First Youth Mass Tonight

[St_Aloysius]

Our youth group (middle through high school) had our first Youth Mass tonight. I was really looking forward to this for a long time… I’m a middle-schooler (8th grade) and was wondering how everyone would respond. It seemed like everyone was really getting into it. The music was much better than usual (I say that because the high school girls singing and the guy playing the acoustic were super-talented, blowing away most of the adults) and Father Maxi, a young African priest and local college student, delivered an awesome homily that I think was right on. He is a gentle person but one gifted with communication and a zeal and a fire for God, which he lets burn very strongly. (When he heard a weak “Amen” from the congregation, he talked about the amazing affirmation taking place as we pronounce the words, the “Let-it-be-so” that it signifies that we should proclaim joyfully. Trying again, the response went quite well. )

I’m hoping that we can continue this and that everyone will be on fire for God as we keep it up. This is an awesome thing to experience if your parish doesn’t have one! Please pray for us. Really pray.

(Oh, and almost as sidenote, is clapping a liturgical abuse? A couple of the songs played dictated very strongly clapping–and so we did. As a former Protestant, I find it to be an awesome expression of enthusiasm and a great way for everyone to participate in the song… but I repeat: What does the Church teach here?)

Here’s hoping for a wildfire-passion for the King of kings to spread!

Pax

 

[JimR-OCDS]

St_Aloysius
I’m glad to hear you had a wonderful experience, celebrating the gift God has given us, in the Eucharist. You sound like a person who is truly blessed with the gift of faith.

(Oh, and almost as sidenote, is clapping a liturgical abuse? A couple of the songs played dictated very strongly clapping–and so we did.

No, clapping in rhythm to a hymn, is not abuse, but I’m sure some in this forum will tell you it is. Don’t pay attention to them.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Alexius]

In this case, clapping does not seem out of place, so no, it isn’t wrong to do so. It is a Youth Mass, so I think it is less formal. I wouldn’t recommend clapping at a TLM or Divine Liturgy, though…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[benedictgal]

I was just going to wander around the threads as I am recovering from a migraine headache. However, your thread got the juices going.

My PV (parochial vicar) preached an incredible homily for the Feast of the Epiphany. The crux of his homily dealt with worship. Worship is the most important thing that we can do for God. Remember in Exodus that the first thing God instructed Moses to tell Pharoah was that He wanted the Hebrews to be let out for three days so that they could worship the Lord. Did He not feel concern with the fact that His people were slaves? He was concerned. Did He not feel concern that they were unhappy? It mattered to Him. However, the most important thing that mattered to the Lord was that they worship Him as their True and Only God. Bottom line is that God comes first.

During the Chosen People’s sojourn in the desert, God gave them very strict rubrics as to how he was to be worshipped, even down to the vestments, the vessels and the prayers. Form is very important to worship. We need structure and solemnity because we are doing something out of the ordinary here. This is not a gathering of friends out to celebrate itself. We are here to offer dignified worship to God that must follow what the Church prescribes. Remember, we are in the presence of the Divine Majesty of God.

Now Protestants do not have the living presence of Jesus in the Tabernacle. They socialize and talk, and that’s okay, because they don’t have the Blessed Sacrament and their idea of the presence of God is totally different than ours. As Catholics, we are different. We have rubrics and norms that we need to follow.

My PV noted that, of late, we have lost a good deal of solemnity in the Mass. People come in and socialize within the confines of sacred space while ignoring Jesus in the Tabernacle. We begin to make the community more important than the worship of God. We don’t give God the best of our music, the best of our art and environment and our complete and total attention. The shepherds knelt and worshipped the newly born King. The magi fell down and prostrated themselves in front of the Child Jesus.

Clapping secularizes things to the point that we forget what the focus of our worship, of our being there, is. We clap for concerts and performances, and that is the proper place. The only time that the Church calls for clapping is during ordinations when the candidate for the diaconate or the priesthood is presented to the faithful and the clapping is their agreement that the candidate is worthy. We also clap out of respect in the presence of the Holy Father. However, these forms do have some measured degree of sobriety.

