Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

[JReducation]

Just a few comments:

1. I am not sure if the confession would be valid from the Roman Catholic standpoint, although the Holy Communion would be valid, but illicit from the RC viewpoint.
2. What do most Anglicans such as yourself feel about the RC positon on the validity of your Sacraments? As you know, the RCC accepts the Baptism, but not the other Sacraments of the Anglican community.

In case of an emergency, any validly ordained priest can validly and licitly absolve from sin. The Church provides the faculties. There is no need for a bishop to do so in an emergency. It does not matter if the priest is Catholic or not, as long as his ordination is valid.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[japhy]

I am being very honest about what I believe. I really don’t know any Catholics who accept everything the Church teaches but I’m sure there are many.

I might not understand everything the Church teaches, and I might be reluctant to agree, but I know that I’m not the authority on these things, God is, and He has given authority to His Church and specifically to those who lead it (the Bishops in union with the Pope). So, at the end of the day, I submit my will to the teachings of the Church which are true, because God – Who cannot deceive nor be deceived – has revealed them to her.

It’s really hard in this day and age to accept everything the Church teaches. But the reward far outweighs the struggles and hardships we endure for it.

 

[JReducation]

A few questions on this issue. When Father Cutie says his first Episcopal “Mass” the eucharist will be valid. It will become the Body and Blood of Christ. Episcoplians do not have a tabernacle so what will happen with the consecrated hosts that are not consumed.?

Father Cutie will no longer genuflect, make the sign of the cross to begin “mass”.Correct?

How can he hold on to the teachings of the Church on transubstantition, purgatory, Immaculate conception, Assumption and everything else that his new “church” denies?
I see some tough days ahead for Father Cutie.

Episcopalians are not as sticky about these dogmas as are other more fundamentatlist Protestant communities. The problem in the Episcopalian communion is that lack of consistency on the these doctrines and the fact that they don’t seem to discuss them among themselves too much.

You may have one group that is very consistent with the Catholic Church and another who believes in these doctrines, but avoids discussing them and teaching them too publicly lest they look too Catholic.

The fact is that the Episcopalians have never taken a strong stand against these doctrines, as a united community. There have been pockets and individual theologians who have gone both ways on these. I guess that’s part of the weakness of not having a centralized magisterium.

I don’t believe that Father Albert will find much opposition to his believes regarding these doctrines.

Judging from the quickness with which the Episcopal bishop received Father Albert into their ecclesial community, my guess would be that this particular diocese does not demand that converts have knowledge of the Episcopal faith and give their assent. Otherwise, they would subject them to an initiation process as the Catholics, Jews, Mulsims and Mormons do.

You can always tell a community’s seriousness concerning its faith by its membership requirements.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shin]

The rewards for the toils of virtue are dispassion and spiritual knowledge. For these are mediators of the kingdom of heaven, just as passions and ignorance are mediators of eternal punishment. It is because of this that he who seeks these rewards for the sake of human glory and not for their intrinsic goodness is rebuked by the words of Scripture, ‘You ask, and do not receive, because you ask wrongly’ (Jas. 4:3) Many human activities, good in themselves, are not good because of the motive for which they are done. For example, fasting and vigils, prayer and psalmody, acts of charity and hospitality are by nature good, but when performed for the sake of self-esteem they are not good. In everything we do God searches out our purpose to see whether we do it for Him or for some other motive. When you hear the words of Scripture, "Thou shalt render to every man according to his work’ (Ps. 62:12. LXX), do not think that God bestows blessings when something is done for the wrong purpose, even though it seems to be good. Quite clearly He bestows blessings only when something is done for the right purpose. For God’s judgement looks not at the actions but at the purpose behind them.

St. Maximos the Confessor

The above is what I think of Fr. Cutie’s motivations. Many people think other people are good, because these people treat them in good ways. But these people do it for their own satisfaction, they may pretend it is for God’s, but it is for their own sake, and so God becomes whoever they please Him to be, rather than who He truly is.

These people are sinners, not good people.

They have their reward.

God help them before it is too late! And so too us all. Amen.

