Fla.'s 'Father Oprah' joins Episcopal Church

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What does it mean to pass judgement on someone? I interpret that to mean we cannot know whether someone will be damned by his/her actions, not that we cannot judge for ourselves as to a person’s character.

For example, I think that Father Cutie lacks moral character because of the following:
  1. He made a promise of celibacy and violated it.
  2. He made a promise to be obedient to his bishop.
Cutie not only violated these things, but as I understand it never consulted his bishop in this matter for a single moment. Also, he continued to serve whilst immersed in his sin. To me, this does not even show concern for those whom he was a leader. As parishioners, we look to our priests as models of the faith, people to learn from. In doing so, we place trust in them. He has violated that trust in the worst possible way, and he seems content to publicize it. I would feel terrible, if I was a member of his parish.

In my my mind, his entire moral character is suspect, to say the least. Sadly, it is what I have come to expect with personalities I meet in the mass media.

Am I wrong to “judge” him on these matters?

Thanks,

Lisa
 
What does it mean to pass judgement on someone? I interpret that to mean we cannot know whether someone will be damned by his/her actions, not that we cannot judge for ourselves as to a person’s character.

For example, I think that Father Cutie lacks moral character because of the following:
  1. He made a promise of celibacy and violated it.
  2. He made a promise to be obedient to his bishop.
Cutie not only violated these things, but as I understand it never consulted his bishop in this matter for a single moment. Also, he continued to serve whilst immersed in his sin. To me, this does not even show concern for those whom he was a leader. As parishioners, we look to our priests as models of the faith, people to learn from. In doing so, we place trust in them. He has violated that trust in the worst possible way, and he seems content to publicize it. I would feel terrible, if I was a member of his parish.

In my my mind, his entire moral character is suspect, to say the least. Sadly, it is what I have come to expect with personalities I meet in the mass media.

Am I wrong to “judge” him on these matters?

Thanks,

Lisa
What your are judging is what you can see. There is nothing wrong with making a judgment on what we can see.

We are not allowed to judge what we cannot see, meaning the state of a person’s soul or their conscience.

If I said that Fr. Cutie is going to hell, that would be inappropriate and contrary to charity.

If I said that Fr. Cutie is in a state of sin, that is a subjective judgment and not allowed. But if I say that what he did is sinful, that is truth. A person can commit a sin and not be culpable. By saying that he committed a sin we are not saying that he is culpable of sin. We do not know his conscience. We do not know God’s mercy. There are so many unknowns that we cannot make that kind of statement.

But we can call an action sinful, if it is sinful.

You’re OK

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
As Benedictgal and I have pointed out, what is wrong here is that scripture must always reflect the faith of the Church. The scriptures were compiled in a systematic manner to reflect the faith of the Church that already existed.

When Paul writes here he is speaking about avoiding behaviors that are dangerous to the soul. These were behaviors that were observable, qualifiable and quantifiable. If one wants to say that a celibate man or woman must avoid occasions that may lead one to sin against celibacy, that is consistent with the faith of the Church and the Church’s application of Paul’s message. It is appropriate to say that one must also avoid those who engage in such activities. It is inappropriate to presume that those people are evil. Their choices are gravely sinful. Their subjective status is unknown to us.

I hope my explanation is clearer than beforer.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
I’m not talking about Fr. Alberto. He knows the Church will never let him get married so he left. I’m talking about serious abusers of clerical power who were allowed to serve the Church. Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado founded the Legion of Christ. He led a double life and it was well known to all who were close to him. Paul Marcinkus was responsible for the Vatican Bank Scandal. Pope Paul VI hired him, Pope John Paul II stayed close to him and he was protected by the Holy See. Then there is the Canadian Holocaust and the Irish sex abuse scandal. These things do serious damage to the Church. I don’t think this would have happened with the less sophisticated methods of the apostles. St. Paul would have physically thrown these guys out all by himself if someone told him he had to consider the magisterium and tradition before he made his decision.
 