[Edited by Moderator] Remember, my young friend, that the Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. It takes us out of the ordinary into God’s time. It is not some feel good, on-fire experience. You are in the Divine Presence of the Majesty of God. Don’t forget that. There is a deeper element that is present. Jesus, Himself said, “There is someone greater than Solomon here.”

I would encourage you to catch the broadcast of the next Papal Mass (next Sunday, the Solemntiy of the Baptism of the Lord) and see the big difference. Observe Pope Benedict and pay attention to his words. No flash, no exuberence, no calling attention to himself; he is there to proclaim Christ crucified, as St. Paul exhorts. Even though an ocean and several time zones separate us from Rome, I can still get the essence of the solemnity and dignity of the Mass whenever Pope Benedict celebrates. He is giving us the model for what the Mass should be like.

By the way, my PV is not old. He’s in his forties and has a very good grasp of what the Mass means. I do hope that the faithful got the message.

 

[pnewton]

I have only been subjected to one Youth Mass and I am happy for your although it is far from my cup of tea. Even though I did not care for the music, I will not that there was no question that the young people showed a profound reference and solemnity thorought the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I realize that just because I find reverence difficult to achieve in some settings does not make reverence absent. I would just encourage you to remember in whose presence you are. Lex credendi, lex orandi. Your faith will be reflected in your worship.

 

[Alexius]

I was just going to wander around the threads as I am recovering from a migraine headache. However, your thread got the juices going.

Sorry to hear that. I get those too…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[scylla]

No, clapping in rhythm to a hymn, is not abuse, but I’m sure some in this forum will tell you it is. Don’t pay attention to them.

God Bless
Jim

If you look back on my posts you will see I am pretty traditional in my thinking, yet in a more casual environment I would not say that clapping in itself is an abuse at all.
Clapping for someone as if we are at a show is an abuse as it is entirely missing the point of Mass.

At Mass it might be ok to clap depending on the situation as stated earlier and if the song dictates.
If someone decides on a song that dictates clapping, though I think it is in poor taste, it is not an abuse, since it is part of the song, just like singing is. As long as the focus is on God.

But now if the Priest says something like, “hey lets give a hand to so and so” then you can see where the focus has shifted from God to people.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Lovemyfaith]

if the Priest says something like, “hey lets give a hand to so and so” then you can see where the focus has shifted from God to people.

My pastor says that all the time, clap for the choir, clap for a visiting priest, etc. Our one PV had everyone clap the other week because it was the birthday of a parish member (a doctor and big time contributor). Oh well, at least he hasn’t had the altar servers hold up signs yet that say applause or laugh. (yet)

As for clapping for a song, we had a teen mass yesterday and the last song was Go Tell it on the Mountain, and the group did clap during the last refrain. I was less offended by that then the Communion song, Mary Did You Know (but let’s not start that up again).

 

[Cat]

My pastor says that all the time, clap for the choir, clap for a visiting priest, etc. Our one PV had everyone clap the other week because it was the birthday of a parish member (a doctor and big time contributor). Oh well, at least he hasn’t had the altar servers hold up signs yet that say applause or laugh. (yet)

As for clapping for a song, we had a teen mass yesterday and the last song was Go Tell it on the Mountain, and the group did clap during the last refrain. I was less offended by that then the Communion song, Mary Did You Know (but let’s not start that up again).

Why did you go to the teen Mass? Was it your only Mass option yesterday?

 

[VociMike]

(Oh, and almost as sidenote, is clapping a liturgical abuse? A couple of the songs played dictated very strongly clapping–and so we did. As a former Protestant, I find it to be an awesome expression of enthusiasm and a great way for everyone to participate in the song… but I repeat: What does the Church teach here?)