 

[bobzills]

In case of an emergency, any validly ordained priest can validly and licitly absolve from sin. The Church provides the faculties. There is no need for a bishop to do so in an emergency. It does not matter if the priest is Catholic or not, as long as his ordination is valid.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

What would be an emergency? Can the SSPX priests claim an emergency because of the explosion of annulments and decrease in the number of seminarians today as compared with fifty years ago?
Further, can a Catholic go to confession to an Orthodox priest?
Also, I noticed that there are some Orthodox who accept the Anglican Sacraments to a certain extent? For example, according to the official position as promulgated by an Endimousa Synod under His All-Holiness of most blessed memory, Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople, it is that in the absence of an Orthodox Priest an Orthodox Christian can and should, if necessary, partake of the Sacraments from an Anglican Priest…Furthermore, this is also the Official position of the Greek Archdiocese in America, not only by extension of the Synodal Decree of Constantinople, but also as directly promulgated by the eparchial synod.

Would not that present a problem for a Catholic Orthodox reunion, since the RCC does not recognise the Anglican Sacraments of Holy Eucharist and confession.
But if these Orthodox are correct, then would not Father Cutie be joining an Apostolic Church with valid Sacraments?

 

[JReducation]

What would be an emergency?

In the Catholic Church an emergency is when the person in need of absolution is in danger of death. If the priest believes that the person is in danger of death, he may absolve and the absolution is valid and licit. An example would be someone who collapses with a heart attack in your presence or you come across someone in a auto accident on the road and they are losing consciousness, etc.

Can the SSPX priests claim an emergency because of the explosion of annulments and decrease in the number of seminarians today as compared with fifty years ago?

No. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have already said that these are not states of emergency.

Further, can a Catholic go to confession to an Orthodox priest?

Yes, if there person is in need of confession and does not have access to a Catholic priest. Orthodox priests have faculties granted to them by an Ordinary. Orthodox bishops have episcopal sees; therefore, they are Ordinaries and can grant faculties.

Also, I noticed that there are some Orthodox who accept the Anglican Sacraments to a certain extent? For example, according to the official position as promulgated by an Endimousa Synod under His All-Holiness of most blessed memory, Patriarch Meletios of Constantinople, it is that in the absence of an Orthodox Priest an Orthodox Christian can and should, if necessary, partake of the Sacraments from an Anglican Priest…Furthermore, this is also the Official position of the Greek Archdiocese in America, not only by extension of the Synodal Decree of Constantinople, but also as directly promulgated by the eparchial synod.

I don’t know about this, so I can’t speak to it. But I would imagine that they have some limits and specific criteria.

Would not that present a problem for a Catholic Orthodox reunion, since the RCC does not recognise the Anglican Sacraments of Holy Eucharist and confession.

Not being familiar with the rule and the criteria, I can’t tell you.

But if these Orthodox are correct, then would not Father Cutie be joining an Apostolic Church with valid Sacraments?

Not necessarily. Sacraments celebrated by Fr. Cutie would be valid, because he was ordained by a Catholic bishop. But the Episcopal communion is not even a Church. None of the Protestant Reformation communities are churches. You must have apostolic succession to be a church. There are other Anglicans who are validly ordained, because they were ordained by a valid bishop. But that does not make the Anglican community an Apostolic Church. In those cases it is the individuals who have the successioin, not the entire community. Fr. Cutie will always have Apostolic Succession. Not being a bishop, he cannot pass it on. It dies with him.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DonLeon]

My only comment in the matter of Father Cutie is that another son of the Church has seen fit to betray Jesus, much as Judas has. But then, I am being judgemental, which I should not be. I only hope Our Good Lord will forgive Father Cutie for his actions.

PAX DOMINI

ShalomAleichem

 

[JReducation]

The rewards for the toils of virtue are dispassion and spiritual knowledge. For these are mediators of the kingdom of heaven, just as passions and ignorance are mediators of eternal punishment. It is because of this that he who seeks these rewards for the sake of human glory and not for their intrinsic goodness is rebuked by the words of Scripture, ‘You ask, and do not receive, because you ask wrongly’ (Jas. 4:3) Many human activities, good in themselves, are not good because of the motive for which they are done. For example, fasting and vigils, prayer and psalmody, acts of charity and hospitality are by nature good, but when performed for the sake of self-esteem they are not good. In everything we do God searches out our purpose to see whether we do it for Him or for some other motive. When you hear the words of Scripture, "Thou shalt render to every man according to his work’ (Ps. 62:12. LXX), do not think that God bestows blessings when something is done for the wrong purpose, even though it seems to be good. Quite clearly He bestows blessings only when something is done for the right purpose. For God’s judgement looks not at the actions but at the purpose behind them.

