Following PreCanna Classes do any Priests ever deny a couple permission to marry?

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Luvs2Learn

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I was just reading an article about the hi divorce rate and I was wondering a few things…

1: what % of recognized Catholic marriages end in divorce? (by recognized I mean presumed valid church marriage,proper dispensation if nessessary etc… not a Justice of the Peace or or other civil wedding)

2: Do Priests ever Deny a couple permission to Marry if they feel the couple is incompatible?
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I was just reading an article about the hi divorce rate and I was wondering a few things…

1: what % of recognized Catholic marriages end in divorce? (by recognized I mean presumed valid church marriage,proper dispensation if nessessary etc… not a Justice of the Peace or or other civil wedding)

2: Do Priests ever Deny a couple permission to Marry if they feel the couple is incompatible?
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Interesting question. I have never heard of that, am curious myself.

I remember years ago my cousin went to classes before they were married. I don’t remember if it was Catholic or not, regardless, after they did all the classes and the tests, the priest/pastor pulled them aside and strongly recommended they NOT get married, in a very direct and strong way! In hindsight it is rather amusing. I don’t think they lasted more than 2 years, and they hated each other for most of it!!!
 
I had a relative who was advised by the first priest she and her fiance approached not to marry as well - they found another priest to marry them instead. Their marriage didn’t last either - I think it was about four years.

Moral of the story - even though priests aren’t married, they do at least sometimes know what they’re talking about in regards marriage!
 
I’m not sure a priest can refuse to witness the Sacrament of Matrimony simply because he believes the couple is incompatible personality-wise. Especially considering that couples confer the sacrament on each other, not the priest on them. Obviously he could counsel them, and he can and should refuse to preside over a wedding that would be canonically invalid, but personality conflicts are not a matter of Canon Law.

I don’t know though. It’s a good question.
 
Moscati said:
I’m not sure a priest can refuse to witness the Sacrament of Matrimony simply because he believes the couple is incompatible personality-wise. Especially considering that couples confer the sacrament on each other, not the priest on them. Obviously he could counsel them, and he can and should refuse to preside over a wedding that would be canonically invalid, but personality conflicts are not a matter of Canon Law.

I don’t know though. It’s a good question.
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Well, a priest can refuse to baptise people in certain circumstances - a child if he believes that there’s no chance it will be raised in the Catholic faith, for example.

He can refuse absolution to people who he believes lack contrition for their sins.

He can (and must) refuse communion to pro-abortion politicians and the like.

Why could he not refuse to witness the marital vows of people he believes, after seeing them through the process of preparation, aren’t prepared to live up to those vows for whatever reason?

To witness them believing that the couple AREN’T prepared, it seems to me, would be an inexcusable cheapening of the sacrament.
 
I think there was a thread recently that says only 22% of marriages end up in divorce.
AS regards priests denying marriage due to incompatibility, the issues have to be defined a bit since I don’t think Canon Law mentions “incompatibility” as an impediment for marriage. That is why there is the requirement of Canonical form so that the priest can really find out whether an impediment exists or not. And during the interview of the couple the priest may ask relevant questions. If he says the couple are incompatible then he must be basing his judgment on the results of the interview or the answers of the couple in the questionnaire given to them.
 
The priest who married my sister and brother-in-law refuses to marry couples who cohabitate prior to marriage. 👍
 
LilyM said:
Well, a priest can refuse to baptise people in certain circumstances - a child if he believes that there’s no chance it will be raised in the Catholic faith, for example.

He can refuse absolution to people who he believes lack contrition for their sins.

He can (and must) refuse communion to pro-abortion politicians and the like.

Why could he not refuse to witness the marital vows of people he believes, after seeing them through the process of preparation, aren’t prepared to live up to those vows for whatever reason?

To witness them believing that the couple AREN’T prepared, it seems to me, would be an inexcusable cheapening of the sacrament.
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I guess I’m thinking about this differently. Obviously, the priest can and should refuse to marry those he does not think intend to live up to their marriage vows, or are planning to refuse to welcome children, and so on. Those are canonical requirements.

What I’m envisioning is some sort of 100-question test that is supposed to measure ‘compatibility’ (i.e. I’m an introvert, you’re an extrovert; I like cheese, you don’t, etc.) and if you fail, you aren’t permitted to marry. Is “compatibility” a canonical requirement? All those other things–contrition, a promise to raise one’s child in the faith, no mortal sinners receiving Communion–are canonical requirements. Can one be prepared without being compatible? (I honestly don’t know.)

I guess I’m hung up on what we mean when we say compatibility. It makes me think of those online dating sites. 🙂
 
Moscati said:
Permanently? 😦 Or just until they repent and resolved the situation?
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As far as I know, he’s more than willing to marry couples who repent and cease co-habitating (or who live as brother and sister). But to my knowledge he won’t marry those who are cohabitating and unrepentant/unwilling to change the situation.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I was just reading an article about the hi divorce rate and I was wondering a few things…

1: what % of recognized Catholic marriages end in divorce? (by recognized I mean presumed valid church marriage,proper dispensation if nessessary etc… not a Justice of the Peace or or other civil wedding)

2: Do Priests ever Deny a couple permission to Marry if they feel the couple is incompatible?
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I DO know priests who have encouraged couples NOT to get married in the Church because they were not ready, but if they wanted to get married civilly they could decide to do so on their own and come back later to bless their marriage if they want.