I have two questions. Why did you ask about clapping if you thought it was awesome? What prompted you to think that it might be a problem?

And, what awesome expressions of enthusiasm would you not allow in the Mass? Would you allow whistling? Whooping? Stomping? Shouting? Dancing in the aisles? High-fives? Are there any “awesome expressions of enthusiasm” that you would find problematic in the context of the Mass, and if so, which ones and why?

 

[Joysong]

(I say that because the high school girls singing and the guy playing the acoustic were super-talented, blowing away most of the adults)

Clarify, if you will, what it means to blow away most of the adults, and why you think this is a good thing? I trust this liturgy was designated in the bulletin as a ‘youth mass’ so that the adults who chose to attend would be understanding of the musical choices. As a typical 8th grade teen, I can appreciate why you would be enthused in your own style of worship.

and Father Maxi, a young African priest and local college student, delivered an awesome homily that I think was right on. He is a gentle person but one gifted with communication and a zeal and a fire for God, which he lets burn very strongly.

I commend you for appreciating your priest, and finding richness in his message. Pray for continuing giftedness throughout all the clergy!

I’m hoping that we can continue this and that everyone will be on fire for God as we keep it up. This is an awesome thing to experience if your parish doesn’t have one! Please pray for us.

I will pray for the underlined sentiment, which is most desirable. Just be a little careful lest you think that ‘we’ are the very ones who effect a person’s increased devotion. I hope you realize that piety and ‘fire’ depend upon much more than externals.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Why did you go to the teen Mass? Was it your only Mass option yesterday?

Well, DD#1 plays the trumpet DD#2 plays the clarinet and sings with the teen group. I don’t mind the clapping so much, it isn’t really my thing, but the idea of a teen Mass is a great thing to me (I suppose because I have teens).
It doesn’t matter anyway, if I was at another Mass, guarantee the pastor would have us clapping for the Christmas decorators or choir or someone’s birthday or because it is sunny out or whatever.
I don’t know about clapping at church, if there is a place for it or not, if it is reverent or not, but in general, it isn’t my thing.

 

[anamchara]

Our youth group (middle through high school) had our first Youth Mass tonight. I was really looking forward to this for a long time… I’m a middle-schooler (8th grade) and was wondering how everyone would respond. It seemed like everyone was really getting into it. The music was much better than usual (I say that because the high school girls singing and the guy playing the acoustic were super-talented, blowing away most of the adults) and Father Maxi, a young African priest and local college student, delivered an awesome homily that I think was right on. He is a gentle person but one gifted with communication and a zeal and a fire for God, which he lets burn very strongly. (When he heard a weak “Amen” from the congregation, he talked about the amazing affirmation taking place as we pronounce the words, the “Let-it-be-so” that it signifies that we should proclaim joyfully. Trying again, the response went quite well. )

I’m hoping that we can continue this and that everyone will be on fire for God as we keep it up. This is an awesome thing to experience if your parish doesn’t have one! Please pray for us. Really pray.

(Oh, and almost as sidenote, is clapping a liturgical abuse? A couple of the songs played dictated very strongly clapping–and so we did. As a former Protestant, I find it to be an awesome expression of enthusiasm and a great way for everyone to participate in the song… but I repeat: What does the Church teach here?)

Here’s hoping for a wildfire-passion for the King of kings to spread!

Pax

Great news my friend, it sounds like it turned out wonderful :thumbsup:don’t worry about the clapping

 

[anamchara]

I have two questions. Why did you ask about clapping if you thought it was awesome? What prompted you to think that it might be a problem?

why are you asking this young person these questions? It seems obvious to me that he or she is very excited about the youth Mass but in all the excitement just wants to make sure clapping was ok.

 

[VociMike]

why are you asking this young person these questions? It seems obvious to me that he or she is very excited about the youth Mass but in all the excitement just wants to make sure clapping was ok.

