Flaws Found in U.N. Climate Structure

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Oh, stop!

[Are you, by any chance, taking credit for hydro? The greenies would not approve; wild rivers and all that.]

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Yes Hydro makes up almost all of the renewable energy in these countries, you have to do a lot of digging to find it out as they post all sorts of really interesting pictures of solar panels and wind turbines but if you dig far enough you’ll find out that these account for just a miniscule amount of the energy consumed
 
Hydro in the U.S. is about 8%.

So that demolishes your total renewable 10% U.S.

And you also need to distinguish between total energy generation versus total ELECTRIC generation.

But renewable … solar and wind … when you net out the hydro are TINY.

1%.

You can’t go around taking credit for hydro and claiming it is renewable.

and then blurring the distinctions between wind, solar and hydro.

1%. Miniscule. Boutique.

And no one is approving new hydro power these days, except in China. India? Brazil? Argentina? But certainly not in the U.S.

In fact, in the U.S. they are saying that we don’t have enough river flow to fill up the dams we already have.
 
That isn’t the case for a number of these countries. Biomass accounts for 27% in Brazil for example and it’s probably the largest untapped energy source in the United States. 175MILLION TONS/385 BILLION POUNDS of food ends up in landfills every year in the United States and there are untold tons of cropwaste that is left to rot in farmers fields; all of which can be used to produce a substantial amount of energy both in their own right and in the capture of methane in the energy production process.
The problem with biomass is that it drives up the cost of food putting the poor, especially in Third World countries, in danger of starvation. To meet even a small part of the United States energy needs we would need to take out millions of acres of crop land from the production of food.

Every country you mentioned.the overwhelming majority of its renewable energy from hydroelectric sources.

And of course the larger point is none of this is necessary. We have developed technologies to use cleanly use fossil fuels. There will be no shortage of fossil fuels in the foreseeable future and there is no reason to invest huge sums of money in energy sources that simply cannot in any way cut our need for fossil fuels.
 
That isn’t the case for a number of these countries. Biomass accounts for 27% in Brazil for example and it’s probably the largest untapped energy source in the United States. 175MILLION TONS/385 BILLION POUNDS of food ends up in landfills every year in the United States and there are untold tons of cropwaste that is left to rot in farmers fields; all of which can be used to produce a substantial amount of energy both in their own right and in the capture of methane in the energy production process.
Quit using buzzwords.

Biomass!

In 2003, Brazil made a decision to become energy independent. That included massive transition to Flex Fuel Vehicles, that can burn any alcohol which could be ethanol or methanol. They’re doing it with massive subsidies.

Because the program is artificial, with subsidies, it is subject to extreme ups and downs.

In addition to ethanol, Brazil also has a HUGE off-shore oil drilling program, subsidized in part by the United States, via George Soros.

When the United States increased focus on ethanol, the cost of grains skyrocketed.

Had we decided to focus on methanol and flex-fuel vehicles, the outcome would have been different.

But the issue of flex fuel is a totally different diversion.

Brazil made a decision. If the U.S. made the same decision, we would be INCREASING oil and natural gas drilling … expanding them to the absolute maximum. But we are not. We have imposed freezes and moratoriums on drilling.
 
So that demolishes your total renewable 10% U.S.
As I’ve been pointing out; the US is WAY behind the times and your figure is wrong.
And you also need to distinguish between total energy generation versus total ELECTRIC generation.
I’ve been talking about total energy CONSUMPTION.
Wrong. See the example on Brazil and there are plenty more where that comes from.
You can’t go around taking credit for hydro and claiming it is renewable…
It IS renewable. You can’t go around claiming that water is not renewable on planet with a surface of 75% water.
 
The problem with biomass is that it drives up the cost of food putting the poor, especially in Third World countries, in danger of starvation.
Absolute nonsense. As I’ve pointed out; the United States wastes 172 MILLION TONS of food every year and allows untold tons of cropwaste to rot in fields. This can be used for energy production but instead it’s rotting away in landfills and fields; not being eaten by anyone in the third world or otherwise. In fact, the EIA concluded that, even if we don’t use the 172 million tons of food thrown in the garbage, biomass could account for 15% of total energy generation in the United States without any impact on food supply if the powers that be allow it.
 
