Food Price Riots Popping Up Around The World

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and BTW, Vern, I read you once ran for office so maybe you understand what I’m saying here:

Any candidate who does not portray him/herself as the answer to an optimistic future has little chance of getting elected. People don’t want to know they have a problem on the horizon.
I had a fellow who once ran for state representative in one of the delta counties (those along the Mississippi River) tell me, “Don’t promise to bring jobs to this county. That was my mistake. They don’t want jobs.”:rolleyes:

Yes, I saw this crisis coming years ago – had it been in my poswer, I would have had plenty of nuclear plants, electric trains criss-crossing the country, bio-diesel (instead of alcohol) and offshore drilling – along with the refining capacity to deal with the needed oil.
 
Although I am a godless liberal, I know that isn’t going to happen. I do think a liberal president is more likely to engage in Keynesian policies that will build infrastructure for a more energy efficient economy (such as funding more alternative energy research and building light rails). Republicans will dogmatically yell vacuously “free market!”
I’m sure you’ve watch The End of Suburbia (sometimes the full 60min DVD is on youtube for free viewing)

As one person pointed out on that DVD for mass transit to work population desity is needed. Suburbia is low desity. Look at ski resorts as a better model. Developers use as much square footage as possible to get the maxium return on their building investments. Mass transit and pedistrian traffic works in these resorts. The mimic Old Word European villages. New Urbanism attempts to mimic earlier towns

1 to 9 videos from the same lecture on the problems of urban planning
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Although I am a godless liberal, I know that isn’t going to happen. I do think a liberal president is more likely to engage in Keynesian policies that will build infrastructure for a more energy efficient economy (such as funding more alternative energy research and building light rails). Republicans will dogmatically yell vacuously “free market!”
I’ll stipulate that you are a liberal, but I would not accuse you of being godless. I do think you are overestimating the effectiveness of “building the future” by fiat. That’s exactly what the corn/ethanol boondoggle is. I am inclined to believe that reasonably free societies will meet actual needs with practical solutions to the needs as they really are. Unrealistic market solutions are liquidated. Unrealistic governmental solutions tend not to be.

Light rails in the past were not federal solutions. They were local governmental or private or a combination of both. As local governments already own the logical rights of way, and are more familiar with actual community needs than is a centralized government, I would expect them to respond when the need (public demand) is sufficiently evident. When it comes to local solutions to local infrastructure needs, “liberalism” and “conservatism” in the ideological sense, are not terribly relevant.

I do not see any of the presidential candidates espousing any particular alternative energy policy. Nevertheless, if by “Keyensian” you mean “government interventionist” I would expect the liberal candidates to be, like Richard Nixon, more Keynesian.

The current Republican president and congress have thrown a great deal of money at alternative energy programs. None has yet borne visible fruit, though it’s probably too early to know for sure that none will. Unfortunately, liberal forces have prevented exploration for oil in the places where it is most likely to be found, nuclear power and extraction from tar sands and oil shale.

And, having had a liberal congress for some time now, I do not see policies to encourage more effective insulation. Construction now is not at all different in that regard than it was in the 1950s, with the sole exception of the prevalence of Anderson-type windows which were a matter of consmer choice. In no way has any administration or congress encouraged doing better except for a brief period in the 1970s. Local building codes have, however, encouraged it in commercial building and retrofitting, to some degree.
 
and BTW, Vern, I read you once ran for office so maybe you understand what I’m saying here:

Any candidate who does not portray him/herself as the answer to an optimistic future has little chance of getting elected. People don’t want to know they have a problem on the horizon.
Doug, and God help any candidate who understands the matter of the human carrying capacity of the planet!
 
I’ll stipulate that you are a liberal, but I would not accuse you of being godless. I do think you are overestimating the effectiveness of “building the future” by fiat. That’s exactly what the corn/ethanol boondoggle is. I am inclined to believe that reasonably free societies will meet actual needs with practical solutions to the needs as they really are. Unrealistic market solutions are liquidated. Unrealistic governmental solutions tend not to be.



