Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

[Our_Refuge]

A few questions on this issue. When Father Cutie says his first Episcopal “Mass” the eucharist will be valid. It will become the Body and Blood of Christ. Episcoplians do not have a tabernacle so what will happen with the consecrated hosts that are not consumed.?

Father Cutie will no longer genuflect, make the sign of the cross to begin “mass”.Correct?

How can he hold on to the teachings of the Church on transubstantition, purgatory, Immaculate conception, Assumption and everything else that his new “church” denies?
I see some tough days ahead for Father Cutie.

 

[Tietjen]

The Church of England underwent a transformation due to the Reformation, but the Church of England dates back to the late 500s AD, at latest.

But we can agree to disagree.

Please present historical evidence of your claim since in the late 500s AD there was no England (as we know it) and thus there could not have been a Church of England. There was however, the Roman Catholic Church which began appearing throughout Britain at about the time you suggest. The Celtics from the North as well as missionaries from the Church came into England and the first Archbishop of Canterbury was Augustine. He was CATHOLIC, not Church of England or Anglican as you would like to believe. Britain was Catholic for approx another 1000 years until Henry VIII decided that he knew better than God’s Church how to “steer the ship.” This is all well documented and if you continue to argue the facts, you will come out looking rather silly. Perhaps if you took on a different fight… say… gravity. You might just have an easier time of convincing people that it doesn’t exist rather than refuting what ALL history books concede is the truth surrounding the Church and England.

 

[ron77nyc]

I have been following the posts and that is why I was asking my question. You have not proved a reference to your statement yet.

The interpretation of the Garden of Eden where the forbidden fruit is sex could be your own understanding but has never been a teaching of the Church.

It has never been an official on the books teaching but it was taught. As far as proving a reference, that’s self explanatory. If you tell people that virginity is more virtuous than being married and having a family then you are saying the clergy is better than you.

 

[DeusVeritas]

i might be new to the Catholic faith, but i have been on CAF long enough to realize that protestants do plenty of Catholic bashing and probably most Catholics, when they get a chance, want to give it right back.
i am not declaring that we should pick and choose as to which scandals are better than others. i was not Catholic during the time the priest sex abuse cases began appearing in the headlines. i remember being shocked and confused about this. so i was not on CAF to read any threads about how Catholics reacted to this scandal. i did not hear too much about it actually. i wasn’t reading Catholic journals or periodicals at the time. i am sure that many Catholics were pained and hurt over those scandals and continue to be so today. this is one priest who is gaining a lot of publicity because he was already in the public eye. i knew a man once who was raised Catholic and became an Episcopal priest.
he had been divorced and remarried. he was a wonderful man and served his community well outside the church also. we have lost touch, but he made an impression on me and was a man of great faith.

Yes…the bashing is equal opportunity not only on religious forums but forums in general throughout the internet. I tend to look at the forums here on CAF when it comes to the bickering that goes on as not representative of what goes in in real life.

In the Catholic news section what gets under peoples skin is the negative news. And like the secular news, its not the good news that gets most of the attention but the bad news.

I look at the Catholic Church as one big family BUT that does not mean that all Catholic’s have to take the responsibility upon themselves of apologizing for the sins committed by other Catholic’s.

The following is not for you Sorrows…but I feel a RANT comin’ on due to scandals like this one…

I find that whenever anything horrible has been done by another Catholic **all of sudden it becomes the responsibility for the rest of us Catholic’s to have apologize for the actions of others ** and this is not right. The only one who has taken the sins of the world upon himself for all time is Christ, no one else.

It sometimes infuriates me when the abuse scandals, what some Bishop did hundreds of years ago and so on is something that non-Catholic’s and other Christians unfortunately feel that every single Catholic on the planet has to make apologies for the actions of other Catholic’s.** Imagine if one had to take on the responsibility of having to apologize every single day for what Uncle Joe did 20, 30 years ago. **

I get annoyed by this kind of attitude and wish that people seeking someone to blame for the actions of others would understand that what individuals do of their own free will is not the responsibility of all Catholic’s to have to apologize for it. Yes, I can have righteous anger and speak out when I see a wrong but I am just sick and tired of someone else’s despicable behavior being put on the shoulder’s of all Catholic’s.