I’m not talking about Fr. Alberto. He knows the Church will never let him get married so he left. I’m talking about serious abusers of clerical power who were allowed to serve the Church. Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado founded the Legion of Christ. He led a double life and it was well known to all who were close to him. Paul Marcinkus was responsible for the Vatican Bank Scandal. Pope Paul VI hired him, Pope John Paul II stayed close to him and he was protected by the Holy See. Then there is the Canadian Holocaust and the Irish sex abuse scandal. These things do serious damage to the Church. I don’t think this would have happened with the less sophisticated methods of the apostles. St. Paul would have physically thrown these guys out all by himself if someone told him he had to consider the magisterium and tradition before he made his decision.
I’m going to speculate here too. Maybe that’s the reason that Paul was not pope.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
THE TRAGEDY OF MR. ALBERTO CUTIE

By Fr. Miguel Grave de Peralta
June 1, 2009

Many predicted that once the former Catholic priest, Alberto Cutie, was caught (whether planned or unplanned is irrelevant) cavorting with a young divorced mother in his congregation, he would leave the priesthood and join another Christian Church. In fact he claims to have done that so he may, according to the press, marry his girlfriend. But I wonder if Mr. Cutie is aware of what he is getting into now that he is seeking to serve as an ordained minister in the Protestant Episcopal Church.

I was an Episcopalian minister for 8 years. Having been raised a Southern Baptist, I was drawn to all things historical and religious in college after asking the usually dangerous question, “What happened after the Bible?” Joining what was then called the Protestant Episcopal Church (now just the Episcopal Church), I finished my theological studies in the Episcopalian seminary in New York City and went to work as an ordained Episcopal minister with my wife and a baby on the way.

My time in seminary (mid to late 80s) was, to say the least, volatile. Most of the seminarians were active homosexuals, our neighbors in student housing was a lesbian couple with their young son. Most of the religious courses offered assumed that what the Bible taught and Christians believed for most of its two-thousand year history was either wrong or at best warped. The few of us who believed what the Bible taught and wanted to live our lives as Christians have been trying to live it for 20 centuries kept insisting to each other that this was “New York” or that it was an “artificial” academic environment not reflective of the “pastoral trenches” we would find in the diocesan parish. We were wrong.

I’ve been there, done that and have the scars to prove it. What Mr. Cutie has signed up for is a religious organization that does not require its members or its clergy to believe in anything except “Thou shall not require anyone to believe in anything.” As an example, when Mr. Cutie was Fr. Alberto, he probably believed (he certainly taught) that in the Catholic Mass, ordinary bread and wine becomes the Body and Blood of Christ. He can still believe that as a Protestant Episcopalian but the belief is optional. He can continue to believe that his new bishop is a successor to the original Apostles but it is optional. He can continue to believe that Jesus Christ, after being dead for three days, rose from the dead and by His death defeated death, but it is optional. In essence what he has done is left a Church with one Teaching Authority and joined an organization with as many authorities as there are members. He has embraced the trinity of I-Me-Mine.

Perhaps Mr. Cutie has accepted the error that his bishop expressed on Spanish television (Univision) when he said the Episcopal Church is a Catholic Church. The bishop may say whatever he pleases just like I can say I am the president of the United States of America. However, when the Catholic Church, with over a billion members and the Orthodox Churches with almost half a billion members, being the oldest Christian families in the world, neither recognize the bishop as a bishop nor any sacraments of that bishop’s denomination as being valid or licit, well now there may be other things to say besides (as one television hostess said) that the bishop is “simpatico”. If anything, this is another example of the exception proving the norm and that norm is found in the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

The tragedy of this is that in desiring to marry his girlfriend, Mr. Cutie has also married 1) clergy, including “bishops”, who are practicing homosexuals; 2) rejection of the example of Christ who chose an all-male priesthood 3) the dogmas of Christians since the beginning, including but not limited to the Eucharist; 4) the entire sacramental system upon which Christian living is based; 5) last but not least he has married the philosophy of the age. It is an old philosophy whispered in the garden to Eve by the Serpent, “You will be like God.”