St. Maximos the Confessor

The above is what I think of Fr. Cutie’s motivations. Many people think other people are good, because these people treat them in good ways. But these people do it for their own satisfaction, they may pretend it is for God’s, but it is for their own sake, and so God becomes whoever they please Him to be, rather than who He truly is.

These people are sinners, not good people.

They have their reward.

God help them before it is too late! And so too us all. Amen.

You have to be careful here. When St. Maximus said this he was speaking objectively. He was not applying it to a specific person. In Catholic tradition we cannot apply these moral judgments to subjects unless we know with certainty what is in the subject’s heart. Otherwise we are speculating about the heart and conscience of another person. That is a violation of the individual’s conscience, something that the Church forbids. Only those who know the person’s conscience can apply this to an individual. Such a person may be a spiritual director or confessor.

That’s why the Church excommunicates or suspends, but does not make a statement about the goodness or evil of the person, only the observable action. If you read Archbishop Favallora’s letter, he acknowledges that Fr. Albert did a great deal of good and that the good that he did is not nullified by this current action. However, this current action places him outside of communion with the Church. The Archbishop stops short of saying that Fr. Albert is evil. He does not know this, nor does anyone else.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

My only comment in the matter of Father Cutie is that another son of the Church has seen fit to betray Jesus, much as Judas has. But then, I am being judgemental, which I should not be. I only hope Our Good Lord will forgive Father Cutie for his actions.

PAX DOMINI

ShalomAleichem

I liked the Archbishop’s statement. Let us wait and see if this is another prodigal son and comes home in the end.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DonLeon]

I liked the Archbishop’s statement. Let us wait and see if this is another prodigal son and comes home in the end.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I pray so, for he has done much good.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Shin]

I liked the Archbishop’s statement. Let us wait and see if this is another prodigal son and comes home in the end.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

We are all sinners, and there is no reason to refrain from stating it. To do so is a great error.

There are certain actions we can quite clearly see proceed not from God’s supernatural graces or charity, because they are objectively sinful. We need not make any final, dogmatic judgements as to the interior life, that is reserved for God – that is the restraint we have, but we must be realistic about the apparent state of things, and not proceed with a false, in fact blasphemous view that sins are committed through the grace of God

You are a sinner. You do nothing good. Only God does what is truly good. St. Francis would be pleased to hear it rather than rejecting it. He would rejoice. Someone knew his true state. The proud reject it.

Only when Christ truly works in man is there true good. We must have a generous view, but not a false one.

I too am a great sinner. I do nothing good.

This man, Fr. Cutie, is a public notorious sinner. His actions should be pointed out to him as the road to Hell, for his own good – should have been long ago. Obviously he did not fear a proper respect, nor have a proper understanding of God’s Church, for quite a long time, and nevertheless lived a life of horrendous sin in the very face of God.

He is about to continue to do so in an even more horrific and sacrilegious stage, offering the Eucharist to heretics while living a life of fornication. Christ tells us where such people go, without caveats when He does.

There is a great need for the fear of sin and fear of God in these times. People who do not teach this, enable sin, they do not defeat it. They place people on the road to Hell, a comfortable road. . . for a short time.

We must love God and fear sin out of love of Him, and fear of Hell. The latter spurs on the beginner, and can rarely be skipped – when it is normally it is simply a person living a love of wishful thinking, and no real love. Because sin is Hell.

When a person treats Fr. Cutie with kid gloves, and all others at all times, that person only leads others to embrace the sinful path as one that is acceptable, rather than warning them of the true consequences. The consequences of this… can be hard for your soul too. Can condemn you greatly. This is a warning.

But who, being told that, would have the humility to hear it, pray over it, and take at least a piece of it to heart?

St. Francis ora pro nobis.

