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LaMar
Guest
I wouldn’t worry about this too much. No intelligent person could possibly take that film as anything more than a sad, bigoted joke. It wasn’t even made well. Looks like the work of a troubled, adolescent youtuber.
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Islam is a holy struggle. It is in your scripture. It is not possible to deny it.
They practice it throughout it’s history. Were they invited into north Africa and Spain? You cannot deny history.
What is freedom? Is that freedom you seek in Tehran or Mecca like there is in Rome? Is Amman or Damascus anything like the religious freedom in New York? You clearly have not denied the promise of violence in Islam.
Where does it say that?
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #193)- there is an unacceptable exception.
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #38), ( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #39)- I would have to convert for Muslims to be nice.
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #29)
How is the non-Muslim supposed to read this? What is the context or eternal truth today?
Powerful is not up for debate. The truth is. Do you believe 9:29 in your heart like I belive this in mine?
Matthew 19:18-21
Jesus replied, " ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’**"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Islam and Mohammed do none of those things, or does all of them. It is a matter of perspective but he does not follow Christ. Mohammed murdered. That alone separates him from God and Jesus. Mohammed stole and did not love his neighbor. Please tell me how you honor that.
Mohammed gives false testimony regarding Jesus. It is your scripture. What if the Gospels came 600 years after the Quran and it denied the marraige to his Zainab his daughter-in-law? What right do you have to say that is true? You call this little movie Fitna a lie. It only quotes your scripture.**
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Please give the context of the verses that makes them acceptable to you.
Go for it. Muslim tv in the ME does it all the time. What violence does the NT offer that is not used to describe the violence against Christ or those persecuting the early Christians? Does defending islam make Joseph Smith more acceptable? Ask Sister Amy or meedo if she/he would fight for your religious freedom? Then ask them to quote the Koran verse that supports it.
Don’t you mean incredulous?
Ok. I made this for Lent. It’s not exactly like you want though. This one is true too.
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Schultzz
Guest
Why do I get the feeling that your attempts to “desensitize” the issue aren’t working. I don’t see any humor from that film and is doesn’t look like a joke. It is sad, but bigotry is based on opinion, those quotes were based on what was written. How can you rationalize that message. I think this man is worried and concerned about his country and the current population and potential threat to the peace and well being of his country. Somehow your statement doesn’t make me feel very safe.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I think our friend Verisimilitude is an expert talking without context:
I quote the chatpter/verses below:
The Holy Quran : Chapter 9: Al-Taubah
[9:1] This is a declaration of complete vindication on the part of Allah and His Messenger to the idolaters to whom you had announce a commitment that Islam would triumph in Arabia.
[9:2] So go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the disbelievers.
[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who disbelieve,
[9:4] Except those of the disbelievers with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely Allah loves those that are righteous.
[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters seeks protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.
[9:7] How can there be a treaty for these idolaters with Allah and His Messenger, Except those with whom you entered into a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? So, as long as they are true to them. Surely Allah loves those who fulfil their obligations.
[9:8] How can it be when, if they prevail against you, they would not observe any tie of kinship or covenant in respect of you. They would please you with their mouths, while their heart repudiate what they say and most of them are perfidious.
[9:9] They have bartered the Signs of Allah for a paltry price and have turned men away from His way. Evil indeed is that which they do.
[9:10] They observe not any tie of kinship or covenant in respect of any believer. And it is they who are transgressors.
[9:11] But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, then they are your brethren in Faith. And We explain the Signs for a people who have knowledge.
[9:12] And if they break their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion, then fight these leaders of disbelief --surely, they have no regard for their oaths, - that they may desist.
[9:13] Will you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, and who plotted to turn out the Messenger, and they were the first to commence hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Nay, Allah is most worthy that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
[9:14] Fight them, that Allah may punish them at your hands, and humiliate then, and help you to victory over them, and relieve the minds of a people who believe;
[9:15] And that He may remove the anger of their hearts. And Allah turns with mercy to whomsoever He pleases. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
[9:16] Do you think that you would be left in peace, while Allah has not yet known those of you who strive in the cause of Allah and do not take anyone for an intimate friend besides Allah and His Messenger and the believers? And Allah is well-Aware of what you do.
[9:17] It is not for the idolaters to maintain the Mosques of Allah while they bear witness against themselves to disbelief. It is they whose works shall be vain, and in the Fire shall they abide forever.
[9:18] He alone can maintain the Mosques of Allah who believers in Allah, and the Last Day, and observes Prayer, and pays the Zakaat and fears not but Allah; so these it is who may be rightly guided.
[9:19] Do you consider the giving of drink to the pilgrims, and the maintenance of the Scared Mosque as equal to the work of him who believes in Allah and the Last Day and strives in the path of Allah? They are not at all equal in the sight of Allah and Allah guides not the unjust people.