Catholics in the United States divorce as much as the national average.
 
I guess what I meant by compadibility was along this line:
(This is a made up example):
When the Priest has his 1 0n 1 interview and reviews the FOCUS questionaire and also asks his own spiritual questions ans finds out that say, Sally is a devout Catholic who is looking forward to having lots of children and attending weekly Mass as a family. Then the Priest interviews Tom the Fiance and he feels obligated to be honest to the Priest and says he really only wants 2 kids and would attend Mass at least 1 a month with the family to make his wife happy.
The Priest feels that in the long run Sally will become lonely and resentful of her decission to marry a partner not on the same spiritual path as her.

this is just 1 example but this is what I am talking about. I mean I read so many threads on this forum that talk about unequally yolked couples and their lonliness… it is so sad.
 
I know of a priest who denied a couple permission to marry on the basis that one of the partners suffered from schizophrenia. Both of them were outraged, and went to the Bishop, who thankfully upheld what the priest had said. The couple eventually were married at a Registrar’s, and I believe the marriage barely lasted a year.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I guess what I meant by compadibility was along this line:
(This is a made up example):
When the Priest has his 1 0n 1 interview and reviews the FOCUS questionaire and also asks his own spiritual questions ans finds out that say, Sally is a devout Catholic who is looking forward to having lots of children and attending weekly Mass as a family. Then the Priest interviews Tom the Fiance and he feels obligated to be honest to the Priest and says he really only wants 2 kids and would attend Mass at least 1 a month with the family to make his wife happy.
The Priest feels that in the long run Sally will become lonely and resentful of her decission to marry a partner not on the same spiritual path as her.

this is just 1 example but this is what I am talking about. I mean I read so many threads on this forum that talk about unequally yolked couples and their lonliness… it is so sad.
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Hm . . . well, I think Tom saying he only wants 2 kids would probably be an indication that he’s not willing to lovingly accept children, which is a canonical requirement. Limiting family size (by licit means) is a decision that should be made as the need arises, not ahead of time, IMO.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I was just reading an article about the hi divorce rate and I was wondering a few things…

1: what % of recognized Catholic marriages end in divorce? (by recognized I mean presumed valid church marriage,proper dispensation if nessessary etc… not a Justice of the Peace or or other civil wedding)
Click to expand...
I can only imagine it would be very similar to the general public.
 
O_Duirnin said:
I know of a priest who denied a couple permission to marry on the basis that one of the partners suffered from schizophrenia. Both of them were outraged, and went to the Bishop, who thankfully upheld what the priest had said. The couple eventually were married at a Registrar’s, and I believe the marriage barely lasted a year.
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Well, depending on the nature and severity of the illness, it certainly could call into question whether the sufferer was entirely capable of considered consent to the wedding vows. I don’t want to offend any sufferers, or tar them all with the same brush, but surely it can be said that some sufferers, at least at certain times, aren’t completely rational.
Moscati said:
Hm . . . well, I think Tom saying he only wants 2 kids would probably be an indication that he’s not willing to lovingly accept children, which is a canonical requirement. Limiting family size (by licit means) is a decision that should be made as the need arises, not ahead of time, IMO.
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The priest could also be looking further down the track - if the father is not a regular Mass-goer it may be that there are doubts about his ability to take seriously his commitment to raising the children in the Catholic faith. Not an issue with a non-Catholic spouse, as long as they are willing to allow the Catholic party to instruct the child in the faith, but an important part of the marital obligation for a Catholic.
 
Moscati said:
I’m not sure a priest can refuse to witness the Sacrament of Matrimony simply because he believes the couple is incompatible personality-wise. Especially considering that couples confer the sacrament on each other, not the priest .
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marriage preparation is not E-harmony, it is not about compatibility in 37 areas, it is about capacity and intention to contract a valid marriage, and if they are not evident the priest MUST delay or deny marriage.
 
puzzleannie said:
marriage preparation is not E-harmony, it is not about compatibility in 37 areas, it is about capacity and intention to contract a valid marriage, and if they are not evident the priest MUST delay or deny marriage.
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Right . . . that was my point. 🙂
 
puzzleannie said:
marriage preparation is not E-harmony, it is not about compatibility in 37 areas, it is about capacity and intention to contract a valid marriage, and if they are not evident the priest MUST delay or deny marriage.
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However, the evidence of that lack of capacity or intention can manifest itself in “compatibility” issues through counseling with the priest.

This is only anectodal, but during marriage prep my friends had a number of meetings with the priest preparing them. Being a large parish, the priest had standing meetings set up with couples, for example Couple A, Tuesday at 7 and Couple B Tuesday at 8. My friends were couple B. Couple A got into fights with each other in every session with the priest, my friends could hear the raised voices/screaming through the wall and closed door of the priest’s office all the way out in the waiting area!

Then one week there was no screaming. That is because the priest had told the couple they were not ready for marriage and refused to continue with marriage preparation. He thought their differences, and the way they handled them, we so fundamental they signalled that this was not a marriage he could in good conscience witness. He refused to marry them.
 
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