follow up do protestants catholics go to heaven

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Daniel_Marsh

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Do catholics think that protestants are excluded from heaven?

yes
no

Then ask for our protestant friends what they think by asking

Do protestants think that catholics are excluded from heaven?
yes
no
 
I’m not sure why we need another thread, but I’ll repeat what I said on the first one:

A true protestant can’t go to heaven, because he’s rejected the Church. There is no salvation outside the church.

So, in that sense, no protestants go to heaven.

That being said, just being born into a protestant family is hardly a sin. If one has been validly baptised and is part of a protestant church out of ignorance, heaven is certainly a possibility.

This is because there is only one baptism. When one is validly baptised in a protestant church, one is really baptised into the Catholic Church, thus becoming a member of the Catholic Church - although a member in imperfect communion. If someone who has been validly baptised dies without the stain of mortal sin, they will go to heaven. Being a protestant is only sinful when it is a deliberate rebellion against Christ’s true church: formal heresy; so, simply being a protestant does not mean that one is in a state of mortal sin.

This is what the Church means in saying that protestant churches are used as *“instruments of salvation” *by the Spirit of Christ. This is not meant to praise protestant churches, but instead to acknowledge the validity of their sacramental baptism - which indeed offers salvation.

The guessing game of just how many “separated brethren” go to heaven is just plain silly. No one can know if “all” or “most” or “some” or “none” of them are going to heaven, because no one but God can know their hearts.
 
i very rarely will post on the forums cause im more of a lurker (someone who doesnt post but does read alot of the stuff going on) but i just wanted to say that i think most protestants are going to heaven it was an accident about me voting for them not to
 
If you are baptized which most protestants are… eventually. Then they pass the free from original sin litmus. But after that if they *believe *then they are good there. But if they die with mortal sin on their souls then they will not reach heaven. This is true of anyone, but we catholics and orthodox have sacramental confession.

Since they lack sacramental confession I believe it is much harder for them to reach heaven. But not impossible and I certainly hope that as many as possible do make it.

But remeber rejecting the Church is rejecting Jesus and thus a mortal sin. If you are only rejecting the church because you were brought up that way it is one thing, but to look at the facts as you grow older and after all your investigation still say to hell with the Pope and all those Minnow Munching Catholics and their Smells and Bells then well I would say it is safe to say you are rejecting the Church and thus the one who sent the Church, Jesus.
 
To Dauphin

How arrogant of a reply! What a Christian! . You can discuss further with the protestants in hell when you get there!
 
Can a Protestant be completely at fault for being deceived to believe the Catholic Church is false? If someone openly knew the Catholic Church was indeed the Church founded by Christ they would be jumping in head first. Unless they truly did not want ot follow God. The reason they deny is either misinformation, indifferentism, or uncertainty.
 
What’s the point of this thread? To stir up trouble?

Oh, for either to say yes to either question is arrogant and ignorant.
 
I believe anyone can go to heaven if they:

Believen Christ
Believen the Trinity
Study the Bible
Follow the 10 commandments and other laws, as best as they can
 
To Dauphin

I apologize for the remark in my reply in that I only read part of your post that implied Protestants do not go to heaven without reading on to your further insights. It is still clear at least to me( as it was in readings on Mother Theresa) that if you are a good Protestant, Mormon, Musllim etc that salvation can be yours .In his depiction of the final Judgement, Jesus makes no reference to doctrine or belief. The deciding factor of who goes to heaven or hell is the way they have dealt with other people(Matt 25:35-40)
 
Dauphin said:
A true protestant can’t go to heaven, because he’s rejected the Church.
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I haven’t rejected anything. I say the Apostles’ Creed every Sunday, and I believe in the Holy Catholic Church (and the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, etc.).
:confused:
 
O.S.Luke said:
I haven’t rejected anything. I say the Apostles’ Creed every Sunday, and I believe in the Holy Catholic Church (and the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, etc.).
:confused:
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Don’t worry Luke, I think you’re probably ok. 😉
 
This is what I have figured out thus far as a non-Catholic.

