Fisher More college banned from celebrating EF

[OraLabora]

In the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, I would be careful of implying that the opposite is the case with Fisher More. At least I gathered that implication from your statement.

It’s because they themselves imply it. If the EF is self-described as the “essential to achieving our mission”, it sort of implies that the OF is somehow deficient in providing a good Catholic education. There is no way that the EF is essential to providing a good Catholic education, unless it happens to be an FSSP seminary, which is charged with the formation of priests capable of celebrating it. It may be beneficial to include celebration of the EF, but most certainly to say it is essential for the education of young Catholics, borders on very dangerous territory.

We haven’t seen Fisher More demonstrate its disobedience.

True, but I’ll wager that the terse letter from the Bishop is the climax of some discussions that occurred beforehand that were perhaps less than cordial. We just don’t know the entire story from the bishop’s side. What we are getting is a story from an agenda-driven website, the modern-day kangaroo court. Public shaming without a trial.

We haven’t seen Fisher More disrespect any valid liturgy of the Church, including the NO.

We have, by implication. See above. Now if they said “we believe celebrating the Liturgy obediently and reverently according to the rubrics, whatever form is important to a sound Catholic education”, I’d think differently. However participating as I do in an OF Mass every week that is celebrated according to the Graduale Romanum with great reverence by Benedictine monks, indicates to me that this college either has a poor understanding of liturgy if it thinks only the EF can convey the proper sense of the sacred, or there is a hidden agenda in there somewhere with respect to the OF. There is absolutely nothing about the OF that precludes its reverent celebration faithful to Catholic tradition. Even in Latin and with Gregorian chant if so desired.

Why is the “should” here? Fisher More is small. It has a tiny amount of resources. It only has so many teachers to teach spirituality. It can only offer one Mass a day. Furthermore, its priest-in-residence is F.S.S.P., who obviously is specialized in the EF.

I’m not suggesting that they should celebrate multiple different liturgies on a regular basis. But a Catholic college should at least provide some course material on the major licit spiritual movements within the Church, such as mendicant, monastic, etc. That shouldn’t be too difficult. I’ll have to assume though, in charity, that they already do so.

 

[steymard]

It’s because they themselves imply it. If the EF is self-described as the “essential to achieving our mission”, it sort of implies that the OF is somehow deficient in providing a good Catholic education.

I’m afraid that’s where we part in opinion.

At the blog Dallas Area Catholic, there is some more information shared about the situation. It’s pretty balanced and not quite so trumpety as Rorate.

Here remains my concern: Summorum Pontificum provides the ability to have mass in the EF without the permission of the bishop. If the bishop is able to prohibit its use at his own discretion, a fortiori his permission is needed. This is why I think an appeal to Ecclesia Dei will hold up, but I cannot be sure.

 

[Tobias2]

I am reading contradictory stories on this. I think we’ll have to wait for definitive details before passing judgment on what this may portend for the EF going forward. It is discouraging that these disciplines come against more orthodox/traditional groups while apparently none are being taken against less orthodox groups.

Hopefully the FSSP will give a statement as to the status of their priest saying these Mases…

 

[agnes_therese]

I will say that if it comes out to be arbitrary - as in, if Bishop Olson did not agree with the daily use of the EF in general - I will expect a response from Ecclesia Dei favourable to Fisher More. But let’s wait and see.

I would think that if Bishop Olson had previously shown any hostility to the Extraordinary Form, someone would have tossed that into the conversation here.

 

[Cider]

Father Z has now posted on this subject on his blog.

 

[steymard]

I would think that if Bishop Olson had previously shown any hostility to the Extraordinary Form, someone would have tossed that into the conversation here.

It’s been less than a month since his ordination, so he hasn’t had much opportunity to show hostility previously.

The Dallas Area Catholics post is here: it is, I hope you will find, non-inflammatory.

veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/fisher-more-denied-ability-to-offer-tlm/

 

[clem456]

Here remains my concern: Summorum Pontificum provides the ability to have mass in the EF without the permission of the bishop. .