'During our sojourn in this world, we should learn from the saints now in heaven, how to love God. The pure and perfect love of God they enjoy there, consists in uniting themselves perfectly to his will. It would be the greatest delight of the seraphs to pile up sand on the seashore or to pull weeds in a garden for all eternity, if they found out such was God’s will. Our Lord himself teaches us to ask to do the will of God on earth as the saints do it in heaven: “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”

Because David fulfilled all his wishes, God called him a man after his own heart: “I have found David. . . a man according to my own heart, who shall do all my wills.”’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘Margeret Mary Alacoque said: “I wanted no one to remember me save to scorn me, humble me and insult me; for indeed, that is all I deserved.”’

St. Bernadette Soubirous

 

[JReducation]

We are all sinners, and there is no reason to refrain from stating it. To do so is a great error.

There are certain actions we can quite clearly see proceed not from God’s supernatural graces or charity, because they are objectively sinful. We need not make any final, dogmatic judgements as to the interior life, that is reserved for God – that is the restraint we have, but we must be realistic about the apparent state of things, and not proceed with a false, in fact blasphemous view that sins are committed through the grace of God

You are a sinner. You do nothing good. Only God does what is truly good. St. Francis would be pleased to hear it rather than rejecting it. He would rejoice. Someone knew his true state. The proud reject it.

Only when Christ truly works in man is there true good. We must have a generous view, but not a false one.

I too am a great sinner. I do nothing good.

This man, Fr. Cutie, is a public notorious sinner. His actions should be pointed out to him as the road to Hell, for his own good – should have been long ago. Obviously he did not fear a proper respect, nor have a proper understanding of God’s Church, for quite a long time, and nevertheless lived a life of horrendous sin in the very face of God.

He is about to continue to do so in an even more horrific and sacrilegious stage, offering the Eucharist to heretics while living a life of fornication. Christ tells us where such people go, without caveats when He does.

There is a great need for the fear of sin and fear of God in these times. People who do not teach this, enable sin, they do not defeat it. They place people on the road to Hell, a comfortable road. . . for a short time.

We must love God and fear sin out of love of Him, and fear of Hell. The latter spurs on the beginner, and can rarely be skipped – when it is normally it is simply a person living a love of wishful thinking, and no real love. Because sin is Hell.

When a person treats Fr. Cutie with kid gloves, and all others at all times, that person only leads others to embrace the sinful path as one that is acceptable, rather than warning them of the true consequences. The consequences of this… can be hard for your soul too. Can condemn you greatly. This is a warning.

But who, being told that, would have the humility to hear it, pray over it, and take at least a piece of it to heart?

St. Francis ora pro nobis.

'During our sojourn in this world, we should learn from the saints now in heaven, how to love God. The pure and perfect love of God they enjoy there, consists in uniting themselves perfectly to his will. It would be the greatest delight of the seraphs to pile up sand on the seashore or to pull weeds in a garden for all eternity, if they found out such was God’s will. Our Lord himself teaches us to ask to do the will of God on earth as the saints do it in heaven: “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”

Because David fulfilled all his wishes, God called him a man after his own heart: “I have found David. . . a man according to my own heart, who shall do all my wills.”’

St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘Margeret Mary Alacoque said: “I wanted no one to remember me save to scorn me, humble me and insult me; for indeed, that is all I deserved.”’

St. Bernadette Soubirous

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I understand the concept of sin and the objective sinfulness of Fr. Albert’s actions. But I still believe the Archbishop’s letter covered all the basics without the harshness or are you in disagreement with the Archbishop’s letter?

Personally, I liked it. I also appreciated the letter that he sent to those who live and work in his archdiocese. He said that the matter is closed and the Church has to move on. There would be no more public discussions on the subject.