Catholics of course have the advantage of tradition (whatever that is) and a teaching magisterium that is incapable of being incorrect. As a result they have what is called “Catholic unity” as opposed to the Protestants who all believe “Sola Scriptura” which has produced approximately 3567128 denominations with the number increasing daily.

Catholics believe something called “There is no salvation outside of the Catholic church”. Now I could ask where in the Bible they get that from, but of course that is an invalid question because since Catholics don’t believe in “Sola Scriptura”, they do not operate under the limitations that Protestants do of making sure that the Bible actually teaches something before they believe it.

Now the quote “There is no salvation salvation outside of the Catholic church” was said (I think) first by St. Cyprius of Carthage in 150AD or so when the Catholic church was the only game in town outside of the gnostics and other wierdos. It is perfectly logical according to Catholicism to lift that quote, dogmatize it, and plop it down here in the 21st century under conditions that St. Cyprius couldn’t even imagine.

Now to some Catholics this is quite cut and dry. It was quite clear that St. Cyprius meant (and later reaffirmed by many popes through the ages), that if you are not a card carrying Catholic you go directly to hell…do not pass go…do not collect $200. Well perhaps maybe something called “invincible ignorance” could apply to a few. But for folks like me who know of the claims of Catholicism and still obstinately remain outside of the “Ark of Safety”, “invincible ignorance” just does not apply. We bake in the lake forever when we die.

However to some Catholics this quote has a different meaning. Vatican 2.0 has changed the rules that somehow we now are separated brethren (I know that really the rules have not changed and some really smart people can tell me how this is the same thing…but by all appearances to us folks like me who lack reading comprehension skills is that something has changed). The best explanation I have received is that now I am a Catholic (having been Baptized under the trinitarian formula), I just don’t know it yet. Maybe in purgatory I will get a clue.

Anyway, this perspective is the one that is supported rom the Catechism which as we all know is the authentic guide to Catholic teaching.

However, to the other Catholics, Vatican 2.0 changed nothing. I have received a number of explanations as to why this is ranging from
(1) It is not infallible and therefore is heretical because it conflicts with what previous popes have infallibly declared,
(2) See (1) with the added twist and the popes that produced this heresy are really antipopes, The Catholic church now lacks a valid pope
(3) It is not heresy, but the Catechism has misinterpreted it and is incorrect.

And on it goes. Having followed these forums for some time, Catholics disagree amongst themselves on what exactly their own church teaches in this regard.

Meanwhile, Catholics of course have an infallible magisterium that has created “Catholic unity” as opposed to Protestants who all believe in “Sola Scriptura” that has created about 5672398 protestant denominations.
 
If the Body of Christ is NOT the Church of the living God, the pillar and mainstay of truth, then scripture can be wrong.

If scripture can be wrong, the Church that compiled that scripture can be wrong. If the Church can be wrong, as the Body of Christ, Christ can be wrong. This is pure logic.

So if the Catholic Church declares it is possible for protestants to enter the kingdom of Heaven, then it must be so.

However, One important note to remember is that Our Lord does not exempt the ignorant from suffering for not doing the will of God although their suffering is the lesser.

That is why those who in ignorance follow after heresies will suffer for the heresy, even though they thought the heresy to be truth, for they had the opportunity to know the truth.
 
Clarky said:
That is why those who in ignorance follow after heresies will suffer for the heresy, even though they thought the heresy to be truth, for they had the opportunity to know the truth.
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I not sure that’s true. The Church also puts a lot of stock in following your conscious (I remember seeing this in the catechism). IMO and the Church at least to a certain degree, if one truly believes that the path they’re on is the right one, I don’t believe punishment is inevitable.

Looking at it from another way, only God knows for sure who is in the right and who is not, and only he will judge. You and I can speculate, but that’s all it is, speculation.
 
mozart-250 said:
This is what I have figured out thus far as a non-Catholic.