VENTING OVER…

 

[Roy5]

WOW! Fr. Cutie certainly has created a firestorm here on this thread.

I know my postings are resented by some, but here I go again, trying to find reconciliation within Christianity and beyond so that the Church can become an instrument of peace rather than a cause of misunderstanding and hostility. It’s obvious that many posters here are full of hostility directed at Protestantism. This troubles me.

1. “Trash receptacles.” Wild charge. There are numerous ministers around here, most of them evangelical, but some mainstream, who were former Catholics, a few of them former Catholic priests. They certainly aren’t trash, and may God forgive those who think like that. Why is it that Catholics who embrace Protestantism are judged so harshly? They may be right or wrong, but they have followed their consciences and understanding. I believe God will weigh all that. In my own view, of course, are sincere and informed Christians try their best to follow the teachings and example of Jesus, and why does that seem to anger so many posters?
2. The Episcopal Church, up until recent years, was the only mainstream denomination to have Protestant in its official name here in the USA - the PE Church, when I was a child. I hope Fr. Cutie is both happily married and enjoys serving as a priest in that denomination. The church to which the largest number of US presidents, starting with Washington, was the Episcopal Church. As everyone knows it has low, high and broad factions, what we sometimes call: “lazy, crazy and hazy”. The appeal to many is that it preserves a solemn liturgy while permitting wide variations of doctrinal belief. As long as you go with the “Book of Common Prayer” think as you like when it comes to dogma. I am not an Episcopalian, and am not attracted to that particular church, but have some sympathy for the freedom of conscience it permits. By the way, Henry VII broke from Rome but it was under Elizabeth I that Anglicanism became seriously Protestant. There is still, of course, an Anglo-Catholic wing, some of whose priests (like Newman) converted (and continue to convert) to Roman Catholicism.
3. No, I can’t accept the Biblical story as valid which says that God ordered Joshua to kill all the inhabitants of Jericho or that he commanded Saul to slay every single Amalekite, specifically listing men, women, children and ‘sucklings’. How can we condemn abortion and accept such a gruesome story as true? That suggests that Jehovah was more like Hitler than Jesus!
4. I presume that once upon a time the Church would have exercised its great power then to either have had Fr. Cutie executed, or at least banished to spend the rest of his life repenting in an isolated monastery, Thank God the Protestant founders of America provided for the separation of church and state here, a principle for years assailed by the Papacy (Pius IX, for example), but now apparently accepted since Vatican II by the Pope and certainly by the wonderful Catholic people who make up a quarter of our population. The influx of Hispanics seems to balance the enormous number of Catholics who continue to leave Catholicism, keeping he percentage about the same. I have scads of good Catholic friends, and some of us talk religion - without arguing.
5. The charge that mainstream Protestants “stand for nothing” made in a posting or two is grossly unfair. What most of them stand for, among other things, is the right of the faithful to think for themselves, to doubt, to hold various views on many questions. Protestants have sharply differing opinions on such matters as abortion, stem-cell research, ordination of women, gay and lesbian rights, death penalty, gamblng, serving alcohol at church functions, certain Sunday activities, etc. Their views of Catholicism would vary, too - some friendly and even admiring, others wary.

Again, God bless the whole world - no exceptions. I think God is simply too big to be contained in only one religion. I admire people of all faiths who honestly seek him and try their best to serve him. While I view God through the prism of Christ, who opened the windows (and gates) of heaven to/for me, I don’t denegrate those who follow another path. God is love and is not interested in punishing people because they don’t embrace all the truth, since none of us can claim to know all the truth. It was Harry Emerson Fosdick who once said: “I can only believe in a God whom I don’t understand.” I agree.

Sorry to be so long-winded.

 

[ron77nyc]

Stop making assumptions. ASK the person instead.

Why not compare it to what they can see on the internet?! When did “what’s on TV” become the standard for morality or for public displays of affection.

Regardless of standards, it’s entirely inappropriate for a priest to engage in displays of romantic or sexual affection because of his vows. He’s fornicating.