Absolute nonsense. As I’ve pointed out; the United States wastes 172 MILLION TONS of food every year and allows untold tons of cropwaste to rot in fields. This can be used for energy production but instead it’s rotting away in landfills and fields; not being eaten by anyone in the third world or otherwise. In fact, the EIA concluded that, even if we don’t use the 172 million tons of food thrown in the garbage, biomass could account for 15% of total energy generation in the United States without any impact on food supply if the powers that be allow it.
Is Biomass Really a Clean Energy Resource?
ezinearticles.com/?Is-Biomass-Really-a-Clean-Energy-Resource?&id=152460

problems with biomass
greenyes.grrn.org/1999a/1720.html
 
Where did they get those silly numbers from?

I can imagine it now. The government estimates how much food each person wastes and demands each household contribute so many kilograms of food per day to the government composting and alcohol production program.

Do you realize that vegetation in farm fields gets disced into the soil and helps build the soil for the next crop.

Governments also have very strict rules that stores must follow so that “expired” food MUST be thrown away.

I once asked if I could have some of the “expired” cheese they were throwing away. AGED CHEESE. And they said no, it must be thrown out. Could it go to some food bank or soup kitchen or second harvest group. NOPE. Must be thrown out. In addition, if someone gets sick from using that “expired” food, the store could get sued.

There was a guy in Las Vegas who collected food waste from hotels and fed it to pigs; but I don’t know how many people are interested in running that kind of operation. And if you’re not careful, the hogs could cause unsanitary conditions. [Saw it on “Dirty Jobs” and it sure is a dirty job. It has to be manually sorted and “foreign” material removed by hand.]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

New York City used to have an operation like that … in New Jersey … in the Meadowlands. But it had a bad reputation and was shut down.

These schemes to recycle food tend to be very messy and very expensive with potential for disease vectors [vermin]. Not the nice operation that the greenies make it out to be.
 
The idea that the United States is behind the rest of the world on hydro power is the most ridiculous statement ever uttered or written.

Hydro power depends on damming up rivers [which the environmentalists oppose vehemently; they want to TEAR DOWN dams]. AND you need a vertical drop sufficient to generate the water velocity or water pressure sufficient to turn the water turbine(s).

If you don’t have the volume of water and a sufficient water power to spin the turbine, then you aren’t going to get much water power.

You can’t just decide to increase hydro power by the force of will.

The U.S. gets about 8% of its energy from hydro now. To get much of an increase would be almost impossible. The good sites are pretty much all taken already in the U.S.

The geography and topography of some countries favors hydro, such as Sweden and Norway and other mountainous countries. Iowa might have a problem with that, as Iowa is flat.

But, you can’t have it both ways: insist on more hydro and then fight hydro with every breath in your body. The environmentalists have fought dams for hydro and dams for drinking water.

There ARE some experiments going on with water turbines set on river bottoms, but so far there are few results.

The future of power generation in the U.S. is with natural gas and nuclear.
 
I’ve always found the IPCC reports to be ultra-conservative, since science requires 90-95% confidence before making claims, and these reports require agreement among many reticent scientists, making the reports more conservative than individual studies.
Its called a hypothesis and not a claim. And no confidence level is required for a hypothesis. Please tell me where you get this stuff.
 
Absolute nonsense. As I’ve pointed out; the United States wastes 172 MILLION TONS of food every year and allows untold tons of cropwaste to rot in fields. This can be used for energy production but instead it’s rotting away in landfills and fields; not being eaten by anyone in the third world or otherwise. In fact, the EIA concluded that, even if we don’t use the 172 million tons of food thrown in the garbage, biomass could account for 15% of total energy generation in the United States without any impact on food supply if the powers that be allow it.
That is incorrect. According to EIA records 172 million tons of biomass isn’t even 15% of the weight of coal used in power generation. Not even including pwer generated from natural gas, petroleum liquids, nuclear ect.
And what are you going to do with all that nasty CO2 from biomass? You think biomass won’t make CO2?
 