I do not see any of the presidential candidates espousing any particular alternative energy policy. Nevertheless, if by “Keyensian” you mean “government interventionist” I would expect the liberal candidates to be, like Richard Nixon, more Keynesian.
I want an extremely ambitious project. I know that trying to find solutions to these perplexing problems will involve an enormous amount of resources. I said on another thread that I am willing to see entitlement programs cut to accomplish this (along with an increase in taxes.) I am willing to ostensibly betray some of liberal principles because I know that if we do not solve this, the consequences will be dire. Most of humanity will be mired in a perpetual state of poverty and misery if the solutions do not come to fruition with a decade. Ask yourself if the concepts of charity and social justice would have any meaning if we do not means to alleviate suffering and reduce poverty. In such a scenario the moral philosophy of Rawls and Singer would have little meaning as life would be seen as a zero-sum struggle for meager natural resources.

I also prefer “building the world” approaches as a form of charity. It is also the main reason why I loathe myself. I want to have the ability to engage in ambitious projects to promote Rawlsian principles and address human needs (such as donating to think tanks and other organizations that promote those values, and funding for R&D and venture capital firms related to alternative energy). Donating a few dollars to charity is no where near the magnitude of such an approach and it does not seem to drown out plenty of human misery.

When I mention “Keynesianism,” I mention it in the context of shared prosperity and full employment. I was specially applying it in a scenario where the federal government spends money for public works projects which provides employment and stimulates aggregate demand. “Keynesianism” could also apply to tax cuts for the wealthy and military Keynesianism, although liberals do not endorse those manifestations of “Keynesianism.”

Unlike many peak oilers, I am not solely obsessed with discussing a die-off, although I believe it is a realistic possibility unfortunately. I still think it is likely, but not guaranteed, that human ingenuity will prevail. I do hope the depletion of natural resources will cause some adversity in developed countries and force us to be more conscientious about the environment, but new technology will mitigate the impact so it does not cause a significant decline in the quality of life. Of course, I want consumerism and conspicuous consumption to be discouraged by such adversity, but I also want some technologies to be viable after the depletion of natural gas, coal, fissionable isotopes and oil such as computers.
 
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Of course, I want consumerism and conspicuous consumption to be discouraged by such adversity.
Adversity aside for a moment, to what do you attribute consumerism and conspicuous consumption?

Would you consider individual investment in productive assets a greater social good than “investment” in consumer goods that are not really necessities? (e.g., savings or constructing one’s own solar-powered “hothouse” vs buying the “big screen”)

If your answer to the previous question is affirmative, then what is your best solution?

And what is “military Keynesianism”? I suspect it amounts to militarizing the unemployeed, but I don’t know that.

Have you considered the possibility that, in the U.S. at least, unemployment (excepting structural unemployment, of course) is extremely low, and perhaps the true unemployment rate may even be negative? (Deduct transitional unemployment, deduct illegals, deduct consistent overtime work, moonlighting and self employment “on the side”)
 
Ridgerunner, that corn/ethanol is boondoggle is at least one thing you and I agree upon. But I, like Exxon who’s researched, don’t see any biofuels solving the problem anytime soon. With at least 90% of the corps production (and I’m being generious) needing to get reinvested back to growing next years harvest only 10% is left to go to the consumers. Even if the half the liquid fuels used were replace you still talking about producing 25,800,000 bbls per day of bio anyfuel (86 million times 60% of a bbl going to fuel tmes one half) = 25,800,000. I’m doing the mats on a rush but I think that’s right. Somebody can check the math if they want.

Standard Oil, GM, and Goodyear were convected of buying up the light rail systems so that commuters would have to ride GM busses/cars, running on Standard’s gas and Goodyear tires.
 
I want an extremely ambitious project. I know that trying to find solutions to these perplexing problems will involve an enormous amount of resources.
Ribozyme, all the good intentions in the world will be worthless if we’re still trying to feed, clothe, and house an indefinitely expanding human population. But as we’ve seen in this forum, “population” is still the ultimate taboo, especially among Catholics and Fundamentalist Christians.