They didn’t find him in the act of fornicating. He was kissing and touching a woman. This is something that children should see their parents doing if the parents are in love.

 

[Tietjen]

No, and we’ve had ample evidence of that over the last decade in the Catholic Church (as has been pointed out). This latest turn of events, however, is just way too glib. He get’s caught with his hand in the cookie jar (no pun intended), then’s switches to a “church” where they’ve misplaced the lid to the cookie jar entirely. I want to know this: did he ever believe what the Catholic Church teaches? That’s what I meant by “it’s either true or it isn’t true.” I’m a rotten sinner, an habitual sinner, no better than he is and probably WORSE, in some ways. Despite my best efforts, I find myself rattling off the same list of trangressions every week to my confessor. So it isn’t about me or any of US (Catholics) being holier than thou. It’s about truth. What that the Episcopal Church teaches has this man suddenly come to believe? He got caught having an illicit affair and shazam! He no longer believes in the papacy? Can’t buy the bit about Mary’s Immaculate Conception or Her Assumption? Transubstantiation got a bit boring? What?

He’s joined an ecclesistical body where they have recently ordained an openly partnered homosexual as a “bishop,” where the presiding “bishop” is a woman who has openly stated that Christ is just one “vehicle” to the Divine, and where a lesbian “priest” who has openly stated that abortion is a “blessing” has been appointed to head a seminary. Why? He fell off his donkey on the road to Damscus because Our Blessed Lord appeared to him and said, “I was just yanking your chain when I said that bit about ‘upon this rock?’”

It’s just plain bizzare.

Exactly. His quick reactions to being caught seem to suggest that PERHAPS he never actually did believe Church Dogma. It’s one thing to get caught doing something you shouldn’t. You would either make amends or not. But it’s completely another thing to get caught and then to throw out your entire belief system as a form of defense over the action you were caught in. By embracing the Episcopal Church, he is denying the Eucharist, the papacy, the Church herself! Which is the greater sin here… breaking ones vows or turning your back completely on the Church founded by Christ??? I will pray for his soul.

 

[japhy]

They didn’t find him in the act of fornicating. He was kissing and touching a woman. This is something that children should see their parents doing if the parents are in love.

And something entirely inappropriate for a Roman Catholic priest to be doing.

 

[ron77nyc]

And something entirely inappropriate for a Roman Catholic priest to be doing.

Priests and bishops have done worse without the objection that this guy is getting for being a normal man. At least he is being honest and saying, “I can’t be celibate.” Maybe he can convert back after being an Episcopalian. They accept married Episcopalians. (That last part was not meant to be taken seriously.)

 

[JPUSC]

A few questions on this issue. When Father Cutie says his first Episcopal “Mass” the eucharist will be valid. It will become the Body and Blood of Christ. Episcoplians do not have a tabernacle so what will happen with the consecrated hosts that are not consumed.?

Father Cutie will no longer genuflect, make the sign of the cross to begin “mass”.Correct?

How can he hold on to the teachings of the Church on transubstantition, purgatory, Immaculate conception, Assumption and everything else that his new “church” denies?
I see some tough days ahead for Father Cutie.

Oh yeah, that’s right. Wouldn’t his Masses be valid?

 

[japhy]

It has never been an official on the books teaching but it was taught.

Still no evidence.

If you tell people that virginity is more virtuous than being married and having a family then you are saying the clergy is better than you.

Virginity and married life are not enemies to pit against each other, they’re two different goods; while marriage is necessary for the propagation of the human race, it will pass away, while virginity will not.

Catechism 1620:Both the sacrament of Matrimony and virginity for the Kingdom of God come from the Lord himself. It is he who gives them meaning and grants them the grace which is indispensable for living them out in conformity with his will. Esteem of virginity for the sake of the kingdom and the Christian understanding of marriage are inseparable, and they reinforce each:

Whoever denigrates marriage also diminishes the glory of virginity. Whoever praises it makes virginity more admirable and resplendent. What appears good only in comparison with evil would not be truly good. The most excellent good is something even better than what is admitted to be good. (St. John Chrysostom, De virg. 10,1G 48,540; Cf. John Paul II, Familiaris Consortio 16.)​

Vatican II on priestly training: Optatam Totius, 10:Students ought rightly to acknowledge the duties and dignity of Christian matrimony, which is a sign of the love between Christ and the Church. Let them recognize, however, the surpassing excellence of virginity consecrated to Christ, so that with a maturely deliberate and generous choice they may consecrate themselves to the Lord by a complete gift of body and soul.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Sorry to be so long-winded.

