Oh! Just like the money that the alleged Priests gave to the alleged soldiers to spread around that the disciple had come by night and stolen the body of Jesus from the tomb? That makes anyone sleep even standing up.Wow. You must be very old to have witnessed that happen. A fun story though, but I think I’ll save it for a bedtime story.
The problem with your analogy is that the priest story is one you can point to and examine. Your idea of a corrupt centurion is just that, your idea alone. Unless you can show some historical evidence for this theory, it has no merit. Now, if you want to argue the authenticity of the corrupt priest story and possible placement due to antisemitism, we can do that, but otherwise we are comparing apples to oranges. It was a nice deflection though.
The Prophet Mohammed agrees with your theory.
**So, your authenticity for the fiasco of the bribe of the soldiers by the Priests is based on the fact that it is wirritten? Be sure my friend that 80 percent of what the NT says about Jesus has no basis at all in the truth of being Jewish. If Jesus was really a religious Jew, only 20 percent fits him into that classification. Besides, the gospels offer enough evidence that there were never any soldiers watching the tomb. Let alone the picture that the writer of Matthew paints of Jewish morons bribing soldiers to spread around that Jesus’ disciples came by night and stole Jesus’ body when there was no night that Jesus spent in the tomb. **The problem with your analogy is that the priest story is one you can point to and examine. Your idea of a corrupt centurion is just that, your idea alone. Unless you can show some historical evidence for this theory, it has no merit. Now, if you want to argue the authenticity of the corrupt priest story and possible placement due to antisemitism, we can do that, but otherwise we are comparing apples to oranges. It was a nice deflection though.
Obviously, he must have been a very smart guy.
You put too much limit on God’s power. If God willed that Jesus died on the Cross in 3 hours, then he died in 3 hours.
My understanding is Mohammed was an illiterate pagan. He called himself a prophet of God. I don’t consider him a credible source of history.
How fun. STILL not addressing the issue. The POINT of what I was saying is that you have failed to (and still fail) to provide ANY historical record or basis for your “crooked bribed centurion” theory. I didn’t say the NT was perfect by any means. I was saying that this is a part of the story, written in (at some point, perhaps even later) that is ergo part of the historical record. Your “bribed centurion” is YOURS, in YOUR head. Even an apocryphal text has credit in ways because of its age.
**It’s not us putting limit to what God can do, but you deciding what God did or should have done.You put too much limit on God’s power. If God willed that Jesus died on the Cross in 3 hours, then he died in 3 hours.
That argument of course is an argument of logic.
And by the way, was there any way for the Roman soldier to make the death of the crucified speedier such as beating him before the actual crucifixion?
Who saw that Jesus was already dead? How did they check that Jesus was already dead? The spear-piercing was not Roman policy, and I am sure they would not open an exception with Jesus. The Hellenistic Gentile who wrote the fourth gospel simply plagiarized from Zechariah 12:10 to make it look like a fulfilment of prophecy when the case had nothing to do with crucifixion.
**If the gospels contradict themselves about the existence of any guards
It’s not us putting limit to what God can do, but you deciding what God did or should have done.
Really?
But of course, it was possible that there were other circumstances that might have led the speedy death of the crucified, right?
Or are you saying that all crucified suffered 4-5 days on the cross (without evidence, of course)?
I’ll try this one more time. I’m asking YOU, do you have ANY historical evidence from ANY source that would give weight to your “bribed centurion” theory? Right now I am NOT discussing any part of the NT at all. I want to know if YOU can back up what YOU are saying. Plain and simple. Please, no deflections or other arguments, just do you have ANY evidence at all?:banghead:
No, I did not say that ALL crucified suffered 4-5 days on the cross; that’s your saying. I said that according to Josephus, it was not uncommon for some crucified remain in their crosses even up to three or four days till death reached them. Quite different from your distortion of my words.Really?
But of course, it was possible that there were other circumstances that might have led the speedy death of the crucified, right?
Or are you saying that all crucified suffered 4-5 days on the cross (without evidence, of course)?
I never distorted your words. I raised a question for you to answer.
Among others, John 19:25 "*Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. * St John, the soldiers, the two thieves that were hanged with him, Pontius Pilate, Joseph of Aramathea, Nicodemus.
*When Jesus had taken the wine, he said, “It is finished.” And bowing his head, he handed over the spirit. * How did they know the two thieves were dead?
You know this better than the eyewitnesses?
You know this how?
Considering the evidences and contradictions, I give 95 percent that Jesus survived the cross, and only 5 percent that he died.
What evidences? You have not presented any.
Exactly. It will be awhile before I return and I hope to FINALLY see evidence and not personal opinion.
I asked you for citations on this. I have not been able to find it. Even so did he say that no one died sooner? As I have written, I will be gone for awhile so maybe you can get the necessary cites by then.