Much if any of this will be discussed by the mainstream media. It is the prophet of this old philosophy. But for all of us priests, celibate or married, who strive and struggle every day to be obedient to our vows and to the Church established by Christ, the truth remains and He has set us free.

----The Rev. Fr. Miguel Grave de Peralta is the Parish Administrator of St. Ignatius of Antioch, Melkite Catholic Church in Augusta, Georgia
This is an excellent presentation. Thank you.
 
Quite confusing…on purpose I guess. This so called ‘priest’ who was committing sin had already self ex-communicated himself anyway so whats the big deal. And since he was defiant ,dating a woman while pretending to obey the RCC and its rules on morals…he has just become ‘honest’ in a way. …As Benedict Arnold did back during revolutionary times…he betrayed his oath to the colonists and joined the enemy…England…among the largest slave holder empires of all times. Like termits the agents of satan have infliltrated our church as they have all churchs!.protecting one another,moving around from parish to parish to school…but eventually they get exposed (good word) and become just dirty ole men hoping to be rewarded by the gawd they obey…God cannot be fooled…trained agents go into seminarys and become agents of error…and slaves of the wealthy ruling class…but not every college is NotraDame…many do have Christian backbones and values…and with the cross of Jesus going on before we will win back some souls anyway…not easy but going uphill and against the wind never is…
 
Of course I had never heard of this priest until the scandal. Did he ever believe in the Real Presence? He had been cavorting with a ‘divorced’ woman for a while. He broke his holy vows! Sure he is free to go wherever his behavior is ‘welcomed’ but he has turned his back on Christ. He can civilly ‘marry’ this divorced woman too but I would place a bet that it would not last. Would not really be a marriage in the first place. Somewhere along the line whether it was his looks or fame----well it was the demon, that brought him down. And he gave scandal too. Prayers for his soul are needed for these are grave sins.
 
Could it not be possible that he is converting to Episcopalianism in order to marry this woman, and then revert to being a Catholic priest again? Can’t an Episcopalian priest who is married convert to Catholicism and keep his wife? Wouldn’t this be a possibility for (Mr. Fr.?) Cutie?
That is manipulation of the system. The Church will not buy into it. A Protestant minister can convert and can be ordained, if the bishop accepts his candidacy.

But this is a case of a man who has committed apostacy. He may come back to the Catholic Church, but as a Latin Rite celibate priest. This means that he would have to give up his partner.

If he has children, then that posibility is gone. He may come back to the Catholic Church, but he will be dismissed from the clerical state. He will always be a priest, because the Church cannot undo an ordination. But he can never licitly function as a priest, except to absolve someone in a life threatening situation. However, he will be able to receive the sacraments, including marriage. This is an act that the Church performs for the sake of charity.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
For the past two years], Cutié had been in the discernment process with the Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Southeast Florida had planned to accept him by the end of the year, but the photos changed all of that, Frade said in a telephone interview.

He had also been in a ‘serious relationship’ with his girlfriend for two years.

virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10556
 
To Bro. JR, OSF: I admit with humility I learned so many things in a short time since I joined the forum, but this time I’ll stay away from talking about the case of Fr.Cutie. Personally I believe Fr.Cutie wants us to leave him alone. He declared his final decision. I think further that talking about his case will only glorify him. We are elevating him to a celebrity status. I want to continue our conversation on “Apologetics and community”. I was wondering what you mean by community, but then I realized I was using a different terminology to priests, brothers and nuns or sisters that belong to a community. We refer to them as belonging to a “religious:) order” like the Franciscan Friars, SJ, etc. The other priests are the seculars. Apologetics, is this the study on how to defend our catholic faith? An Apologist is the person who applies the study, am I correct? I plan to become an Apologist. What are the qualifications and studies needed? I had been following the lectures and speeches and books of Dr.Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, Jeff Cavins, Patrick Madrid, etc. and attending bibles studies given by priests and theologians sponsored by our parish. I was motivated for several reasons:
  1. I met so many Catholics who lack understanding of the catholic faith and they had been away from the church or are being lost to other denominations. Some are simply “cafeteria” catholics.
    2.I’m in my 37 years here in the US, I was confronted and intimidated so many times by other denominations. I’m inadequately prepare to defend my faith. I’m much better now since I started my religious studies. I have my own religious library - books including the complete volume of the writings of the early fathers, bibles, bible and gospel commentaries, gospel application, videos and cds.
  2. When I visited my former country in 2007, I was so frustrated to see my former friends and relatives converting to other denominations. Their understanding of the catholic faith can easily be twisted. I saw them " reading" the bible, but not understanding it. I was challenged by my few remaining friends to revisit the country and help them. I plan to make a yearly visit and stay for at least 3 months to help them. I plan to bring with me various videos and CDs like the “Bible Timeline” of Jeff Cavins, “Salvation History” by Dr.Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins, and etc. This seem to be very ambitious, but I can start with few of my friends who are dedicated to the catholic faith then they can continue the work. If I can save one soul after saving mine, I’ll be happy with my work.
 
To Bro. JR, OSF: I admit with humility I learned so many things in a short time since I joined the forum, but this time I’ll stay away from talking about the case of Fr.Cutie. Personally I believe Fr.Cutie wants us to leave him alone. He declared his final decision. I think further that talking about his case will only glorify him. We are elevating him to a celebrity status. I want to continue our conversation on “Apologetics and community”. I was wondering what you mean by community, but then I realized I was using a different terminology to priests, brothers and nuns or sisters that belong to a community. We refer to them as belonging to a “religious:) order” like the Franciscan Friars, SJ, etc. The other priests are the seculars. Apologetics, is this the study on how to defend our catholic faith? An Apologist is the person who applies the study, am I correct? I plan to become an Apologist. What are the qualifications and studies needed? I had been following the lectures and speeches and books of Dr.Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, Jeff Cavins, Patrick Madrid, etc. and attending bibles studies given by priests and theologians sponsored by our parish. I was motivated for several reasons:
  1. I met so many Catholics who lack understanding of the catholic faith and they had been away from the church or are being lost to other denominations. Some are simply “cafeteria” catholics.
    2.I’m in my 37 years here in the US, I was confronted and intimidated so many times by other denominations. I’m inadequately prepare to defend my faith. I’m much better now since I started my religious studies. I have my own religious library - books including the complete volume of the writings of the early fathers, bibles, bible and gospel commentaries, gospel application, videos and cds.
  2. When I visited my former country in 2007, I was so frustrated to see my former friends and relatives converting to other denominations. Their understanding of the catholic faith can easily be twisted. I saw them " reading" the bible, but not understanding it. I was challenged by my few remaining friends to revisit the country and help them. I plan to make a yearly visit and stay for at least 3 months to help them. I plan to bring with me various videos and CDs like the “Bible Timeline” of Jeff Cavins, “Salvation History” by Dr.Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins, and etc. This seem to be very ambitious, but I can start with few of my friends who are dedicated to the catholic faith then they can continue the work. If I can save one soul after saving mine, I’ll be happy with my work.
Your plan is very noble indeed. In a nutshell, you’re saying that you are going to be a missionary to Catholics. We need that. It’s very consistent with what our holy father Francis wanted our own community to do. During our early years, we did send many missionaries to foreign soil, but most of our efforst then and today focussed on converting Catholics.

Another religious tradition that has a very similar mission, but with a much more scholarly approach, is the Dominican tradition. They are experts in apologetics. You may want to look at some of their work and their sites on the web.

