Florida 'stand your ground' shooter Michael Drejka charged with manslaughter

[Inisfallen]

Sure, he overreacted. No doubt about it. But not to the extent the agressive jerk doing vigilante parking enforcement did, the guy with a history of waving guns around for no good reason other than to intimate people.

 

[ucfengr]

Sure, he overreacted. No doubt about it. But not to the extent the agressive jerk doing vigilante parking enforcement did

The so called “aggressive jerk” was using his words, not his fists.

the guy with a history of waving guns around for no good reason other than to intimate people.

Brandishing a firearm (using a firearm to threaten someone) is a crime. Has he ever been charged or convicted of it? If not, then it’s not relevant to the charges.

 

[sallybutler]

See, this is where I don’t understand the stand your ground. What are the rules? Someone appearing to threaten your wife and children is not a valid reason to stand your ground, but being pushed is?

Does one have to have a gun to invoke stand your ground? Why can’t pushing be an invocation of stand your ground?

Perhaps if the man who did the pushing pulled out his gun and shot the man harassing his wife and children since his mobile castle as being assaulted, it would have been better.

 

[ucfengr]

Someone appearing to threaten

How did Drejka appear to be threatening anyone? The people he is supposed to be threatening aren’t even in the video frame. All he’s doing is verbally chastising them for illegally parking in a handicapped space from 10+ feet away.

 

[sallybutler]

Give me a break. If someone came up to me while I’m parked somewhere and started harraunaging me , I would get very nervous. No, make that scared for my life Perhaps that is because I am female, not male. I have seen very odd people hanging around parking lots and they usually make me extremely nervous.

Maybe you know no women who would be glad to have their husband come to their aid. But many of us would not only be glad, but would kind of expect it.

 

[ucfengr]

Maybe you know no women who would be glad to have their husband come to their aid. But many of us would not only be glad, but would kind of expect it.

You think your husband should violently attack people who make you “very nervous”?

Maybe I’m strange, but my first thought would have been to acknowledge that the guy was right, we shouldn’t have parked in the handicapped spot (not being handicapped and all), apologized, and moved on. My first thought would not have been to sucker punch the guy…maybe I’m a bad Catholic.

 

[Peebo]

sallybutler

4m

Give me a break. If someone came up to me while I’m parked somewhere and started harraunaging me , I would get very nervous. No, make that scared for my life Perhaps that is because I am female, not male. I have seen very odd people hanging around parking lots and they usually make me extremely nervous.

Maybe you know no women who would be glad to have their husband come to their aid. But many of us would not only be glad, but would kind of expect it.

Any man who is worth his salt would do that…just as any man who feels they have to pull a gun and kill someone because they got pushed to ground is nothing but a coward…“violent attack”…give me a break

 

[sallybutler]

Yes, I would. BTW, you forgot to include scared for my life. Isn’t that what stand your ground is about, protecting yourself or your family when you are afraid for yourself or them?

I think the man did what most people do, push at the person. Not all of us behave as politely as you would when we and ours are being threatened.

 

[Theo520]

If I have just been violently shoved to the ground by someone twice my size I am in imminent danger in my opinion. We don’t know if he might have been yelling threats
after he pushed the man down.
All the facts are not out.

Yes, what was also said does matter, and will come out in a manslaughter trial.

 

[exnihilo]

Yes, I would. BTW, you forgot to include scared for my life. Isn’t that what stand your ground is about, protecting yourself or your family when you are afraid for yourself or them?

I think the man did what most people do, push at the person. Not all of us behave as politely as you would when we and ours are being threatened.

No, that isn’t stand your ground at all. You can’t just be afraid and start shooting people.

Maybe most people would push someone in that situation. In which case most people would commit battery. And if most people are like that no wonder people carry guns.

 

[ucfengr]

Yes, I would. BTW, you forgot to include scared for my life. Isn’t that what stand your ground is about, protecting yourself or your family when you are afraid for yourself or them?

“Stand your Ground” is about not having to flee from a physical attacker, but being able to “stand your ground” and physically defend yourself. Verbal attacks aren’t physical attacks and don’t authorize a physically violent response.

I think the man did what most people do, push at the person. Not all of us behave as politely as you would when we and ours are being threatened.

That’s true, my first instinct isn’t to violence when yelled at for doing something wrong (an able bodied man or woman parking in a handicapped spot is wrong). My first instinct is to correct myself. Maybe that makes me a bad Catholic.

 

[Theo520]

Give me a break. If someone came up to me while I’m parked somewhere and started harraunaging me , I would get very nervous. No, make that scared for my life Perhaps that is because I am female, not male. I have seen very odd people hanging around parking lots and they usually make me extremely nervous.

Maybe you know no women who would be glad to have their husband come to their aid. But many of us would not only be glad, but would kind of expect it.