I’m not sure that is so. I’m not disputing that it is, but the way my layman’s eyes read it, it does not seem to be so.

LETTER OF HIS HOLINESS
BENEDICT XVI
TO THE BISHOPS ON THE OCCASION OF THE PUBLICATION
OF THE APOSTOLIC LETTER “MOTU PROPRIO DATA”
SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM
ON THE USE OF THE ROMAN LITURGY
PRIOR TO THE REFORM OF 1970
My dear Brother Bishops,
…
In conclusion, dear Brothers, I very much wish to stress that these new norms do not in any way lessen your own authority and responsibility, either for the liturgy or for the pastoral care of your faithful. Each Bishop, in fact, is the moderator of the liturgy in his own Diocese (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, 22: “Sacrae Liturgiae moderatio ab Ecclesiae auctoritate unice pendet quae quidem est apud Apostolicam Sedem et, ad normam iuris, apud Episcopum”).

Nothing is taken away, then, from the authority of the Bishop, whose role remains that of being watchful that all is done in peace and serenity. Should some problem arise which the parish priest cannot resolve, the local Ordinary will always be able to intervene, in full harmony, however, with all that has been laid down by the new norms of the Motu Proprio.

 

[felsguy]

According to this site, which I have never visitied before but appears to be “theologically and litugically neutral,” Fisher More College has twenty-one undergraduate students! Is this accurate?

collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=577

 

[OraLabora]

I would think that if Bishop Olson had previously shown any hostility to the Extraordinary Form, someone would have tossed that into the conversation here.

Exactly, in fact it’s clear he has already made it available elsewhere in his diocese as his letter makes clear when giving students an alternative location for it so it can’t be hostility to the EF. That this is restricted to this college supposes he doesn’t have an issue with SP, he has an issue with this college.

Which leads me to suspect, like Tim, that there’s something else going on here, and major issues with the college. The bishop’s letter is short, terse, and to the point. You don’t write a letter like that until you have exhausted a long series of attempts at dialogue and compromise with the college. The letter practically oozed exasperation and frustration from a bishop who was at the end of his rope.

I’m only guessing here, but it reminds me of the recent issue with the friars: the use of the EF for the wrong reasons.

 

[OraLabora]

I’m not sure that is so. I’m not disputing that it is, but the way my layman’s eyes read it, it does not seem to be so.

The letter also says this, my bold:

Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness.

 

[Brooklyn]

Obedience, obedience, obedience.

It appears that’s all that matters for all of you.

Reminds me of Brian Moore’s 1972 novel Catholics, a scene in which a Vatican visitor ties to convince the only existing religious order that does the TLM to give it up. He uses this analogy: “…if I was told disbelief in God of out obedience, I would have to obey. Obedience triumphs everything!”

Granted, I think the analogy is flawed but for anyone to say that the only problem is obedience clearly has no idea what he/she is talking about.

It’s more than just obedience.

It’s about understanding the true nature of Catholic Tradition and everything that goes along with it in Her 2,000 year-old *consistent *history.

From St. Faustina’s Diary - the words of Jesus Christ:

“My daughter, know that you give Me greater glory by a single act of obedience than by long prayers and mortifications.” (894)

 

[Brooklyn]

I used to subscribe to both magazines but found them to be irrelevant after the SP was issued. Do they even have a subscriber base anymore to be a serious threat to the faith?

If they drive one person from the faith, that is a serious threat to the faith.

 

[ProVobis]

If they drive one person from the faith, that is a serious threat to the faith.

Touche.

 

[corsair]

Until we know more, you might consider this opinion;

veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/fisher-more-denied-ability-to-offer-tlm/

 

[OraLabora]

Until we know more, you might consider this opinion;

veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/fisher-more-denied-ability-to-offer-tlm/

Which confirms that there are huge problems at the college and with its director, of which the EF Mass may only be the canary in the coal mine (good Mass, wrong reasons).