To become an apologist one must be very well trained in the faith of the Church. This can be done in a formal and informal way. The formal way is to attend graduate school in theology and get an STD or PhD (Doctorate in Theology). The particular branch of theology that deals in apologetics is called Systematic Theology. Most of us who studied theology at that level got a smattering of it in several courses. But there are degree with majors in that area. I don’t dabble too much in it, because it’s not may major area of study. My area was Mystical Theology.

The informal way to learn apologetics is through reading. The most important and fullest document that you will ever read is the section in the CCC on the Creed. It lays out all of the beliefs of the Catholic Church. If you have a copy of the CCC with the footnotes and references it will show you exactly what documents, scriptural citations and citations from the Fathers are used to support the interpretation of the Creed. If you read the section on the Creed and the sources, you are as good to go as you will need for this missionary endeavor. If you want to teach Apologetics at a higher level, then you will need two things: a doctorate and the license from the Church to teach as a Catholic theologian.

Not every Catholic who teaches apologetics or teaches theology is a Catholic theologian. That title is one that is granted by the Church. One cannot call himself or herself a Catholic theologian without Church approval. But a Catholic can be an apologist. A good Catholic should be able to teach basic apologetics.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
For the past two years], Cutié had been in the discernment process with the Episcopal Church. The Diocese of Southeast Florida had planned to accept him by the end of the year, but the photos changed all of that, Frade said in a telephone interview.

He had also been in a ‘serious relationship’ with his girlfriend for two years.

virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10556
The fact that I find troublesome in all this is…if he was discerning this move for two years why did he stay in active ministry for all that time? He needed to take a leave from active ministry during this discernment time…because what he was truly discerning was ~ am I truly in persona Christi? This is what troubles me.
 
Bro.JR, OSF: I came from the Philippines, the only country in the Far East with the highest catholic population. But the problem is our catholic faith is inherited from our parents and parents’ parent with no full understanding of the faith. It’s just like a seed sown on a very shallow soil - no deep foundation and can easily be uprooted or die when calamities arrive. A deeper foundation is needed for this faith to survive when being challenged. It bothered me when I saw church buildings of other denominations are growing like mushrooms all over the place - Mormons, Jehovah’s witness, Iglesia ni Kristo, etc. At one point I was even questioning the rationale why the Philippines is sending so many SVD priests to other countries on a mission while the Catholics are losing ground in their own backyard. I remember the late Phil. Senator Benigno Aquino in his speech at the Ohio State University when I was still a student there. This was in reference during the WWII saying, “America was sending American soldiers to Europe to save their cousins, while their own daughters were being raped by the enemies (Japanese) in their own back door”. The Philippines then was a territory of the US. Now I understand, SVD Priests are for missionary work. I don’t intend to go back to formal schooling. I’m too old for that. I already spent over 20 years of my life in college education, though I inquired at Liberty University on their graduate program in theology. I intend to do it informally. I’ll bring video and audio materials from the US as my tools for teaching. With this method I’m sure I’ll be bringing to them the right info from reputable theologians, apologists, bible scholars and missionary priests. I’ll supplement my teaching materials with my basic knowledge of the scripture I acquired during my bible studies. And I can always ask the priest to help us out. I have a lot of teaching materials. I used to teach in informal classes when I was a Rice Specialist. I plan to coordinate with local priests and organize small study groups to discuss important issues in QA format. Probably I’ll start with the priest we sent to the seminary. I believe my experience in Mental Health Nursing will help me cope and understand the ups and downs of this mission. I plan to start my work late next year. Please pray me.
 
