Florida Woman Says Former Church Plans To Make Her Sins Public

[survive]

It’s a very sorry saga

Catholic Confession to a priest, who is acting in the person of Christ, looks so beautiful from there.

:sad_yes: I praise the Lord I’m not a Nondenominational/Pentecostal/Holiness Christian anymore – you never know what you’re getting into when it’s up to the pastor and no one knows where he got his ideas from either. How skeptical I was that there could be a more respectful, more founded, grounded Church than I was in. But there is, and now I’m in it.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

We must pray for all these people.

 

[MarkBrown]

Did you happen to read the letter that was sent to the woman? There is a link to the letter in the Fox News article.

Yes

I find the tone of their letter to be pompus and condecending at best, and it does list the woman’s indiscretion, and how they plan to remedy it.

I disagree with you interpretation of the letter. But I do not automatically assume the church is guilty of any malicious intent. What we have is from one point of view, the one who admits she is an unrepentant sinner. She says she sent a letter to resign from the church. Interesting only the church letter is published, or I failed to see a link to her letter. We have her side and her boyfriends but not the churches. Her mentor was a woman who was not a pastor and therefore not under any pastoral restrictions and again we only have the womans version of what happened, she tells us the contents of meetings. Notice something. Everything is from her, the church we are taking such satisfaction in condemning is silent. We do not have a timeline, we do not have documents, we do not have the church commenting. Just the words of a woman who refuses to repent and is seeking the News media to try and embarrass this church. Too many on this board are letting their bias influence their objectivity in this case.

I also find it interesting that the letter is not even signed by an individual or individuals, but merely The Elders of Grace…

Interesting but not condemning. I would perfer a name of the pastor or a “by direction”. This is not the way I would do it

If in fact, the woman did submit a letter of resignation to the church, then they should drop the issue, because she is no longer a member of their flock.

Why did she not present it at the same time she presented the church letter? Would help her case, as is the letter does not exist unless produced. And now it would be suspect unless there is documentation that the letter was sent prior. If this church is so harmful, what about phone records to attempt to prove contact from the church. In the church letter, the church comments the woman is not communicating with the elders or the church. I work insurance fraud for 13 years, all my red flags are up about this woman and her version of the story.

Again we should pray for all concerned and withhold judgment until all the facts are known.

 

[MarkBrown]

I found it a bit weird they/she - allowed her address to be published on the internet.

AND they got the date of the year wrong in the letter.

Now, if they can be wrong with a simple thing like a date, what else could they be wrong about

At this time of year and into the next month, how many of us will put the wrong year on a check etc. How many of us next year will write for example Jan 15, 2008 and mean Jan 15, 2009. It is just a sign of poor proof reading, but again the eye and mind are use to 2008 in dates. So using this logic, if any of us make this simple and often made mistake, what else could we be wrong on?

 

[MarkBrown]

:sad_yes: I praise the Lord I’m not a Nondenominational/Pentecostal/Holiness Christian anymore – you never know what you’re getting into when it’s up to the pastor and no one knows where he got his ideas from either. How skeptical I was that there could be a more respectful, more founded, grounded Church than I was in. But there is, and now I’m in it.

Oh the stones. Any church can have situations like this. I know of Roman Catholics who have been hurt by their priest, nuns, Bishops. Matter of fact a young man who is a co-worker is bitter at the Roman Catholic church over how he and his family were treated by the parish priest and the Bishop. With the help of the Holy Spirit I am trying to help him past it so he will return to a different parish and understand that all organizations have people who do stupid things and commit errors.

 

[MarkBrown]

It’s a very sorry saga

Catholic Confession to a priest, who is acting in the person of Christ, looks so beautiful from there.

Actually, it’s just beautiful, full stop.

I agree.

I am just so grateful to God for being led to the Catholic Church.

