Food Price Riots Popping Up Around The World

[seekerz]

Hunger doesn’t really sound like the kind of topic to be making light of but then again, masses of people aren’t dying of hunger…yet.

I suppose part of being human is that history must regularly repeat itself - how positively sad.

Why get all hot around the collar because food is rotting in Haiti’s ports, delayed due to port fees and extensive searches for drugs, while Haitians develop creative ways of making the inedible palatable…

 

[BamaRider]

Hunger doesn’t really sound like the kind of topic to be making light of but then again, masses of people aren’t dying of hunger…yet.

Seekz nobody is making light of hunger, but some of y’all gotta lighten up. Now somebody put a post on here, about food riots in China, Peru or somewhere, and the insinuation was it was OUR fault, because we’re not doin enough.

We are NOT the problem. Our govt is pouring out billions home and abroad, and we gladly give to our Church to enable them to help as many as possible. I don’t know what else ya want us to do?

The problem is NOT us, but the govt of these people. For crying out loud they’re still plowing fields with donkeys and Ox, because they are so oppressed by tin horn dictators, and circus clowns (like that guy in Iran), and everybody knows when you put the leaders of the African countries in one room, it reminds us normal folks of the cantinia scene in the first Star Wars movie. They have put them in system that is bound to fail. But if ya do anything to remove these nuts the uproar will be loud and clear, “no you can’t do that, let the people there decide,” and the meantime millons go hungry.

Dang, I’m not gonna let y’all make me feel guilty at the Golder Corral Buffet and Steakhouse. And I reaaaaaaaly like the desert bar there.

 

[seekerz]

Seekz nobody is making light of hunger, but some of y’all gotta lighten up. Now somebody put a post on here, about food riots in China, Peru or somewhere, and the insinuation was it was OUR fault, because we’re not doin enough.

We are NOT the problem. Our govt is pouring out billions home and abroad, and we gladly give to our Church to enable them to help as many as possible. I don’t know what else ya want us to do?

The problem is NOT us, but the govt of these people. For crying out loud they’re still plowing fields with donkeys and Ox, because they are so oppressed by tin horn dictators, and circus clowns (like that guy in Iran), and everybody knows when you put the leaders of the African countries in one room, it reminds us normal folks of the cantinia scene in the first Star Wars movie. They have put them in system that is bound to fail. But if ya do anything to remove these nuts the uproar will be loud and clear, “no you can’t do that, let the people there decide,” and the meantime millons go hungry.

Dang, I’m not gonna let y’all make me feel guilty at the Golder Corral Buffet and Steakhouse. And I reaaaaaaaly like the desert bar there.

The generalizations are just about as offensive as the humor. Causes of food shortages are many (examples have been given) and have often have little to do with using oxen or having dictators.

This is a global economy and decisions taken in one corner of the globe have widespread repercussions. Waste, thoughtless spending habits, overuse of limited resources, short-sighted economic policies locally and/or globally all contribute to people not having enough to eat. Even subsidizing crops here can impact world food prices. So yes - it is everybody’s problem and hardly a laughing matter.

Hunger and starvation can lead to war and social upheaval which could threaten our security. If at least for that reason, we should be concerned when people take to the streets over food prices. On second thoughts maybe we can just wait to brand them terrorists when they resort to violence…

 

[BamaRider]

The generalizations are just about as offensive as the humor. Causes of food shortages are many (examples have been given) and have often have little to do with using oxen or having dictators.

This is a global economy and decisions taken in one corner of the globe have widespread repercussions. Waste, thoughtless spending habits, overuse of limited resources, short-sighted economic policies locally and/or globally all contribute to people not having enough to eat. Even subsidizing crops here can impact world food prices. So yes - it is everybody’s problem and hardly a laughing matter.

Hunger and starvation can lead to war and social upheaval which could threaten our security. If at least for that reason, we should be concerned when people take to the streets over food prices. On second thoughts maybe we can just wait to brand them terrorists when they resort to violence…

---

So you’re telling us, my going to the Golden Corral Buffet here in Alabama is causing food shortages in China?

I stand by my statement, the problem with those places is NOT what we do here, but the oppressive govts they live under. All they need is a hefty dose of Captialism and they might be able to feed themselves. And if ya think farming techiniques from the 1800 is not a problem them, I dunno what to tell ya sir.

And if they attack innocent Americans because they don’t think wer’re doin enough to feed them, then ya doggone right I’m gonna brand them terroists.

 

[seekerz]

Jesus never blamed the poor for their poverty but He does expect us to see to their welfare. That’s not optional. BTW I have no problems visiting Golden Corral - it’s just the flippant discussion of real people’s plight that disturbs me.

But I can see it’s useless discussing this with you, so good night and good conscience to you.