There is a point where you have to move on or something can become such a preocupation that you do spiritual and psychological harm to yourself and the community. Our own Holy Father St. Francis said this to our first brothers. After charitable fraternal correction had been given, the brothers and sisters were to let the sinner go and move on. They were never to make a condemnatory remark about the sinner, but should limit themselves to preach about penance and those who do not do penance.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pmoo]

well, if i was supposed to have learned in RCIA that my faith and decisions are between me and God, why is father cutie not allowed the same? why would you think that i decided to convert to Catholicism because of other people? nothing could be further from the truth.
we are all humans and we don’t know what God knows.
people make bad choices and because of the grace of God, good things can still happen.
criticism is necessary much of the time, but there were a couple of posters here that i thought went a little overboard.
believe me, i have ranted plenty of times here at CAF and i am thankful that i can, and i have been on the threads where the Catholics and protestants go back and forth and i find it all very unproductive.

But this is what forums are for. We aren’t solving world issues; we are venting. I agree that Fr. Cutie will be judged by God and not us. It’s just odd that you choose to defend an adultering priest, who kept his secret for TWO years and would still be keeping it if that lifeguard had not photgraphed him.

On the other hand, I agree with you that some posters do go overboard IN MY OPINION. However, that is the nature of the beast of these forums. People are upset possibly more so because of his apparant lack of humility and regret. I said this elsewhere. It’s not like he decided to step own on his own while he sorted out his problems. He diddled away until he got caught and then with very little tiime or thought, made a sudden religious conversion.

Welcome to Catholicism, by the way. I converted two years ago myself.

 

[pmoo]

I liked the Archbishop’s statement. Let us wait and see if this is another prodigal son and comes home in the end.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you Br. Jr. OSF

You really spend so much time here giving your opinions and sharing information about the life of priests.

It’s sad that Cutie is giving up his faith for a twice-divorced woman. Can this marriage last when her other two did not? Will he have given it all up for a woman from whom he might also be divorced?

 

[redrosetea]

I might not understand everything the Church teaches, and I might be reluctant to agree, but I know that I’m not the authority on these things, God is, and He has given authority to His Church and specifically to those who lead it (the Bishops in union with the Pope). So, at the end of the day, I submit my will to the teachings of the Church which are true, because God – Who cannot deceive nor be deceived – has revealed them to her.

It’s really hard in this day and age to accept everything the Church teaches. But the reward far outweighs the struggles and hardships we endure for it.

I am not a good scripture quoter, but in the gospels we are told that people said directly to Christ who can do this, these are hard sayings, and from that time on the walked with him no more

Christ asked St Peter if he was also going to leave…Peter said You have the words of everlasting life to whom shall I go?

There was no account in the scripture of Christ pleading with those people to remain a follower, He let them go their way

How will He judge them? We don’t know, but we are told to enter by the narrow path for the road to hell is broad

Poor sinner than I am ,and have been, I want to do my best not to offend God by demanding I will only do what makes me happy

 

[bkovacs]

If he would have used his brains, he could have become Eastern Orthodox. I guess he’d rather be in communion with heretics that have absolutley no apostolic succession whatsoever.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

If he would have used his brains, he could have become Eastern Orthodox. I guess he’d rather be in communion with heretics that have absolutley no apostolic succession whatsoever.

He still would not have been permitted to marry, as he is already ordained. In Orthodoxy, a man can be ordained if he is married or single. Once he is ordained, he cannot marry.

And the Eastern Orthodox are at least formal heretics at this point in history.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Well I am a Catholic so that is not a lie. I am being very honest about what I believe. I really don’t know any Catholics who accept everything the Church teaches but I’m sure there are many. I just don’t know any except for those I’ve seen on CAF. If you want to be one of the Catholic police you should start with yourself then branch out to those around you and see if they accept all the Church teaches.

Yes, sir, there are many others like yourself…“cafeteria” catholics don’t lie, they are very persistent and bold in their errors -that’s the difference.
You could always go the way of Fr.Cutie, and attend an ecclesial community that suits all of your whims.
But it would be so much more admirable to "seek the truth and pursue it"in the True Church!
(I’m praying you choose that one

 

[JKirkLVNV]

And the Eastern Orthodox are at least formal heretics at this point in history.

My apologies…I meant to write “material heretics.”

 

[bobzills]

My apologies…I meant to write “material heretics.”

Has there been an official statement from the Pope that such is the case? I thought that the current thinking is that many of the issues which divide RC and EO can be resolved through patient theological cooperation and understanding and attributed to a large extent to psychological and philosophical differences in modes of thinking and understanding between East and West.