Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

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The Church has not always taught mandatory celibacy and scripture supports a man’s choice. If the first pope did not make it mandatory then all other popes are not following his example.
We are all bound by what ever discipline the church says we must obey…You are simply grasping at straws to see how much you can get away with

We don’t know what Peter might have said privately about this matter, there are no written records…The church is the supreme authority along with scripture

I heard a priest give a sermon and it said if any of these 3 are lacking you are not being given a full picture of what the church teaches

1 Sacred Scripture
2 sacred tradition
3 the magesterium

They must all be in agreement to discern what God asks of us, and imposes on us
 
You misinterpret this passage if you believe it is a positive promotion of bishops having one wife, rather than a restriction to them having one wife at most while at the same time restricting them even while married to chastity in regards to their duties. Bishops and priests have always been restricted, when even allowed marriage, to at a minimum complete continence while performing their liturgical duties. A minimum.
Professional athletes are also advised the same but that doesn’t mean you can’t get married.
And if marriage and the clerical state so conflict, it is necessarily understood it is the best discipline that they not coincide.
Other religions do it.
A calumnious lie, that should not be repeated, only repudiated.
marriedpriests.org/wordpress/
‘In the early church married men were allowed to priest and even bishops. However as time progressed into the middle ages it became very difficult for Rome to maintain separation of the man’s property and the church’s property. As a result many priest and bishops became quite rich and were passing these riches on to their children. Additionally many of the children of the priest’s and bishop’s children were availing themselves to Holy Orders simply to inherit their father’s position and wealth. In order to gain control of this, Rome issued a decree (I can’t remember which) that all priests and bishops were to be celibate (not married or widowed as well as without children). This prevented children from inheriting their father’s wealth, prestige and position of power in the church and in the community.’
St. Paul, and Tradition show that virginity is superior to marriage. Divine Tradition declares it throughout history along with sacred scripture. One is the greater good, one is the lesser. The discipline of the Church desires that her priests to the greatest extent observe the greater good.
There is nothing inferior about 2 parents raising a family. The Church would have no congregation without them.
The Council of Elvira demonstrates the proper historical understanding: 😃
It seemed good absolutely to forbid bishops, the priests, and the deacons, i.e. all clerics engaged in service at the altar, to have [sexual] relations with their wives and procreate children; should anyone do so, let me be excluded from the honor of the clergy.
This places the layman in an inferior position. It creates a caste system that Jesus never wanted and it alienates the clergy from the laity.
Also St. John Chrysostom, Bishop, Father, and Doctor of the Church:
'When I advise virginity, I pass no censure on marriage. . . for blame is allowed only in reference to a really bad act. But how can it attach to a Christian whose only reproach is, that he confines himself within a more modest sphere, and dares not aim at the highest efforts of virtue? I shall not, indeed, praise the vigor and energy of his courage; but neither shall I cast blame on timid reserve.
Our doctrine. . . proclaims marriage to be good, and virginity better.
. . . Marriage, which is good in itself, leads us to admire virginity, that is better, and outstrips it in dignity as much as the captain and the general are above the common soldier and sailor.’
This is why people came to the conclusion that sex is dirty but without sex there would be no priests.
 
Peter never told anyone that they couldn’t get married if they wanted to preach the gospel.
True, but let’s look at what Jesus does say:

[19:11] But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. [12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

[18:28] And Peter said, “Lo, we have left our homes and followed you.” [29] And [Jesus] said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, [30] who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:28-30)
 
You are using sources that are not in communion with Rome…I really think you need to speak with an apologist or a priest who is fully functioning in his pastoral duties to advise you

I don’t think it is in anyone’s intrest to listen to people who are open defiance of Holy Mother Church…

I don’t know where you are drawing your conclusion sex is dirty from the sources Shin gave?

I certainly have never , ever, heard that from any priest, or pope, or bishop…
 
The entire book and tradition does not support it either.
Ohhh but it does.

The real question here is given how clearly the bible speaks of the VALUE of celibacy, why do we not see an emphasis in YOUR church? That is a more substantive and serious question.

Mat 19:11-12 “…whoever can accept this [celibacy] ought to accept it.”
Mat 19:29 “And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life.”
1 Cor 7:7-8 “I wish that all were as I myself am [celibate]. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.”
1 Cor 7:27 “Are you free from a wife, do not seek marriage.”
1 Cor 7:32-35 “I want you to be free from anxieties…unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord…the married man the interests of the world…his interests are divided.”
1 Cor 7:38 “So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.”
1 Cor 7:40 “But in my judgment she is happier if she remains as she is [celibate].”
1 Timothy 5:12 “…and will incur condemnation for breaking their first pledge.”
Rev 14:4-5 “These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the first fruits of the human race for God and the Lamb. On their lips no deceit has been found; they are unblemished.”
 
Other religions do it.
Doesn’t matter.
This is why people came to the conclusion that sex is dirty but without sex there would be no priests.
Who cares what “people” think? The Church does not teach that sex is dirty. And just because virginity is better than marriage does not mean that sex is dirty or evil or bad.