Any man who is worth his salt would do that…just as any man who feels they have to pull a gun and kill someone because they got pushed to ground is nothing but a coward…“violent attack”…give me a break

I’d expect the husband to get between wife and other man, not assault him. The husband initiated the violence.

Another response might have been to move out of the handicapped parking being used illegally.

 

[ucfengr]

Another response might have been to move out of the handicapped parking being used illegally.

Acknowledge a mistake? What kind of person does that? Better just to slug him…it’s the Catholic response.

 

[exnihilo]

“Stand your Ground” is about not having to flee from a physical attacker, but being able to “stand your ground” and physically defend yourself. Verbal attacks aren’t physical attacks and don’t authorize a physically violent response.

Right it is really removing the ‘duty to retreat’. The law had gotten ridiculous in keeping victims from defending themselves.

A verbal threat would change things. But otherwise you are certainly correct. An argument isn’t justification for assaulting someone. That should be pretty obvious, but apparently it isn’t.

 

[exnihilo]

Speaking of bad Catholics. Just the other day I overheard a Catholic say he would let the air out of people’s tires who parked illegally in a handicap spot. I understood him to be saying that is what he would do and not necessarily what he had done. I thought it interesting in light of this issue.

So, Is he a bad Catholic? He thinks he would be doing something good. It would certainly be vigilante justice. But what really separates what he would do from what this guy said.

 

[ucfengr]

He thinks he would be doing something good. It would certainly be vigilante justice. But what really separates what he would do from what this guy said.

Taking action to damage another’s property (such as deflating tires, which can ruin them if the person doesn’t catch it right away) is different from verbally correcting them.

 

[Peebo]

ucfengr

6m

sallybutler:

Yes, I would. BTW, you forgot to include scared for my life. Isn’t that what stand your ground is about, protecting yourself or your family when you are afraid for yourself or them?

“Stand your Ground” is about not having to flee from a physical attacker, but being able to “stand your ground” and physically defend yourself. Verbal attacks aren’t physical attacks and don’t authorize a physically violent response.

sallybutler:

I think the man did what most people do, push at the person. Not all of us behave as politely as you would when we and ours are being threatened.

That’s true, my first instinct isn’t to violence when yelled at for doing something wrong (an able bodied man or woman parking in a handicapped spot is wrong). My first instinct is to correct myself. Maybe that makes me a bad Catholic.

Well…I guess you wouldn’t have a problem shooting someone if you got pushed to the ground because that to you constitutes a “violent attack”…by the way…Florida stand your ground law says you can be in “imminent” fear for your life or of great bodily harm…it doesn’t say after you have been physically attacked…it’s probably the most lax stand your ground law in the country.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

JimR-OCDS:

The gunman first went to the woman’s car and yelled at her for parking in a handicap spot.

The man did not have the authority to do this and was acting in an aggressive manner until the husband came out of the store.

I don’t know about authority, but I’m pretty sure the 1st amendment gives him the right.

The first amendment does not give him the right to go up to a stranger and start yelling at that person in a threatening manner. I know you didn’t see that because the video had not yet begun. But you also don’t know for sure that he didn’t act that way, which McGlockton clearly though was the case.

And from the video, I don’t see that Drejka was acting in a threatening manner.

See above.

The husband then shoved the man to the ground to get him to back off and mind his own business,

Which he had neither the authority nor right to do.

That by itself does not justify death.

McGlockton saw the gun and realized the situation had changed. If the man did not
have a gun, what would have happened?

Quite likely what would have happened is that McGlockton, now feeling that his girlfriend had been avenged, and Drejka has been told off, would have proudly got in the car with his girlfriend and driven off.

 

[Inisfallen]

Brandishing a firearm (using a firearm to threaten someone) is a crime. Has he ever been charged or convicted of it? If not, then it’s not relevant to the charges.

This isn’t a courtroom, this is CAF. I’m absolutely entitled to make judgments about Mr. Drejka’s character based on reported stories about his behavior, and especially his behavior with a gun. There are no rules of evidence here, it’s not inadmissible. It is very much relevant. We all – including you – form our opinions of people based on what is reported about them.

Seems to me that some here think “stand your ground” means you can be an absolute jerk to people in public, start fights, and when it looks like you’re going to lose the fight, pull a gun and kill the person with whom you started the fight.

That’s wrong. Mr. Drejka, based on the video I saw, appears to have shot and killed a man who, whatever he may have done in reaction to Mr. Drejka’s verbal abuse, was backing away – retreating – from the situation.

I’m glad he was charged. Barring the disclosure of something that we don’t know yet, I hope he spends a significant amount of time in prison.

And, obviously, he should never be allowed to possess a firearm again.

 

[Inisfallen]

So, Is he a bad Catholic? He thinks he would be doing something good. It would certainly be vigilante justice. But what really separates what he would do from what this guy said.

Is he a bad Catholic? I don’t know. Is he a jerk? Yes, beyond a shadow of a doubt.