At any rate the Catholic Church thru the popes and bishops has admonished us time and again over the past 20 years to mitigate AGW, that it is the moral and prudent thing to do, even if some do not accept all the science on it. Even AFTER the CRU hack (“climategate”) and mistakes found in the IPCC (“glaciergate”), BXVI wrote recently:

“Man’s inhumanity to man has given rise to numerous threats to peace…Yet no less troubling are the threats arising from the neglect – if not downright misuse – of the earth and the natural goods that God has given us…Can we remain indifferent before the problems associated with such realities as climate change… attention also needs to be paid to the world-wide problem of water and to the global water cycle system [including the glacial cycle], which is of prime importance for life on earth and whose stability could be seriously jeopardized by climate change” – Pope Benedict XVI, “If You Want to Cultivate Peace, Protect Creation,” 2010, vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/peace/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20091208_xliii-world-day-peace_en.html
The Pope and certainly the Bishops have proven time and again through history, that while they may be right about certain infallible rulings, they are astonishingly ignorant and completely disregard scientific inquiry. That they chose to propose the false religion of AGW as a moral issue is very unfortunate and only furthers a long heritage of sticking their nose in places is has no expertise.
 
The idea that the United States is behind the rest of the world on hydro power is the most ridiculous statement ever uttered or written…You can’t just decide to increase hydro power by the force of will…The good sites are pretty much all taken already in the U.S.
No, you’re just WAY behind the times when it comes to hydropower. The United States has thousands of miles of coastline and hasn’t taken advantage of ocean wave power which has potential energy production of 40-70KW PER METER of ocean. This technology has already been implimented in Europe.
 
Its called a hypothesis and not a claim. And no confidence level is required for a hypothesis. Please tell me where you get this stuff.
You forgot the rest of the experiment – where they make observations that either support or fail to support the hypothesis. The IPCC reports are based on scientific studies, which are based on proven hypotheses…which then can be called theories.

The science chapters of the IPCC WGI stand solid on the foundation of peer-reviewed climate studies – no mistakes were found in those chapters.

But still, science requires high levels of confidence before making claims, while those striving to avoid harms would not require such high levels. If the doc came back and told a person that the tests have only 89% confidence that the lump is cancerous, and to come back in a few years to see if it could get up to 95% confidence so they could operate, the person would probably be freaked out.

Scientists strive to avoid the FALSE POSITIVE of making untrue claims, to maintain their reputations; they cannot afford to be the boy who called wolf.

Laypersons concerned about life on earth would be striving to avoid the FALSE NEGATIVE of failing to mitigate a true and dangerous problem or threat (you’d think).

I’ve been reading the IPCC reports for 15 years – they are conservative in their claims. The problem of AGW is much worse they they are painting it. Unfortunately it is the younger folks and future generations that will be realizing that the most.
 
From a parallel thread:

Originally Posted by Linda Marie
Here’s the rub. One has to determine if they are telling the truth or if they are just out to feather their nests.

Are they really scientists? What the whole lot of them have done is ignore data which conflicts with their hypotheses, ignore faulty equipment which registered temperatures far in excess of normal (700F on the surface of Lake Michigan for instance), and they knowingly left them in, and reduce the number of reporting stations selecting only those in high temperature regions and deleting those from the cold regions of the earth, and on and on and on. Moreover, they conspired among themselves to prevent the publication of opposing views and to destroy the reputations of scientists whose findings differed from theirs.

They set out to prove a hypothesis and didn’t let anything get in the way of proving it, like the truth. This is not science and those who have been perpetrating this fraud on us are not scientists. They have prostituted themselves for the grant money.

The truth is that they have not proven that the entire earth is warming much less that man is the cause. Such hubris.