It could be that banning the EF Mass was a clumsy attempt at disciplining the college’s leadership, but it’s clear from that article that they need disciplining of some kind.

 

[Brooklyn]

Interesting comments in the combox:

1. Kim - March 3, 2014
   The TLM is removed because there are some problems at the school? This makes no sense.

Reply
tantamergo - March 3, 2014
They aren’t “some” problems, they are problems so severe the college will be gone in 6 months barring a miracle.

 

[JM3]

1. Taylor Marshall - March 3, 2014

This entirely about Michael King. It has nothing to do with the Latin Mass, which I love and attend.

1. KW - March 3, 2014

I really wish when things like this happen, that people outside who don’t know what’s going on would stop blaming the bishop and chastising his actions! Since my husband has seen everything that has happened from the very beginning, we clearly see that GOD is working THROUGH Bishop Olson to bring justice to this situation. Some will complain it is not fair or right to take away the TLM mass, but who are we to question God’s justice. Most have NO IDEA how much harm the leadership of this college has caused to good, faithful traditional Catholics. I believe God is outraged by it, and of course, justice served to Michael King is going to affect the WHOLE college, because he is its “omnipotent” leader, and the consequence of all his actions the past 3-4 years will affect the whole school. The ROOT of this whole problem is Mr. King, NOT Bishop Olson. This could have been avoided a long time ago. The students will invariably be affected by the decisions of the leadership, and this is the consequences of MANY harmful decisions made by him over the last 3-4 yrs. And God can do as he pleases, and it can affect both the sheep and the wolves. Just read the old testament. The students will have to find another place to go soon, anyway. The college has already practically collapsed. Very few students left. And all because of the leadership of one man, who brings destruction with him.

1. Dave - March 3, 2014

Does anyone even know if the priest(s) celebrating Mass had faculties granted by the Bishop? My understanding is that the FSSP priests left some time ago. That begs the question as to who has been celebrating Mass at FMC.

 

[johnnykins]

Let’s face it - we don’t know exactly what the problem(s) is(are).

However, what anyone who had read some of the strange, self-righteous, ultra-right-wing “Catholic” blogs is: they are overly sure of their purity; they are more Catholic than the Pope; they take swipes at valid Ecumenical Councils - especially Vatican II as if they are more Catholic than the assembled Council Fathers; the brook no disagreement; they listen to no alternative interpretations or explanations; they routinely exhibit a hubris that is breathtaking - and an ignorance that is frequently startling. Some of these blogs are even written by priests.

I’m not a real fan of how way too many Bishops have handled many matters, but Rorate and its ilk need to be taken with a very big grain of salt.

 

[Brooklyn]

Let’s face it - we don’t know exactly what the problem(s) is(are).

However, what anyone who had read some of the strange, self-righteous, ultra-right-wing “Catholic” blogs is: they are overly sure of their purity; they are more Catholic than the Pope; they take swipes at valid Ecumenical Councils - especially Vatican II as if they are more Catholic than the assembled Council Fathers; the brook no disagreement; they listen to no alternative interpretations or explanations; they routinely exhibit a hubris that is breathtaking - and an ignorance that is frequently startling. Some of these blogs are even written by priests.

I’m not a real fan of how way too many Bishops have handled many matters, but Rorate and its ilk need to be taken with a very big grain of salt.

 

[clem456]

From St. Faustina’s Diary - the words of Jesus Christ:

“My daughter, know that you give Me greater glory by a single act of obedience than by long prayers and mortifications.” (894)

Obedience does not hold much appeal to the modern sensibility, which places an emphasis on personal expression and preference, and the misplaced primacy of the individual. (I’ve been as guilty as anyone else in my life). I find it interesting that folks from both sides of the political divide in the Church think in like mind, and do not understand obedience with the mind of the Church.

Obedience has come to be a dirty and misunderstood word.