Why am I asking? It’s called “participating in a thread”. I do it all the time here. I could just as easily ask you “why are you asking me these questions?” but I don’t see how it’s any business of mine why you post what you post.

I guess you didn’t read my question very closely. I was asking the OP why he even thought to ask about clapping, if he thought it was an awesome act of participation. People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not be OK. I’m asking if the OP has such a sense, and what exactly that sense might be.

To use your words, people don’t check to make sure a thing is OK unless they have some suspicion that the thing may not be OK. I’m asking if that is the case with the OP. It’s an obvious question to ask in light of the OP’s comments.

 

[anamchara]

Why am I asking? It’s called “participating in a thread”. I do it all the time here. I could just as easily ask you “why are you asking me these questions?” but I don’t see how it’s any business of mine why you post what you post.

I guess you didn’t read my question very closely. I was asking the OP why he even thought to ask about clapping, if he thought it was an awesome act of participation. People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not be OK. I’m asking if the OP has such a sense, and what exactly that sense might be.

To use your words, people don’t check to make sure a thing is OK unless they have some suspicion that the thing may not be OK. I’m asking if that is the case with the OP. It’s an obvious question to ask in light of the OP’s comments.

Perhaps I sensed the same ill-will which oozes forth from your sarcastic
and condescending “It’s called ‘participating in a thread’.” You’ve
been on this board long enough to know that many posters enjoy leading
others “into traps”. Knowing that such an environment exists here and
knowing that actions such as “clapping in church” gets some peoples’
hackles up, makes your question…suspect. Even your response to me
(“People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not
be OK”) shows that you suspected the OP of not being completely
forthright. Yeah, I think I have every right to question your question.
To borrow a phrase, it’s called “participating”. It’s also called
defending the persecuted (if perhaps, a little pre-emptory).

Now to answer your until now hidden question: why ask unless you already
suspect it is wrong. This is a young person with a presumably limited
experience of his/her faith. It is highly conceivable that they have
never witnessed clapping in the Catholic Church. Furthermore, as their LifeTeen
experience was so far removed from the somber Mass experience they’ve
probably known exclusively until then, the novelty of clapping might
have been a bit jarring for them. Being obviously enthusiastic, albeit
young, in their faith they wanted to be sure that this novelty was still
within the realm of propriety. That doesn’t mean that they suspect it
IS wrong, but only that it is different and therefore MAY be so.

 

[VociMike]

Perhaps I sensed the same ill-will which oozes forth from your sarcastic
and condescending “It’s called ‘participating in a thread’.” You’ve
been on this board long enough to know that many posters enjoy leading
others “into traps”. Knowing that such an environment exists here and
knowing that actions such as “clapping in church” gets some peoples’
hackles up, makes your question…suspect. Even your response to me
(“People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not
be OK”) shows that you suspected the OP of not being completely
forthright. Yeah, I think I have every right to question your question.
To borrow a phrase, it’s called “participating”. It’s also called
defending the persecuted (if perhaps, a little pre-emptory).

Now to answer your until now hidden question: why ask unless you already
suspect it is wrong. This is a young person with a presumably limited
experience of his/her faith. It is highly conceivable that they have
never witnessed clapping in the Catholic Church. Furthermore, as their LifeTeen
experience was so far removed from the somber Mass experience they’ve
probably known exclusively until then, the novelty of clapping might
have been a bit jarring for them. Being obviously enthusiastic, albeit
young, in their faith they wanted to be sure that this novelty was still
within the realm of propriety. That doesn’t mean that they suspect it
IS wrong, but only that it is different and therefore MAY be so.

Ill-will? For asking a couple of questions to help clarify the very question the OP asked? Ill-will for trying to lead the OP to examine the issues involved regarding the situation he commented on?