[9:20] Those who believed and left their homes for the sake of God and strove in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives have the highest rank in the sight of Allah. And it is they who shall triumph.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=9&verse=20
Continued in the next post
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paarsurrey
Guest
Continued from the previous post
[9:21] Their Lord gives them glad tidings of mercy from Him, and of His pleasure, and Gardens wherein there shall be lasting bliss for them;
[9:22] They will abide therein forever. Verily, with Allah there is a great reward.
[9:23] O ye who believe! take not your fathers and brothers for friends if they prefer disbelieve to faith. And whoso of you takes them for friends, such are the wrongdoers.
[9:24] Say, if your fathers and sons and your brethren and your wives and your kinsfolk and the wealth you have acquired and the trade whose dullness you fear and the dwellings which you love are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah brings about His judgment; and Allah guides not the disobedient people.
[9:25] Surely, Allah has helped you on many a battle field and on the day of Hunain, when your great numbers made you proud, but they availed you naught; and the earth, with all its vastness, became straitened for you, and then you turned back retreating.
[9:26] Then Allah sent down His peace upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and He sent down host which you did not see, and He punished those who disbelieved. And this is the reward of the disbelievers.
[9:27] Then after such punishment Allah turns with compassion to whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is Most Forgiving.
[9:28] O ye who believe! surely, the idolaters are unclean. So they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. And if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you out of His bounty, if He pleases. Surely, Allah is All-knowing, Wise.
[9:29] Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection.
[9:30] And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of Allah,’ and the Christians say, ‘the Messiah is the son of Allah;’ that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. Allah’s curse be on them! How they are turned away.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=9&verse=20
Thanks
[9:21] Their Lord gives them glad tidings of mercy from Him, and of His pleasure, and Gardens wherein there shall be lasting bliss for them;
[9:22] They will abide therein forever. Verily, with Allah there is a great reward.
[9:23] O ye who believe! take not your fathers and brothers for friends if they prefer disbelieve to faith. And whoso of you takes them for friends, such are the wrongdoers.
[9:24] Say, if your fathers and sons and your brethren and your wives and your kinsfolk and the wealth you have acquired and the trade whose dullness you fear and the dwellings which you love are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah brings about His judgment; and Allah guides not the disobedient people.
[9:25] Surely, Allah has helped you on many a battle field and on the day of Hunain, when your great numbers made you proud, but they availed you naught; and the earth, with all its vastness, became straitened for you, and then you turned back retreating.
[9:26] Then Allah sent down His peace upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and He sent down host which you did not see, and He punished those who disbelieved. And this is the reward of the disbelievers.
[9:27] Then after such punishment Allah turns with compassion to whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is Most Forgiving.
[9:28] O ye who believe! surely, the idolaters are unclean. So they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. And if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you out of His bounty, if He pleases. Surely, Allah is All-knowing, Wise.
[9:29] Fight those from among the people of the Book, who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor hold as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared to be unlawful, nor follow the true religion, until they pay the tax considering it a favor and acknowledge their subjection.
[9:30] And the Jews say, ‘Ezra is the son of Allah,’ and the Christians say, ‘the Messiah is the son of Allah;’ that is what they say with their mouths. They only imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before them. Allah’s curse be on them! How they are turned away.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=9&verse=20
Thanks
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Verisimilitude
Guest
Hi,
I think the peacefull intended paarsurrey is an expert at ignoring the obvious.
I bolded the context in this last part…it is the same throughout the koran. I don’t know what you intended by giving the full context but it still serves my purpose. See the bolded words.
allah has no words of kindness to the unbeliever. Let’s look at the verse in question from your own translation. The context is clear.
That is me.
I do not believe in the god of the koran.
inevitable.
his messenger is not legitimate and the words of all in the koran are rejected so what they declared lawful like war is also rejected.
That to you is Islam and I have rejected it.
This hould be offensive to any rational human being.
Why does allah demand my shame and/or my death?
Your context doees not refute the vilolence.
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LaMar
Guest
There’s really no need to desensitize anything, as the film itself didn’t make any appreciable impression whatever. That movie came and went without so much as a yawn. No one who has any grasp on reality can take it seriously.
It’s really the same as all the anti-semitic and anti-illegal-alien propaganda that litters the web. If you live in the U.S. you’re free to view, produce, and participate in that sort of nonsense, but you shouldn’t expect rational and thoughtful people to spend any time taking such trash seriously. We don’t. It’s just a lot of nonsensical appeals to emotion written by insecure people who don’t know how to enjoy life.