Catholics of course have the advantage of tradition (whatever that is) and a teaching magisterium that is incapable of being incorrect. As a result they have what is called “Catholic unity” as opposed to the Protestants who all believe “Sola Scriptura” which has produced approximately 3567128 denominations with the number increasing daily…
Now the quote “There is no salvation salvation outside of the Catholic church” was said (I think) first by St. Cyprius of Carthage in 150AD or so when the Catholic church was the only game in town outside of the gnostics and other wierdos. It is perfectly logical according to Catholicism to lift that quote, dogmatize it, and plop it down here in the 21st century under conditions that St. Cyprius couldn’t even imagine…
Meanwhile, Catholics of course have an infallible magisterium that has created “Catholic unity” as opposed to Protestants who all believe in “Sola Scriptura” that has created about 5672398 protestant denominations.
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I have to say you have given a totally awesome answer for someone from the Assembly of God. (just kidding:p ) It is exactly the right answer and you were looking at the BIG picture and that is good.

Just like blatently Anti-Catholic Protestants, Catholics who are narrow minded and don’t take quotes within context, history, and the people and customes of the time, drive me crazy. :hypno: Thank you for seeing and understanding. You sure you don’t want to be Catholic? As Stephan Ray, a protestant minister converted to Catholicism, says, “Protestants are our brothers and sisters in Christ. They just haven’t found the fullness of Faith”
 
puppypatrol said:
I have to say you have given a totally awesome answer…
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I’ll say. Not only is it understandable, it was a “fun read” and to top it off, is just about what I was thinking myself, which makes it true beyond any doubt (tee hee).

But seriously.

“We know where the Church is. We don’t know where the Church is not.” Boy, do I wish I had said that first, but no.

I recall discussing way back there after V-II closed that we had pretty much decided anybody who was a relatively devout practitioner of *any *religion was in fact included under the umbrella of The Church (outside of which…) and those who did not know Catholicism were not penalized for their ignorance. That was meant to include ignorant Christians. *Ignorance *here is not meant to be derogatory in the least, just unlearned, not yet having discovered (or once having been shown, accepted) Catholicism’s truth.

Said another way, to be considered outside the Church one had to know what one was leaving, or refusing to join, with the requisite knowledge of it’s truth in one’s possession.

That is, to know the Truth and to choose otherwise. Apostasy.

I’ll leave it to another thread to discuss what responsible role we Catholic Christians have in bringing the Truth to our separated brethren.
 
Kenneth_Jones said:
I’ll say. Not only is it understandable, it was a “fun read” and to top it off, is just about what I was thinking myself, which makes it true beyond any doubt (tee hee).

But seriously.

…

That is, to know the Truth and to choose otherwise. Apostasy.

I’ll leave it to another thread to discuss what responsible role we Catholic Christians have in bringing the Truth to our separated brethren.
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The goal of all Catholic Christians is to show our brothers and sisters in Christ but not in the fullness of the faith, what is is to be a complete and fullfilled Christian through our word AND through our actions and attitude.
 
mikew262 said:
I not sure that’s true. The Church also puts a lot of stock in following your conscious (I remember seeing this in the catechism). IMO and the Church at least to a certain degree, if one truly believes that the path they’re on is the right one, I don’t believe punishment is inevitable.

Looking at it from another way, only God knows for sure who is in the right and who is not, and only he will judge. You and I can speculate, but that’s all it is, speculation.
Click to expand...
In the Bible, St. Paul gives us a list of grave sins. He states that anyone who commits these sins shall not enter the kingdom of God.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, (HERESIES), envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:19-20).

Mortal sins destroy the grace of God in the heart of the sinner. By their very grave nature, a mortal sin cuts our relationship off from God and turns man away from his creator.

Paragragh 1472 Catholic Catechism: "To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin.

On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the"temporal punishment" of sin.

These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain."

From my understanding the Church affirms my earler post. “That is why those who in ignorance follow after heresies will suffer for the heresy, even though they thought the heresy to be truth, for they had the opportunity to know the truth.”

From the New Testament Greek Lexicon based on Thayer’s and Smith’s Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.

Punishment: Execution of a sentence, punishment to suffer punishment

I would take no comfort in suffering punishment even if it was temporal.
 
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