 

[BamaRider]

Now let us take a look at this statement in particular-

Causes of food shortages are many (examples have been given) and have often have little to do with using oxen or having dictators.

I believe it has almost everything to do with the system because-

In America we grow and farm in the desert! Now I dunno how much more ya gotta overcome to feed yourself. But we make it look routine. In fact, so routine nobody makes a big deal outta of it.

California’s San Joaquin Valley was once a arid dry place. But we transformed it to the richest fruit valley in the world. I don’t have the numbers but I’m thinking a large percentage of America’s fruits and vegetables, are grown and harvested by the hard working people there. What motivates such hard work? A chance to get rich!

Last but not least, the Great Plains of America, where only a smitten of people, grow enough to feed ALL of us, and much of the world. I’ve spent many, many hours, riding through the Dakotas and Kansas on back roads. I don’t think they can grow all that with a ox and donkey. I’m awestruck at the miles and miles of crops and cultivated land. Now there are places in the world that been farming much longer, with a much longer growing season, but still can’t do anything because they’re trapped in a myopic system. The farmer in Nebraska can do it because he is own business man, and he’s FREE.

Man all this doom and gloom from some folks, makes me wanna turn on my big screen with a bag of popcorn (NOT microwave either, but REAL popcorn in a popper). I might even watch Star Wars just so I can see the cantina scene again and see if I spot any crazy modern day African leaders, that you say have little to do with the plight of their people.

I don’t dismiss the plight of these folks, I give to my church and my govt sends billions to these places. I know how blessed I am, I don’t take if for granted. I am living my dream, not many get to do that, and I have no idea why the Lord allows me to, but he does. Now its unfortunate they’re mad in China about the food shortage, I told ya what they need to do to fix it. For sure feed who ya can, but not without telling them what needs to be done so they can feed themselves, and one of those things is getting rid of the leadership.

 

[seekerz]

Why the preoccupation with Africans? Read the title of the thread, then go read the news…even Italian merchants are voicing concern over the price of pasta.

Pardon me, but your posts reveal a side of some Catholics that I’d rather pretend didn’t exist.

BTW, what kind of oxen do the Chinese dictators give their people to produce the tons of products they flood our markets with? How much starvation existed in Iraq before the dictator Saddam was deposed? Have you even ever left these shores? Incredible!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

So you’re telling us, my going to the Golden Corral Buffet here in Alabama is causing food shortages in China?

I stand by my statement, the problem with those places is NOT what we do here, but the oppressive govts they live under. All they need is a hefty dose of Captialism and they might be able to feed themselves. And if ya think farming techiniques from the 1800 is not a problem them, I dunno what to tell ya sir.

And if they attack innocent Americans because they don’t think wer’re doin enough to feed them, then ya doggone right I’m gonna brand them terroists.

I don’t think its your fault that people are hungry. I just think that as Christians we should be willing to help them by sharing.

Also Canada and America have WAY more than our fair share of cropland for the amount of people who live here. WAY more. I personally think that means we have a responsibility to use that land to help people who live in countries where the land isn’t as productive and there are more people per square mile. At least from a Christian viewpoint I think we have a responsibility to share the food from it. And we’ve done a great job of that, but it might start to change as we dedicate cropland to biofuels

 

[j1s2a3]

No one knows the hour of Jesus returning and has nothing really to do with the reality of thread.However, its sinful to be w/o mercy lets pray for these children of God and fast while doing it maybe.In the end times Good will be bad and bad will be good.I find it hard to believe Father will continue to bless this nation if this attitude of gluttony in posted answers is common idea in USA.

 

[gam197]

The initial article that ribozyme posted is from the Christian Science Monitor, as far left as you get.

The other articles state that they know there are food shortages but one article listed groups that are taking on the cause. Bill Gates being one. **They are addressing this and that is the wonder of today. **

We are trying to catch famines before they happen. We also try to catch natural disasters and avoid as much damage as possible. One of causes for the rice shortage is the sidr cyclone in Bangladesh in November 2007.

It is great to be informed yet we in the United States have many problems also. Cost of gas and oil is also causing food prices to go up. We are still dealing with Katrina and the cost of a war.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I can drive 100 miles north, south or east and not see a single furrow of upturned earth. Our climate here is mild; the growing season is long and rainfall is plentiful. Why no farming? Because, while the land is certainly capable of growing crops, it’s not PERFECT land. If I drive northwest for fifty miles, yes, I run into the perfect land and it’s row cropped for hundreds of miles north from there.

If I drive straight north, or northeast, I can go a hundred miles and more without seeing row crops. (200 miles if I go northeast) But after about fifty miles, I also see no more than a handful of cattle here and there. Why? Because fifty or sixty miles north of here is the “fescue line”, where cool season grass will grow in abundance, but doesn’t stay green all winter long. You can raise cattle north of the line, but you have to feed hay most of the winter, and that costs more. That’s also north of the “Bermuda line” where the most productive warm season grasses don’t do well. In other words, you can raise cattle there, but it’s not PERFECT for raising cattle.

