Jesus said lots of things. Please don’t pick and choose what you like and disregard the rest. Please, also, don’t use sensational statements like “Jesus is a liar” in post #38.
Then why is it Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus at the Transfiguration? They had been dead for centuries.
I agree with you, Jesus die for us-a communal gathering, not an individual Kingdom. Jesus chose 12, not 1; he also picked 72, not 1. We all belong to a church; a group of people so why not use these people (saints, apostles, Mary) to intercede for us.
Let’s look at James 5!
If we never need intercession from others, then why are we directed to specifically get other people (and in this case, very specific other people - as presbyter is translated as priest or elder) to pray to the Lord on our behalf?
Answer to your questions:
The same could be said of the Eucharist. Was Jesus lying about that? Why is it only Catholics and Orthodox who believe the bread and wine ‘are’ the Body and Blood of Christ. All the others have turned their backs on this fundamental teaching just as many of those who heard it from his own mouth did when he first taught it because the concept was too difficult for them to understand let alone stomach.
Do you ask anyone still here on earth to pray for you? That is also intercessory prayer. Praying to a saint is asking the saint to pray for you. I’m a convert from Protestantism, but I do ask different saints to pray for me as well as pray directly to God.
My understanding is that the saints and angels are not intermediaries as we know that term in our physical world - where a VIP is surrounded by close allies and one has to go through one of them to get to the VIP with our petition. We ask them to pray with us and since they are so much closer to God, their prayers (added to ours) make a difference.
How can you say it is"arrogant " to pray directly to Jesus? He Himself said " No. One comes to the Father except through me. also, I am the way ,the truth, and the life
Yes and he did not ever say to pray to a human.
I would have to disagree with this statement. It’s implied that we can pray to humans. Take the man at the back of the temple as an example. “Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus, a human (and fully divine), never said “no. You cannot pray to me, I’m a human.” He said “you are justified” or something like that. So we can obviously pray to other humans. It’s just a matter of accepting it or not.
It’s not arrogant to pray to Jesus but it is arrogant to reject intercessory prayer when He Himself gave it to us.
Catholics interpret those passages in reference to salvation. We think that “No one can come to the Father except through me” means no one can go to heaven except through Jesus, and we think that “I am the way” means Jesus is the way of salvation. Do you really think they mean you cannot go to the Father in prayer except by praying first to Jesus? I think there is evidence against that, because there are prayers that are directly to the Father, and there are Psalms that have us speaking to the other people in heaven – Psalms 103:20-21 and Psalms 148:1-2 are two examples of this. How do you interpret those Psalms?
The Psalms have us praying to other humans. Psalms 103:20-21 asks the people in heaven to join us in praising God. Why do you think we are allowed to ask them to bless the Lord but not allowed to ask them to pray for us?
Sorry but He never told anyone to pray to a human being. Moses,Abraham,David or any other of those who walked before Him. He specifically gave instructions on how to pray and only to God. The reason being is that he wants us to be sincere in our prayers and pray from our hearts and minds. Not some scripted words that were written by someone elseAnswer to your questions:
- No.
- It is true, in terms of salvation, but that doesn’t mean other people can’t pray for us to the Father.
- Who said he was lying? Of course he came to reveal the truth
That is because Jesus was considered to be the Messiah by the true believers of His times which He truly was. The man knew Jesus came to forgive in God’s name to all who believed and had faith. Also I think you are confused, as Jesus was “sent” by God in human form to walk amongst the people and teach the truth. He shared in God his father’s glory since before the foundation of the world .Also, I challenge you to provide me with the scripture passage where Jesus told anyone to pray to a human
You keep ignoring the Psalms. When we pray the Psalms, we are automatically speaking to other people in heaven besides God, because that’s what the Psalms do in places like Psalms 103:20-21 and Psalms 148:1-2. If we are not allowed to speak to people in heaven other than God, why do the Psalms have us do that?
He never instructed us to pray to the Holy Spirit either, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. The Bible shows us that it is not wrong to speak to saints and angels in Psalms 103:20-21 and Psalms 148:1-2. Even if we want to ask them for favor, Hosea 12:4 and Psalms 45:12 are examples of this. Don’t you see how Catholics can get out of this that we can speak to the saints and angels to ask them to pray for us?
First, you can pray to the saints without praying scripted words. Second, you can pray scripted words as sincerely or as insincerely as you can pray unscripted words. Third, the Bible gives us some scripted prayers – the Psalms – and they don’t only address God.
No only can you pray to a human, or ask them to intercede for you. You see the case of Solomon’s mom. You have to remember that saints and angels are our brothers who have gone ahead of us and are in the Grace of God. We don’t worship angels or saints but we give them esteem. And if they are in God’s grace, why couldn’t I ask them for some help since their with God. Were a family in Heaven in Earth, so even doh they are dead physically, spiritually they are more than alive.
And how do we know this? Since we don’t know who is in Heaven except God, Jesus, and all of God’s angels. How do we know who died and went to Heaven? Are we not to be resurrected on the final day? if so and all who have gone before us are supposed to be resurrected also, then how can they be in heaven? Are they not in their tombs?
You are using a Psalm to "automatically " pray to other people in heaven? Who are these people? According to Jesus in John 3 :13, "No One, has gone up to Heaven,except the one who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man. Did Jesus tell us a lie?
I think this pretty much settles the question. If the Virgin Mary weren’t there, we can imagine that Jesus would not have performed the miracle.