…not to mention*** so misguided***, dear friend! We forgive you! And we get it-you’re anti-Catholic rhetoric reveals your indoctrination by very zealous, misinformed people.
We also understand your “mission” here, to whom you were taught to believe to be “the whore of Babylon”- as most anti-Catholic indoctrinees were sadly told. Be assured, you will get no converts here, my friend!
We Catholics cherish the holy deposit of the True Faith-and we ain’t budgin’.

But you are welcome to stay so that the Holy Spirit can work in your heart…and maybe His Church will get a new convert! Peace be with you!

 

[StevieD]

This same situation has occurred several times in Ireland, priests who find a girl but still want to be ‘priests’. Makes you wonder whether they were ever really Catholics in the first place if they can apparently adopt a completely different religious perspective so quickly when it becomes convenient. Fr Cutie did say in an interview that “when you love someone you will do anything” - apparently not in his case.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Why would you judge your new Catholic faith by the actions of other humans? You don’t like others criticizing Cutie here because, as you say, he is only human, yet you are doing the same thing. We in the forums are only human, too, and we come to the forums to vent, ask questions, get opinions. Re your uncertainty about your new faith - you should have learned in RCIA that your faith and your decisions regarding it are between you and God; if you made your decision to convert because of other people, then that is sad.

well, if i was supposed to have learned in RCIA that my faith and decisions are between me and God, why is father cutie not allowed the same? why would you think that i decided to convert to Catholicism because of other people? nothing could be further from the truth.
we are all humans and we don’t know what God knows.
people make bad choices and because of the grace of God, good things can still happen.
criticism is necessary much of the time, but there were a couple of posters here that i thought went a little overboard.
believe me, i have ranted plenty of times here at CAF and i am thankful that i can, and i have been on the threads where the Catholics and protestants go back and forth and i find it all very unproductive.

 

[phes3]

Faher Cutie want to go with the flow of the “New christianity” ( birth control pills, divorce, gay priest, etc,etc) we all change: true but for good, some of us going steps back on the wrong way, only God is permanent. why? because only He is the Way, the Truth and the Life… I have the feeling for Mr Cutie that we all will see the news in a very near future: ex-catholic priest now episcopalian Alberto Cutie is getting divorce, (his wife having extra-marital afffair, abandon him, etc). then he will probably find out that all his sacrifice for the love of a woman is nothing compare with the Love of God.:banghead:By that time is probably going to be too late!!!:doh2:
We can only pray for him God have mercy on Alberto Cutie

 

[ron77nyc]

Still no evidence.

I don’t need evidence. I was raised Catholic and I have heard many odd stories. If you want evidence just speak to someone over the age of 80 and ask them what they were taught about sex and who taught it to them. If they answer honestly, you’ll be very shocked. Also ask them about suicide, limbo and marriage to non-Catholics.

 

[rguerra]

I don’t need evidence. I was raised Catholic and I have heard many odd stories. If you want evidence just speak to someone over the age of 80 and ask them what they were taught about sex and who taught it to them. If they answer honestly, you’ll be very shocked. Also ask them about suicide, limbo and marriage to non-Catholics.

ron77nyc, I have read a good sampling of your 688 posts in this forum and in my humble opinion you stopped being a faithful Roman Catholic a long time ago. Practically all of your 688 posts have been in contradiction of genuine Catholic Doctrine.

At least be honest with the members of this forum and remove the Catholic label from your profile. I would respect you much more if you admitted the truth and stop trying to confuse people with your deception.