St. Paul was in favor of people remaining unmarried (although he acknowledged marriage as well).

[7:32] I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; [33] but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, [34] and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband. (1 Corinthians 7:32-34)

Here’s what Vatican II taught on the matter, in article 16 of Presbyterorum Ordinis:
Perfect and perpetual continence for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven, commended by Christ the Lord and through the course of time as well as in our own days freely accepted and observed in a praiseworthy manner by many of the faithful, is held by the Church to be of great value in a special manner for the priestly life. It is at the same time a sign and a stimulus for pastoral charity and a special source of spiritual fecundity in the world. Indeed, it is not demanded by the very nature of the priesthood, as is apparent from the practice of the early Church and from the traditions of the Eastern Churches. where, besides those who with all the bishops, by a gift of grace, choose to observe celibacy, there are also married priests of highest merit. This holy synod, while it commends ecclesiastical celibacy, in no way intends to alter that different discipline which legitimately flourishes in the Eastern Churches. It permanently exhorts all those who have received the priesthood and marriage to persevere in their holy vocation so that they may fully and generously continue to expend themselves for the sake of the flock commended to them.

**Indeed, celibacy has a many-faceted suitability for the priesthood. **For the whole priestly mission is dedicated to the service of a new humanity which Christ, the victor over death, has aroused through his Spirit in the world and which has its origin "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man but of God (Jn 1:13). Through virginity, then, or celibacy observed for the Kingdom of Heaven, priests are consecrated to Christ by a new and exceptional reason. They adhere to him more easily with an undivided heart, they dedicate themselves more freely in him and through him to the service of God and men, and they more expeditiously minister to his Kingdom and the work of heavenly regeneration, and thus they are apt to accept, in a broad sense, paternity in Christ. In this way they profess themselves before men as willing to be dedicated to the office committed to them-namely, to commit themselves faithfully to one man and to show themselves as a chaste virgin for Christ and thus to evoke the mysterious marriage established by Christ, and fully to be manifested in the future, in which the Church has Christ as her only Spouse. They give, moreover, a living sign of the world to come, by a faith and charity already made present, in which the children of the resurrection neither marry nor take wives.

For these reasons, based on the mystery of Christ and his mission, celibacy, which first was recommended to priests, later in the Latin Church was imposed upon all who were to be promoted to sacred orders. This legislation, pertaining to those who are destined for the priesthood, this holy synod again approves and confirms, fully trusting this gift of the Spirit so fitting for the priesthood of the New Testament, freely given by the Father, provided that those who participate in the priesthood of Christ through the sacrament of Orders-and also the whole Church-humbly and fervently pray for it. This sacred synod also exhorts all priests who, in following the example of Christ, freely receive sacred celibacy as a grace of God, that they magnanimously and wholeheartedly adhere to it, and that persevering faithfully in it, they may acknowledge this outstanding gift of the Father which is so openly praised and extolled by the Lord. Let them keep before their eyes the great mysteries signified by it and fulfilled in it. Insofar as perfect continence is thought by many men to be impossible in our times, to that extent priests should all the more humbly and steadfastly pray with the Church for that grace of fidelity, which is never denied those who seek it, and use all the supernatural and natural aids available. They should especially seek, lest they omit them, the ascetical norms which have been proved by the experience of the Church and which are scarcely less necessary in the contemporary world. This holy synod asks not only priests but all the faithful that they might receive this precious gift of priestly celibacy in their hearts and ask of God that he will always bestow this gift upon his Church.
 
True, but let’s look at what Jesus does say:

[19:11] But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. [12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:11-12)
Is this saying priests can’t get married or is it saying serve God and stay celibate it if you can?
[18:28] And Peter said, “Lo, we have left our homes and followed you.” [29] And [Jesus] said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, [30] who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” (Luke 18:28-30)
Is this saying don’t get married if you want to be a priest?
 
You are using sources that are not in communion with Rome…I really think you need to speak with an apologist or a priest who is fully functioning in his pastoral duties to advise you

I don’t think it is in anyone’s intrest to listen to people who are open defiance of Holy Mother Church…

I don’t know where you are drawing your conclusion sex is dirty from the sources Shin gave?

I certainly have never , ever, heard that from any priest, or pope, or bishop…
I don’t know how old you are or what nationality you are but when I was growing up sex was something that was never mentioned. It was a dirty word.
 