They have not proven that CO2 is the ‘culprit’. They have not proven the so-called ‘Greenhouse Effect’. It is all theory without evidence to back it up.
Climate CO2 Sensitivity Overestimated Written by Doug L. Hoffman, Resilient Earth | 04 September 2010

Pachauri admits the IPCC just guesses the numbers

£40,000 for a Climategate whitewash? Nice work, if you can get it, Sir Muir Russell!
investigation into the Climategate affair.

Our JGR Paper on Feedbacks is Published Written by Dr. Roy W. Spencer | 27 August 2010

bolding mine

We are called by God to be good stewards of the earth, not line the pockets of the likes of Al Gore and company. Carbon credits are ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’ and those wishing to appear wise have bought into it. We sceptics are the small child standing up to say, “But he isn’t wearing anything!”
 
From that other contemporaneous thread:

Good summary of the whole thing.

What part of this do the AGW-ers not understand.

[Does anyone here read the Climategate emails??? ]

amazon.com/Climategate-Crutape-Letters-Steven-Mosher/dp/1450512437/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284139083&sr=8-3

[if you don’t want to buy the book or visit the library, then read the reviews.]

www.surfacestations.org demonstrates temp data that was (name removed by moderator)utted into the models was corrupted … reads high by 5º.

www.sepp.org reveals all the latest scandals

www.oism.org petition project … 30,000+ signatures … AGW is bogus.

#108

Re: ‘Climategate’ Debunking Gets Less Coverage Than Original Trumped-Up Scandal
In addition to the regular SEPP Web site … www.sepp.org … PLEASE NOTE that the complete TWTW, including the articles, can be downloaded in an easily printable form at the web site:

haapala.com/sepp/the-week-that-was.cfm…
 
From a parallel thread:

Originally Posted by Linda Marie
Here’s the rub. One has to determine if they [the scientists] are telling the truth or if they are just out to feather their nests.
They’re telling the truth.

And even if they were not (outside chance with less than .05 prob), it still pays in $$, in human lives, and in protecting God’s good creation to mitigate AGW. So let’s get to it.
 
They’re telling the truth.

And even if they were not (outside chance with less than .05 prob), it still pays in $$, in human lives, and in protecting God’s good creation to mitigate AGW. So let’s get to it.
And you don’t see the inherent contradiction in your two first sentences???

“they’re telling the truth”

“but if they’re not …”

[and do you by any chance have the mathematical calculations of the 0.05 probability that what they’re telling is NOT the truth? How can that be if they are telling the truth? You are just making stuff up and it shows.]

[To make matters worse, the economy is flat on its back, and you want to “necessarily cause electricity rates to skyrocket” … direct quote from President Obama … that would be the result of the cap & trade taxes … what is the benefit to “fixing” something like AGW that doesn’t exist in the first place.]

Sorry, but your agenda is becoming transparent to all the readers here. The taxes on “carbon” … translation: electricity … would destroy the economy of the United States of America … and THAT is your true agenda.]

“So, let’s get to it” is a blend of pseudo-science and emotion. Let’s get in there and utterly wipe out the U.S. economy.
 
From a parallel thread:

Are you serious???

The IPCC-supported conclusion is that temperature will increase by 0.01º per year.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW LITTLE 0.01º is???

One one-hundredth of a degree per year.

[One degree per century]

[Do you realize that the temperature data going INTO the computer models is based on uncalibrated instruments!! The reviews of instrument locations at www.surfacestations.org shows that the actual data is off. The instruments read HIGH by as much as 5º.

In other words, if you adjust the computer model output for the grossly off (name removed by moderator)ut data, then the ACTUAL model results would show a 100 year temperature change of -3º … not even the +1º.

So, stop with the impassioned pleas over imminent temperature disaster.

Not going to happen.

For the past ten years, temperatures HAVE been dropping, even though carbon dioxide has been increasing, which is totally contrary to all the models and propaganda.

In fact, if the temperature does really DROP, then the lower temperatures will lead to crop failures.

Warmer temps and higher carbon dioxide levels lead to HIGER crop yields. And that is a good thing.

But all indications are that the temps are going to go down.

So what we are doing is wasting our time and energy trying to tax the daylights out of people to no end except to destroy the economy.
 
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