The fact that I find troublesome in all this is…if he was discerning this move for two years why did he stay in active ministry for all that time? He needed to take a leave from active ministry during this discernment time…because what he was truly discerning was ~ am I truly in persona Christi? This is what troubles me.
He wasn’t “discerning”*** anything***, he was “actively”*** indulging*** in mortal** sin**. When a person is in a state of mortal sin, there is darkness and confusion within and without. Cutie was deceiving and being deceived. He took a “moral” leave of absence-and he won’t be back any time soon.
His sin was exposed due to a severe mercy from God. The scandal is still being perpetuated by his lack of remorse. He “tempts God with impunity…” and calls evil, good and good, evil. " for those who refuse to pass through My door of Mercy, they must pass through My door of Justice…" (Our Lord to St.Faustina, Divine Mercy in my Soul)
 
He wasn’t “discerning”*** anything***, he was “actively”*** indulging*** in mortal** sin**. When a person is in a state of mortal sin, there is darkness and confusion within and without. Cutie was deceiving and being deceived. He took a “moral” leave of absence-and he won’t be back any time soon.
His sin was exposed due to a severe mercy from God. The scandal is still being perpetuated by his lack of remorse. He “tempts God with impunity…” and calls evil, good and good, evil. " for those who refuse to pass through My door of Mercy, they must pass through My door of Justice…" (Our Lord to St.Faustina, Divine Mercy in my Soul)
Do we know for a FACT that he was engaging in mortal sin? I do not. Did he cross the line? The tabloids may dipict that…so I may jump to a conclusion based on a secular tabloid. Therefore, for lack of my own concrete evidence I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He was in love with a woman for two years which he admits…and that led him to doubt his priestly vocation. He admits to discerning his priestly vocation during this time ~ which I say he needed to that away from his priestly duties…not while actively practicing them.

If one, was married and fell in love with another - and never “acted” on it - is that a mortal sin? NO.

I caution all of us from being judgemental…that is God’s role. We can only be critical and that is based on facts.

Let us all focus on the facts in this issue. Am I supporting what I did…no…what is my response? Also it is almost the Year of the Priest…I have been called to pray for our priests. I will do that in this case as well…untill I hear otherwise ~ he is still a priest…in need of our prayers.
 
Do we know for a FACT that he was engaging in mortal sin? I do not. Did he cross the line? The tabloids may dipict that…so I may jump to a conclusion based on a secular tabloid. Therefore, for lack of my own concrete evidence I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He was in love with a woman for two years which he admits…and that led him to doubt his priestly vocation. He admits to discerning his priestly vocation during this time ~ which I say he needed to that away from his priestly duties…not while actively practicing them.

If one, was married and fell in love with another - and never “acted” on it - is that a mortal sin? NO.

I caution all of us from being judgemental…that is God’s role. We can only be critical and that is based on facts.

Let us all focus on the facts in this issue. Am I supporting what I did…no…what is my response? Also it is almost the Year of the Priest…I have been called to pray for our priests. I will do that in this case as well…untill I hear otherwise ~ he is still a priest…in need of our prayers.
The fact that he was already in a serious relationship with the woman for two years is already a sin against his priestly vocation, especially his promise to remain celibate. Jesus said that sexual sin does not just entail doing the actual act; one can look at another person lustfully and commit sin. He was cheating on his vows when he embarked on his relationship with this woman. Cutie acted on his feelings and on his desires. In the end, he chose her and rejected the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostoli Church and committed apostacy.
 
He wasn’t “discerning”*** anything***, he was “actively”*** indulging*** in mortal** sin**. When a person is in a state of mortal sin, there is darkness and confusion within and without. Cutie was deceiving and being deceived. He took a “moral” leave of absence-and he won’t be back any time soon.
His sin was exposed due to a severe mercy from God. The scandal is still being perpetuated by his lack of remorse. He “tempts God with impunity…” and calls evil, good and good, evil. " for those who refuse to pass through My door of Mercy, they must pass through My door of Justice…" (Our Lord to St.Faustina, Divine Mercy in my Soul)
Would you say something similar to this about the Pope (Alexander VI) who was op;enly living with his mistress and had four children? And what about the bishops who made no move to have him take a leave of absence?
 
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