator]

I disagree. You will always have a need for people to follow along in the written word as well. I always do and see others do so as well.

Yes, there are those who do use a missal to follow Mass in their native tongue…and for the life of me I cannot understand why. I have never used a missal or a missalette to follow the Mass when celebrated in English simply because I see no reason to: I understand every word the celebrant and the lectors are saying…and I know all the parts that the congregation are expected to say by heart.

Now, once the revised Missal is published, it will make sense to use the Missal again, at least for a little while, until we’ve committed the revisions to memory. For most people, that should take about a year. For many, it will be alot sooner. The changes on the way, after all, are not terribly extensive.