I would probably be arrested by these guys and thrown in a cellar for life if I ever had to confess to someone like them

I wonder how many eyes they’ve gouged out recently

About as many as you have. This part is just cruel and silly. You criticize their attitude and then adopt it as your attitude towards them. Guess you would be sharing the same cellar with them

 

[seekdatruth]

Mark,
Just trying to get an idea where you’re coming from. Are you by any chance a member of that church?
I didn’t get a bad attitude vibe off ag at all.
This all goes back to “God is my judge”.

 

[Carjack1]

IF** what this lady is stating is the truth, then I can see why Christians get a bad name. They pretty much told her that because she keeps falling, that they were going to make her sins public. Because she doesn’t want to meet with them and hear what they have to say, they are going to publicly humilate them. That is coersion(sorry if I mispelled). They are trying to force their advice on her. They have already told her that it was wrong, to announce it to the Chruch is horrible and if she doesn’t want to come back, I don’t blame her.**

 

[BrotherJohn]

Florida Woman Says Former Church Plans to Make Her Sins Public

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469928,00.html

Another reason I’m Catholic I don’t have to worry about my priest going public.

There are a number of points of her account that cause me to question her …shall we say accuracy. But one point I would make, the person she spoke to was technically not clergy and not necessarily bound by any type of confidentiality. Usually when such relationships are formed in these types of churches there is an agreement signed which spells out whether confidentiality will be kept.

With that said I do not see how public humiliation of a person who has made it clear they do not wish to continue as a member is called for in this case. Even if she hasn’t formally resigned it is clear that she does not wish to continue as a member. I would also add that it seems to me (simply my opinion I admit) that concern for her children would contraindicate such an action.

 

[Auriel]

Well, I know that the Grace Community Churches have had their share of scandals. They are also listed in the Cult Awareness Network. I will admit though, that does not mean that much to me. All denominations have had their share of scandal. And CAN lumps them all together. There are good people and Pastors, Priests, Rabbis, etc… in every place.

However I realized that name seemed familiar. There is a Grace Community Church very close to me. I was thinking of checking a church out. I am glad I didn’t though.

They say non-denominational but they share Baptist Beliefs and most were Baptist. I noticed they have the AWANA club too! They believe in cessation of gifts, full immersion baptism, etc…pretty Baptist. That brand of Baptist tend to be very controlling. What I do not like about them is that no one is allowed to question.

I noticed they finally put their website back up! And what happened now does not surprise me. heheheh

Quote from Pastors Bio:

LINK: gracejax.org/pastoralstaff.html

Dr. T. Scott Christmas serves as the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church. By the grace of God, Scott was saved in 1988 following a severe car accident. He has been involved in pastoral ministry since 1990. A native of Jacksonville, Florida, Scott has earned degrees from the Criswell College (B.A.), The Master’s Seminary (M.Div.), and The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (D.Min.). In 1996, Scott planted Grace Community Church. He and his wife, Heather, have four sons.

END QUOTE

I briefly attended one much like with the same belief about authority and elders and was kicked out as a kid for questioning. Different accusation there, but pastor was eventually busted though it was covered up by his powerful and wealthy father. It was horrible.

What bothers me is the Hypocrisy. And these people seem to have favorite sins to pick on. If your going to call someone out publicly would it not be fair to call everyone out on their sins?

By focusing on her though, I am sure it diverted attention away from their weaknesses.

BTW, she was in their mentoring program with lasts for 6 months. It is considered a spiritual friendship, and with friends like that…

gracejax.org/women.html

 

[abirdrrl]

Oh the stones. Any church can have situations like this. I know of Roman Catholics who have been hurt by their priest, nuns, Bishops. Matter of fact a young man who is a co-worker is bitter at the Roman Catholic church over how he and his family were treated by the parish priest and the Bishop. With the help of the Holy Spirit I am trying to help him past it so he will return to a different parish and understand that all organizations have people who do stupid things and commit errors.

I agree. It’s not just non-Catholic Christians who aren’t always pastoral. I remember a few years ago there were members of a Catholic Church who got kicked out for kneeling after the Agnus Dei.

 

[Ag_not]

I agree. It’s not just non-Catholic Christians who aren’t always pastoral. I remember a few years ago there were members of a Catholic Church who got kicked out for kneeling after the Agnus Dei.