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Righteousone
Guest
Nonsence? Someone better wake up and smell what’s really going on in the world. Obviously this is a wake up call this person wants to put out there so that people who are rather in denial, can understand what may be coming soon.
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Elric
Guest
That film is only a truth, its certainly not THE truth.
There are members of the Muslim faith that are like what is portrayed in the film, there is no denying that. But they dont represent the whole Muslim faith.
Where I live (and I have stated it before) there is a significant population of Muslims and they are nothing like what is portrayed in the film, they are just like everyone else in the community.
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Righteousone
Guest
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Booklover
Guest
Continue to bury your head in the sand, the work of the useful idiots never ends!! Not a day goes by that we don’t hear of some atrocity committed by Muslims in the name of their false god and false prophet Muhammad which proves that what the film says is true!
Vickie
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Booklover
Guest
Nice taqqiya snow job! Muslims don’t have any respect for unbelievers!
Another triumphalistic remark from the Islamic school of brainwashing and indoctrination!
Vickie
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Alexius
Guest
“Even if there would be an army against me,
My heart would not fear.
Strength Of My Life, whom shall I dread?
When them evildoers approach to devour my flesh.”
Strength of My Life
P.O.D. with Matisyahu
azlyrics.com/lyrics/pod/strengthofmylife.html"
This is nothing new. For thousands of years, there have been those who seek to destroy humanity and GOD’s people. We must be firm in our faith and trust in Him to protect and guide us…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
My heart would not fear.
Strength Of My Life, whom shall I dread?
When them evildoers approach to devour my flesh.”
Strength of My Life
P.O.D. with Matisyahu
azlyrics.com/lyrics/pod/strengthofmylife.html"
This is nothing new. For thousands of years, there have been those who seek to destroy humanity and GOD’s people. We must be firm in our faith and trust in Him to protect and guide us…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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Booklover
Guest
Another nice taqqiya snow job!
Your false god in the Quran states that he will not accept any other religion than Islam!What a nonsensical post! It’s just the product of your intense brainwashing and indoctrination! Islam is being attacked because of the evil fruit it produces, as the film so aptly shows.
Here are some nice comments by a member of the religion of peace:
North Carolina Muslim to Geert Wilders: Islam will dominate Europe, destroy Western civilization, tear out MP’s heart
Vickie
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Righteousone
Guest
:knight2:
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Elric
Guest
Im sorry, but my paranoia doesnt go that far.Behind closed doors…
What exactly are they doing behind closed doors?
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LaMar
Guest
The anti-Islamic bigotry on this forum is reminiscent of some of the same looney anti-Catholic ideas which were prevalent in the years just before the Civil War. People used to talk about how Catholics were loyal to the Pope, how they were inherently subhuman, and how they were a grave threat to the future of the United States.
Irish Catholics in particular were singled out for harsh treatment even in (already Catholic) New Orleans. One historical character was purported to have explained the deaths of a dozen immigrant workers on his steamboat with the statement that he didn’t care, and he went on to state that: “if I had my ni***rs working there, I would have been out a lot of money, but my steamboat is insured, and I can pick up some more of the dumb Irish tomorrow for almost nothing”.
So, you had the know-nothing party, all sorts of anti-Catholic vigilance committees, and every third protestant preacher in North America predicting the death of Western civilization because of the Catholic influx. The reality? A couple of decades later, thousands of Catholics served honorably on both sides of the Civil War, the Catholic church does its part for reconstruction, Catholics go on to serve in government offices, loyal to the constitution, and 100 years after all the conspiracy theories we had a Catholic president, who exported an American Catholicism that helped win the cold war in places like Hungary and Poland.
The same types of people who spooked my third great grandparents about Catholics are alive today, raging about Islam (and hispanic immigrants too). These people have no faith in the power of America to better people’s lives, or to instill a sense of Americanism in newcomers, despite the fact that their people came from elsewhere too. In essence, they have no faith in America itself. They point the fingers at others as bad Americans, but the reality is in the mirror.
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angelusm
Guest
There’s one problem about Fitna. It shows the truth about islam but it doesn’t show that the only solution of the problem is the return to Christian roots. The author defends gays but there’s no info about persecuting Christians. Holland offers homosexualism, pornography, abortion, euthanasia and total immorality. Not surprisingly muslims reject those “Dutch values”. The only way of defending against the islamic disaster is… the conversion of muslims. But who’s gonna do it if most of the Dutch are non believers???
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Elric
Guest
My Grandmother had a strong mistrust of the Japanise that she carried to her grave. She lived in a time when there was a very real threat of Japan invading our country (they were VERY close) while her husband was fighting them (he also fought in Europe and Africa for King and Country). I can understand why she had this mistrust and she was a wonderful person.
I really dont know what I am trying to say.
- Status