Florida's GOP gubernatorial nominee says a vote for his black opponent would 'monkey this up'

[dvdjs]

Yeah, no, the data do no such thing.

They do. Tracking of the events shows them to be rare, and to have occurred at a small number of universities and colleges.

Your suggestion fails.

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

 

[JonNC]

No. That poster can speak for himself, if he wants to. It’s not my place to drag someone else into the debate.

Actually, you already brought him into the conversation.

Understood. I disagree, strongly, but I hear what you’re saying, and at this point I don’t think there’s any point in re-hashing the debate.

Okay. I’m not sure what you disagree with. I thought I was kind of on your side about that. Maybe it has to do with the definition of socialism

 

[JonNC]

Veered left ? Bill Clinton and Barack Obama governed (and Hillary Clinton would have governed) from a position on the political spectrum that was pretty much the same as that occupied by Richard Nixon. And yet they’re called “socialists” and “hard left” (Obama and Hillary Clinton especially).

To a degree, I agree. Nixon governed from the left of Center on a number of things

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Inisfallen:

Veered left ? Bill Clinton and Barack Obama governed (and Hillary Clinton would have governed) from a position on the political spectrum that was pretty much the same as that occupied by Richard Nixon. And yet they’re called “socialists” and “hard left” (Obama and Hillary Clinton especially).

To a degree, I agree. Nixon governed from the left of Center on a number of things

Well, to the left of right, certainly. Left of center? Well, the definition of center is a little squishy to be sure.

 

[JonNC]

Well, to the left of right, certainly. Left of center? Well, the definition of center is a little squishy to be sure.

There is nothing right of Center about wage/ price freezes. That’s clearly left of center

 

[Inisfallen]

There is nothing right of Center about wage/ price freezes. That’s clearly left of center

Depends on where the center is. It’s a moving target, after all.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

There is nothing right of Center about wage/ price freezes. That’s clearly left of center

Depends on where the center is. It’s a moving target, after all.

Not so much.

 

[HarryStotle]

They do. Tracking of the events shows them to be rare, and to have occurred at a small number of universities and colleges.

Your suggestion fails.

That is laughable given that shutting down opposing voices has become the SOP of the Democratic Party and its affiliated organizations.

Compare the above disruptive MO with the calm, measured analysis of Sen Ben Sasse, who makes it very clear why Supreme Court nomination hearings have become so politicized.

Small number? Yeah, no, but keep talking.

We can keep pulling back the curtain on this until people see why this is happening.

The Dems have opted to turn up the heat rather than shed light because they underestimate the intelligence of the majority of the electorate.

 

[dvdjs]

That is laughable

You may find the truth funny, for whatever reason, but it is still the truth.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

That is laughable

You may find the truth funny, for whatever reason, but it is still the truth.

Sure it is.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

That is laughable

You may find the truth funny, for whatever reason, but it is still the truth.

Jonathan Haidt doesn’t think it’s the truth.

In fact, he makes the statement that only Princeton of the Ivy League schools has made a true commitment to free speech on campus.

You might feel that is not problematic, but all of his research leads him to think it is a serious problem, especially for experts in any field because their greater control over the “facts” tends to bias them towards pre-cog viewpoints.

He has started a website heterodoxacademy.org to promote viewpoint diversity in the academy.

The research and findings in terms of the fear professors have of student retribution, the increasing extinction of conservative viewpoints on campus and the changing attitudes towards free speech ought to concern everyone, including you.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/the-skeptics-are-wrong-part-3-intolerance-levels-are-high/

https://heterodoxacademy.org/student-hostility-free-expression-behaviors-surveys/

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Yeah, no, the data do no such thing.

They do. Tracking of the events shows them to be rare, and to have occurred at a small number of universities and colleges.

The Heterodox Academy website has a guide to colleges that scores the top 150 universities and top 50 liberals arts colleges according to how committed each is to intellectual diversity. Only ~35 of 117 universities and only 6 of 38 liberal arts colleges scored 50 points or above.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/guide-to-colleges/

Seems to be a problem.

 

[dvdjs]

but all of his research leads him to think it is a serious problem

But not the one that you suggested:

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

It seems that you are shifting the conversation to back away from this suggestion. Good.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

but all of his research leads him to think it is a serious problem

But not the one that you suggested:

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

It seems that you are shifting the conversation to back away from this suggestion. Good.

You didn’t spend much time reading the methodology for how the rankings were determined, did you?

Let me help you out. The factors all relate to how the college or university permits diversity of opinion to be expressed and welcomed. Attacking and banning viewpoint diversity is at the crux of how the rankings were determined, but specifically with the 4th criterion.