“The devil was never grounded in the truth; there is no truth in him at all. When he lies he is speaking true to his nature, because he is a liar, and the father of lies.” John 8:44

 

[redrosetea]

I got this from Raymond Arroyo’s blog

FAR FROM CUTIE

On May 28th, Father Alberto Cutie, the media priest who made national headlines when he was photographed getting cozy with his girlfriend on a Miami beach, joined the Episcopal Church. If this were some individual church swapping it would be sad but not troubling. In this case, a priest, espoused to the Catholic Church has turned his back on bedrock beliefs he advocated and championed throughout his adult life.

It is one thing to fall and ask forgiveness, but quite another to say, as Fr. Cutie did in Miami’s Episcopal Cathedral the other day: “I am continuing my call to spread the message of God’s love and the vocation God gave me to priestly service.” This is a rather odd line of reasoning. It would be a bit like a married man, announcing to his wife: “I am going to share my love and continue my vocation as a husband-- with another woman!” The wife would likely hit him over the head with whatever was in reach. The Archdiocese of Miami, acting a bit more restrained, issued a strongly worded statement.

Archbishop John Favalora said Cutie had “separated himself from the communion of the Roman Catholic Church”, refused “submission to the Pope” and forfeited “his rights as a cleric.” He continued: “Fr. Cutie’s actions have caused grave scandal” that “led to division within the ecumenical community and the community at large.” Apparently the Episcopal bishop that welcomed Cutie and his fiancée (yes they are getting married) into that denomination never consulted with Archbishop Favalora. Anywhere else this would be considered abandonment.

For this extremely talented and telegenic priest it is a tragic last act. He may have relinquished the very thing that drew all those television producers to him over the years and moved them to build shows around him.

What my friend Father Cutie may not appreciate is that it was primarily his visual contradiction that made him so attractive to female viewers. They saw a handsome, articulate priest, who was unobtainable because of his vows and collar. Now that he has been obtained by his fiancée and jettisoned those vows, the mystique is shattered and the public persona will never be the same. Oh, no doubt “Padre Alberto” will return in some form as a family counselor or columnist. But it is unlikely that a mass audience will care. Oddly, it was his celibacy and his status as a Roman Catholic priest that made him interesting-- even fascinating to the media. Without that he is just another engaged minister. We will see how this drama plays out (probably as an overwrought telenovela coming to Latino TV). In the meantime keep Father Cutie and all priests in your prayers.

 

[redrosetea]

I also listened to Raymond and a priest on The World Over on EWTN discussing this…They felt that Fr used no discernment at all in changing his religion in 3 weeks time

The Episcopal church was a media circus and of course their bishop spoke about the love for a man and a woman, never mentioning their fornication and the fact one was a priest and forbidden to become involved in these actions

I really felt the whole things was tacky…We quietly receive other faiths into our church without making a mockery of their former religion…I think this whole things was a cheap publicity shot by the Episcopal bishop hoping to bring some of the priest other flock into his

They also talked about how Fervent Fr Cutie had been in his public praise for his catholic faith only a month prior to this…It makes me wonder what would have happen, had he not been caught…My speculation is he would have carried on just the way he had been for 2 years

He will now be involved in things that have been forbidden to us by scripture, and tradition with a church that openly flouts teaching of St Paul and the Old Testament, and the didache

He chose to turn his back on the True Presence, for his own carnal pleasures, and swapped a man made religion for one instituted by Christ, with apostolic succession

 

[ron77nyc]

ron77nyc, I have read a good sampling of your 688 posts in this forum and in my humble opinion you stopped being a faithful Roman Catholic a long time ago. Practically all of your 688 posts have been in contradiction of genuine Catholic Doctrine.

At least be honest with the members of this forum and remove the Catholic label from your profile. I would respect you much more if you admitted the truth and stop trying to confuse people with your deception.

“The devil was never grounded in the truth; there is no truth in him at all. When he lies he is speaking true to his nature, because he is a liar, and the father of lies.” John 8:44

Well I am a Catholic so that is not a lie. I am being very honest about what I believe. I really don’t know any Catholics who accept everything the Church teaches but I’m sure there are many. I just don’t know any except for those I’ve seen on CAF. If you want to be one of the Catholic police you should start with yourself then branch out to those around you and see if they accept all the Church teaches.