Really. Excommunicated for kneeling. Can you publish the source please?

 

[Auriel]

I heard about that a while back, but did not understand all the terminology as a non catholic. It was called a mortal sin,.

Here is the archived article from LA TIMES. articles.latimes.com/2006/may/28/local/me-kneel28

Another from a catholic source: losangelesmission.com/ed/articles/2006/0609rk.htm

 

[seekdatruth]

Weird. I don’t remember exactly when we kneel in our mass–kind of like all the words of a song don’t come to you sometimes until you sing it…but I think we kneel right after that, or are already kneeling. There are slight variations from congregation to congregation (established options that the priest can decide on) We like to kneel a lot more here than I’ve seen elsewhere. We also have many people from Mexico that, for whatever reason, are used to dropping to both their knees and genuflecting when the exiting procession goes by them. No one gives them trouble that I’ve seen, and I’ve noticed some of the same people doing it in more than one mass, but I try not to worry too much about what others are doing…
The beauty is that I probably* wouldn’t* know if they get admonished for something, because the Catholic Church believes that our sins, or mistakes in the liturgy for that matter, are between us, our confessor, and God. No matter how grave or minor the sin, a priest can never repeat it outside the confessional.

 

[RobHom]

Whats kind of interesting about this… is that the people in that church are possibly making some grievous errors. If someone actually went to where she lived and spied on her, and did so with particular intent, they could end up being charged under Florida’s Felony Stalking Law ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_Florida108 and could find themselves facing a great deal of litigation based on defamation laws. abbottlaw.com/defamation.html Whether or not someone agrees with what someone does in their private life, it is not for others to publish statements that cannot be proven. Its all in the details.

I’d willing to bet when its all over…the people in that church are going to regret doing what they have done.

 

[Auriel]

Whats kind of interesting about this… is that the people in that church are possibly making some grievous errors. If someone actually went to where she lived and spied on her, and did so with particular intent, they could end up being charged under Florida’s Felony Stalking Law ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_Florida108 and could find themselves facing a great deal of litigation based on defamation laws. abbottlaw.com/defamation.html Whether or not someone agrees with what someone does in their private life, it is not for others to publish statements that cannot be proven. Its all in the details.

I’d willing to bet when its all over…the people in that church are going to regret doing what they have done.

Thanks for the links! I was curious about that myself but knew laws varied from state to state. Out of the whole article, the stalking is what bothered me the most. It caused me to view them as dangerous, and this is more than a religious issue.

 

[Lucania]

I’m not sure why she’s worried about what her church does; if she’s talking to national news media I’d say she’s doing a perfectly fine job of making her own sins public.

Thank you SeekerJen! This happened here where I live. It was on the front page of the newspaper, all over the local news channels, then I’m watching O’Reilly & I hear John Casic (who’s filling in for O’Reilly) say the promo for that story coming up after the break! Now the world knows about her personal life !

 

[Ruthie]

So, does anyone know why she doesn’t marry the guy?

That might have more to do with that church’s actions than anything else.

After all, if she were fornicating and/or committing adultery as a Catholic, and had no intention of stopping, she would be forbidden from taking the Eucharist.

Puzzled,

Ruthie

 

[narrowpath]

Because they don’t have any real hierarchy in their church (except for the elders) they have to interpret “telling it to the church” as making it public to the congregation.

 

[MarkBrown]

Mark,
Just trying to get an idea where you’re coming from. Are you by any chance a member of that church?
I didn’t get a bad attitude vibe off ag at all.
This all goes back to “God is my judge”.

No I am not a member. My profile says Anglican, I think I changed it. If I didn’t :doh2: I would probably never attend this church.

I am coming from “there is way too much judgin going on here”. And we only know part of the story. The church maybe totally in the wrong. But we do not know that. Too many are jumping on the “lets condemn those bad non-denom” bandwagon. This is the sense I get from the many negative posts.

Could I misread, sure. The internet is a horrible way to communicate. As words are only part of the communication process.