Church teachings on faith and morals can never be at odds with God’s Will, as per Christ’s promise to Peter and to the Apostles. The Church teaches that those who leave her, knowing her to be necessary to salvation, have no hope of salvation. Check out the catechism.
That is not true. A person can always repent and besides, there may be circumstances that we are not aware of that may mitigate a sin in the eyes of God, who is the final judge.
 
marriedpriests.org/wordpress/
‘In the early church married men were allowed to priest and even bishops. However as time progressed into the middle ages it became very difficult for Rome to maintain separation of the man’s property and the church’s property. As a result many priest and bishops became quite rich and were passing these riches on to their children. Additionally many of the children of the priest’s and bishop’s children were availing themselves to Holy Orders simply to inherit their father’s position and wealth. In order to gain control of this, Rome issued a decree (I can’t remember which) that all priests and bishops were to be celibate (not married or widowed as well as without children). This prevented children from inheriting their father’s wealth, prestige and position of power in the church and in the community.’
Not only did you first repeat a lie about the Church’s motivations in history, but now you have linked to a site that encourages priests to break their vows, a sin, and live in sin.

You also quickly dismiss bishops and Fathers and Councils of the Church out of hand, without understanding their motivations or refusing to do so.

For a true understanding of chastity in the Church I recommend the book, ‘The Case for Clerical Celibacy’ by Alfons Maria Cardinal Stickler.

It demonstrates what the Church has always held, the beauty of chastity, and its place on the road to spiritual perfection.
 
I’m and old lady that has raised a family and I am an American by birth…Just because you hear something it doesn’t make it so…You need to cite sources and show proof

I don’t listen to just anyone regarding church teaching…The magesteruium is the teaching arm of the church…you know the guys that actually went through a seminary and know what they are talking about

I certainly don’t give any credence to a bunch of malcontents with a website trying to run the church from the pews…My friend if you want the truth go ask the experts…there are more kooks on the web with websites claiming to know the truth, than most of us have had hot dinners…Be careful who you listen to…the church is trying to get us to heaven, not just stir up dissidents
 
You are using sources that are not in communion with Rome…I really think you need to speak with an apologist or a priest who is fully functioning in his pastoral duties to advise you

I don’t think it is in anyone’s intrest to listen to people who are open defiance of Holy Mother Church…

I don’t know where you are drawing your conclusion sex is dirty from the sources Shin gave?

I certainly have never , ever, heard that from any priest, or pope, or bishop…
Sex was always thought of as a forbidden but necessary evil by the Church. It was never said that way but the message was always there. From what you wrote before you obviously think it’s dirty:
I think we should also remember this was done in broad dayligh,t on a public beach in the near vicinity of his parish

His acts were not just a romantic kiss but a lewd act that could have had them arrested…Petting in broad daylight, on a public beach, when any of his parishioners youngsters could have walked in on it is not only sinful, but it could land you in jail
Petting is not a lewd act. Most kids see worse than that every day on television.
 
Sex was always thought of as a forbidden but necessary evil by the Church…
Can you please provide a reference? I am interested to know how the Church considers something forbidden as necessary! :confused:
 
Can you please provide a reference? I am interested to know how the Church considers something forbidden as necessary! :confused:
The references have been stated if you’re following the posts. A clearer example would be the long standing teaching of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden being Adam having sex with Eve.
 
Now you are being insulting…If I thought sex was dirty I would have hardly married and had children

Petting in public is lewd…Perhaps you don’t think it is but I do and so does the law, and the church…I know many people who wont even allow their children to watch TV unless they are in the room with them to monitor what they are seeing…I don’t look to run my life by what is shown on TV

The last desperate attempt to win a discussion is when someone has to resort to insults…it proves they have lost the ability to discuss anything and they cut the ground right from under their feet

I have posted my last comment to you
 
Now you are being insulting…If I thought sex was dirty I would have hardly married and had children

Petting in public is lewd…Perhaps you don’t think it is but I do and so does the law, and the church…I know many people who wont even allow their children to watch TV unless they are in the room with them to monitor what they are seeing…I don’t look to run my life by what is shown on TV

The last desperate attempt to win a discussion is when someone has to resort to insults…it proves they have lost the ability to discuss anything and they cut the ground right from under their feet

I have posted my last comment to you
I apologize. Some of my comments were not funny but I was laughing when I wrote them.
 
Frankly I am not surprised that Mr. Cuitie decided to join the episcopal church, which is part of the anglican community invented by a selfish and lustful king (henry VIII) to divorce his lawfully wedded wife (Catherine of Aragon). Cutie and the episcopalians deserve each other… a church that stands for nothing for a “priest” that has not backbone or credibility.

It is obvious that Mr. Cutie was looking for a “church” that fits his lifestyle instead of adjusting his lifestyle to fit the Church. His desire to continue to be a “priest” while still being romantically involved with that woman was stronger than his will to respect the promises he made to our Lord and His Church.

Moreover, it is astonishing how he could so easily drop his belief in Papal Authority, Transubstantiation, male only priesthood, etc just for the sake of remaining a “priest” with that woman. I saw him in Miami a couple of years ago and he seemed so convinced of all Catholic doctrine (except celibacy discipline for priests). To me this shows that he was either a complete hypocrite or I can speculate that he recently fell apart during a mid-life crisis and let his carnal passions take over his life.

All I can say is good riddance, we are better off when men like these leave our Holy Roman Catholic Church !
 
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