1. Relevant Events Since 2014: Schools start with a rating of .5.

Events on campus that indicate a commitment by faculty, administration and/or students to protect free inquiry and viewpoint diversity are labeled GREEN (+.25 each). If events indicate a restriction or punishment of dissenting opinions or speakers, they are labeled RED (-.25 each). We break out events by their source (students, faculty or administration) and ignore events that involve just a few students or professors, choosing instead to focus on events indicating broader sentiment, norms, or policy. Again, we’re always trying to look at it from the perspective of an incoming first-year student.

The relevant event scores range from a minimum of 0 to a maximum of 1.

Example: The support of a college paper by the President of Wesleyan University in light of calls for censorship and vandalism after an objectionable op-ed. (Raised score by 3 points, crediting Administration)

Example: Students shut down a panel event at Rutgers discussing free speech. (Lowered score by 3 points, penalizing Students)

The three Relevant Events scores contribute 45% of the overall Heterodoxy score for each school. The Student score is weighted as 20%, Administrators are 15% and Faculty are 10%. (We weight students most heavily because our research indicates that students walk on eggshells primarily out of fear of their fellow students.)

Violence penalty: We subtract 3 points from the Heterodoxy score for each instance where there is an assault on individuals (as defined legally) or clear physical intimidation, or significant property damage, if that violence is intended to stop or shut down an event or is otherwise directed at a speaker or in response to a particular campus policy or event. (If it is clear that students played no role in the violence, then no penalty is levied. But if students were a significant part of a mob that used violence or physical intimidation, then we levy the penalty.)

The “one I suggested” of "ban[ning] anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses” is precisely one of the critical factors determining whether or not the campus permits diversity of opinions within its domain.

Keep talking, though, your position is getting more diluted and weaker by the minute.

 

[dvdjs]

You didn’t spend much time reading the methodology for how the rankings were determined, did you?

You are incorrect.

But please note: if this group had used your criterion

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

then all campuses would have had a green light. Presumably you do understand that disrupting a speaker, as loathsome as that is, is not the same a banning anyone with a different perspective.

If you would like to have a serious discussion, you must stipulate to this point.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

You didn’t spend much time reading the methodology for how the rankings were determined, did you?

You are incorrect.

But please note: if this group had used your criterion

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

then all campuses would have had a green light. Presumably you do understand that disrupting a speaker, as loathsome as that is, is not the same a banning anyone with a different perspective.

If you would like to have a serious discussion, you must stipulate to this point.

Honestly, I have no idea what you are going on about.

The fact that so many universities scored low (below 50 points) means they have been found to not support viewpoint diversity and one of the criteria for determining that is violence or intimidation designed to shut down the event.

Why would “all campuses have had a green light?” The criteria includes but is not limited to banning or shutting down events. So no, just because the criteria is beyond that doesn’t mean they would all have green lights. Many would have had red based on the more extreme banning while others because of a more cumulative set of infringements – 3 points are subtracted for each instance of violence, intimidation, or damage. It doesn’t matter that the attempt to shut down the event was successful or that the speaker was actually banned.

You aren’t trying to claim that if the speaker wasn’t actually banned there is no harm to be counted, are you?

What do you suppose I meant by, “…to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective…?” The fact that the university or students tried to silence through violence, intimidation or property damage, is bad enough, no?

The fact that they DIDN’T succeed may be more a function of the perseverance of the speaker or organization promoting the speaker than it is about the viewpoint diversity of the campus.

Again, I have no idea where you are going with this.

 

[dvdjs]

Honestly, I have no idea what you are going on about.

Apparently not. Sad.

You made an broad statement.

universities have become predominantly leftist and socialist to the point that they ban anyone with a different perspective from speaking on their campuses

That statement is indefensible. So now you bring in a website that make far less sweeping judgements, however flimsily supported by their actual observations. But they do not support your original contention. Neither do they provide enough smoke to conceal it. It doesn’t.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

And one who is less sympathetic to the Democratic party would say this shows that Democrats today are better at keeping people living in deplorable conditions, whereas Republicans are better at allowing people to live more comfortably.

It’s never as simple as either case, but you have to admit but the cities with the most chaos and poverty and largely dominated by Democratic legislatures and leadership.

 

[Inisfallen]

but you have to admit but the cities with the most chaos and poverty and largely dominated by Democratic legislatures and leadership.

Sure. The same is probably true of the cities with the least chaos and poverty, though.

 

[Jeanne_S]

It would do everybody some good to listen to Dennis Prager.His motto Clarity over disagreement.You never know what you might learn about yourself,listening to him