Petrus
 
Ribozyme, all the good intentions in the world will be worthless if we’re still trying to feed, clothe, and house an indefinitely expanding human population. But as we’ve seen in this forum, “population” is still the ultimate taboo, especially among Catholics and Fundamentalist Christians.

Petrus
Funny how those who feel there should be fewer people on this planet never set the example by taking an early departure themselves.😛
 
Ribozyme, all the good intentions in the world will be worthless if we’re still trying to feed, clothe, and house an indefinitely expanding human population. But as we’ve seen in this forum, “population” is still the ultimate taboo, especially among Catholics and Fundamentalist Christians.

Petrus
I think it scares some people to admit that there really is still enough food and resources to feed everyone on earth, and that people are starving only because SOME OF US eat and consume more than our FAIR SHARE.

Let’s set the record straight: Do you believe are enough resources to feed all the people who are in the world TODAY? Yes or no.
 
I think it scares some people to admit that there really is still enough food and resources to feed everyone on earth, and that people are starving only because SOME OF US eat and consume more than our FAIR SHARE.

Let’s set the record straight: Do you believe are enough resources to feed all the people who are in the world TODAY? Yes or no.
Actually, people are starving because of the policies of their governments or because of tribal warfare. There’s plenty of food to go around, but there are people who see that some people don’t get any.
 
Funny how those who feel there should be fewer people on this planet never set the example by taking an early departure themselves.😛
Well, do you want them to commit suicide or you just want to be asinine?

I thought encouraging contraception and having less children is the preferred methodology. It requires little death.
Ribozyme, all the good intentions in the world will be worthless if we’re still trying to feed, clothe, and house an indefinitely expanding human population. But as we’ve seen in this forum, “population” is still the ultimate taboo, especially among Catholics and Fundamentalist Christians.
Is it possible to feed the current population? Or should we stop giving foreign aid now and play last person standing until the human population is at the natural carrying capacity? I understand discouraging population growth is necessary to prevent misery, but the idea of letting people die isn’t palatable.
 
Well, do you want them to commit suicide or you just want to be asinine?
Let them choose the most expeditious means of departure.
I thought encouraging contraception and having less children is the preferred methodology. It requires little death.
Ah, so someone else shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy the fruits of life, eh?😉
Is it possible to feed the current population? Or should we stop giving foreign aid now and play last person standing until the human population is at the natural carrying capacity? I understand discouraging population growth is necessary to prevent misery, but the idea of letting people die isn’t palatable.
Yes, it is possible to feed the current population – **if **you can get the food to them. Hunger is not due to a world-wide food shortage, but to an inability to get the food to all the people who need it – often due to the actions of brutal dictatorships and tribal warfare.
 
As opposed to them advocating death for the unborn?😉

Or you just ran out of arguments and must now resort to vilification?😛
So do you want them commit suicide? People who are really serious about this are not hypocrites. Some get sterilized as evidenced in another thread on this forum. Some adopt vegan or vegetarian diets.
 
So do you want them commit suicide?
Let them choose their own method of leaving the planet – instead of advocating the denial life to others.
People who are really serious about this are not hypocrites.
Oh, but they** are**! If they weren’t, they’d leave to make room for others.
Some get sterilized as evidenced in another thread on this forum. Some adopt vegan or vegetarian diets.
Not good enough – they continue to consume resources. Let them show their sincerity by departing.
 
Let them choose their own method of leaving the planet – instead of advocating the denial life to others.

Oh, but they** are**! If they weren’t, they’d leave to make room for others.

Not good enough – they continue to consume resources. Let them show their sincerity by departing.
How is advocating sterlization and contraception a “denial of life.” Those entities do not even exist so one is only “denying life” to a hypothetical being that will never be conceived.

What do you mean by departing? I could only think about “suicide” when you mention that word. Do you really want them to commit suicide. Do you think that THEY should commit suicide? Please define “depart.”
 
Actually, people are starving because of the policies of their governments or because of tribal warfare. There’s plenty of food to go around, but there are people who see that some people don’t get any.
That viewpoint used to be true, but is quickly becoming out of date with rising food prices.
 
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