You know what? I don’t see any benefit from following your diversionary sub-thread further. If the OP or anybody else wants to pursue my questions regarding the suitability of clapping and other “expressions of enthusiasm” at Mass then I’ll be happy to join in. But I certainly won’t be defending my posts to you any more. If anybody here is demonstrating ill-will, it’s not me - I haven’t suggested that anybody is persecuting anybody, or should persecute anybody, nor can my questions possibly be construed by any reasonable person as persecuting anybody. How the subject of persecution even entered into this discussion is beyond my comprehension.

And my questions for the OP (or anybody else) stand.

 

[dbacks5439]

Perhaps I sensed the same ill-will which oozes forth from your sarcastic
and condescending “It’s called ‘participating in a thread’.” You’ve
been on this board long enough to know that many posters enjoy leading
others “into traps”. Knowing that such an environment exists here and
knowing that actions such as “clapping in church” gets some peoples’
hackles up, makes your question…suspect. Even your response to me
(“People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not
be OK”) shows that you suspected the OP of not being completely
forthright. Yeah, I think I have every right to question your question.
To borrow a phrase, it’s called “participating”. It’s also called
defending the persecuted (if perhaps, a little pre-emptory).

Now to answer your until now hidden question: why ask unless you already
suspect it is wrong. This is a young person with a presumably limited
experience of his/her faith. It is highly conceivable that they have
never witnessed clapping in the Catholic Church. Furthermore, as their LifeTeen
experience was so far removed from the somber Mass experience they’ve
probably known exclusively until then, the **novelty of clapping **might
have been a bit jarring for them. Being obviously enthusiastic, albeit
young, in their faith they wanted to be sure that this novelty was still
within the realm of propriety. That doesn’t mean that they suspect it
IS wrong, but only that it is different and therefore MAY be so.

I don’t seem to recall the issue of clapping being discussed in any papal document, which leads to the conclusion that clapping is indeed a “novelty” not endorsed by Rome. Perhaps you have heard of the “monkeys in the sanctuary” argument?

 

[cmudd]

Perhaps I sensed the same ill-will which oozes forth from your sarcastic
and condescending “It’s called ‘participating in a thread’.” You’ve
been on this board long enough to know that many posters enjoy leading
others “into traps”. Knowing that such an environment exists here and
knowing that actions such as “clapping in church” gets some peoples’
hackles up, makes your question…suspect. Even your response to me
(“People don’t ask if X is OK unless they have some sense that X may not
be OK”) shows that you suspected the OP of not being completely
forthright. Yeah, I think I have every right to question your question.
To borrow a phrase, it’s called “participating”. It’s also called
defending the persecuted (if perhaps, a little pre-emptory).

Now to answer your until now hidden question: why ask unless you already
suspect it is wrong. This is a young person with a presumably limited
experience of his/her faith. It is highly conceivable that they have
never witnessed clapping in the Catholic Church. Furthermore, as their LifeTeen
experience was so far removed from the somber Mass experience they’ve
probably known exclusively until then, the novelty of clapping might
have been a bit jarring for them. Being obviously enthusiastic, albeit
young, in their faith they wanted to be sure that this novelty was still
within the realm of propriety. That doesn’t mean that they suspect it
IS wrong, but only that it is different and therefore MAY be so.

WOW! I thought that his questions were very astute and thought-provoking. I didn’t get any sense of negativity at all! They were the type of well-formed and insightful questions that I used to hear in my philosophy classes in college.

At any rate, I hope VociMike will keep up the good questions!

 

[benedictgal]

WOW! I thought that his questions were very astute and thought-provoking. I didn’t get any sense of negativity at all! They were the type of well-formed and insightful questions that I used to hear in my philosophy classes in college.

At any rate, I hope VociMike will keep up the good questions!

I, too, did not find anything offenseive about VociMike’s questions. I believe that they are justified so that we can get to the heart of the matter. After all the young OP did ask for an opinion and VociMike is simply trying to get clarification.

I am a journalist by degree. It is within my nature to ask questions in order to clarify something or to get the right information. When a post is rather open-ended, clarification is needed in order to formulate an accurate assessment of the OP’s situation.