Even here, where it’s virtually perfect for cattle raising (and there are a lot of them) Australians and New Zealanders have come here with rapid rotation methods that cut the costs of fuel and labor, yet allow them to raise massively greater numbers of beef cattle per acre than “usual” methods do. And they even milk those beef cattle to boot, (not much per cow, but it’s high in butterfat, which is in great demand now…why do you think “Ben and Jerry’s” tastes so good?) and never, ever feed grain to their animals. Not a bit. Never. And yes, those methods actually conserve and build the soil. Lots of folks around here are starting to adopt those methods. Grass-fed beef is delicious. You don’t really need to feed grain. People do because grain has been so cheap for so long. I have seen plenty of times when it was cheaper to feed grain than it was to feed hay.

There is a massive amount of land in the U.S. that can grow food, but doesn’t. It doesn’t, largely because the chronically low price of agricultural commodities makes it uneconomical to do it and, because, notwithstanding the high degree of efficiency in American agriculture, there’s a lot more to learn. And it’s fascinating to think what would happen if (when) new strains of grass are developed that push the “fescue line” and the “Bermuda line” 200 miles farther north. Tests have shown that cattle will graze green grass under as much as a foot of loose snow, and thrive doing it. Telling people they’ll have to give up meat-eating is not smart. Ungulates convert cellulose, useless to humans, into highly digestible and nutritious protein, and cattle, sheep and goats don’t really need grain to do it.

I’m no economist, but I have read that a profitable and productive agricultural base is an “economy builder”. If farmers can make money producing, and know how to do it, they will produce, and capitalize the country while they’re at it, because they’ll be able to buy manufactured products with their profits. It will also free up labor for industrial activity that manufactures those products. I’m not persuaded yet that these price hikes are all that bad. They might just be a sign of economic improvement, bumpy though it may be. It doesn’t matter if a hamburger costs 5 cents if I only have 4 cents. Nor does it matter if a hamburger costs $50 if I have $51 with which to buy it.

I’m not a betting man, but if I had to, I would bet that Malthus is just as wrong in 2008 as he was in 1837.

 

[vern_humphrey]

The cost of food worldwide is related to the cost of oil. Fertilizer is made from oil, and tractors don’t run on water.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The cost of food worldwide is related to the cost of oil. Fertilizer is made from oil, and tractors don’t run on water.

Your point is indisputable. Nevertheless, not all fertilizer is/needs to be made from/manufactured with oil, and there are ways, in some agricultural sectors, to greatly reduce “tractor time”. Until recently, though, no one really had much incentive to look at alternatives.

I am no expert, and that’s for sure. But even I know some of the ways to reduce reliance on petroleum based/created fertilizers and tractor time. Some of them are dramatically effective.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Your point is indisputable. Nevertheless, not all fertilizer is/needs to be made from/manufactured with oil, and there are ways, in some agricultural sectors, to greatly reduce “tractor time”. Until recently, though, no one really had much incentive to look at alternatives.

The most effective fertilizer, for most food crops is made from oil. And alternative fertilizers (like manure) aren’t available in the quantities needed.

And I assure you, good farmers do all they can to minimize “tractor time.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hate to follow myself, but I will. I am still not persuaded that all food price increases are related to the cost of oil, though it is certainly a very big factor. Some, I would think, are related to preferences and the economic ability of people to exercise those preferences.

The poultry industry is a gargantuan consumer of corn. Increased consumption of poultry undoubtedly cause the price of corn to be higher than it would be if people simply ate the corn and had no poultry. But if people can increasingly afford the poultry, due to increased availability of jobs that pay cash, it’s not necessarily a bad thing on the whole. Obviously, though, if economic levels don’t rise with a fair degree of uniformity, it’s harmful to those who are still dependant on eating corn flour. Of course, if (and this is admittedly fantasy) poultry raisers were somehow able to utilize the incredible ability of insects like cockroaches to multiply on materials that are otherwise worthless, and could efficiently feed that to the poultry instead of corn, that could represent yet another intervening factor that could reduce the oil component of cost.

I doubt the “cockroach solution” is on Tyson Foods’ immediate plan list, but the principle is not to be discounted. (though the FDA would take a power of convincing) As I said before, it is perfectly possible to reduce the grain component (and thus the oil component) in the production of red meat, without any technological breakthroughs at all. Until recently, though, there has been little incentive to do it. Technological breakthroughs (like extending the “fescue line” northward), could have similar effects. Haying takes a lot of fuel. If it could be reduced, so could oil consumption.

 

[BamaRider]

BTW, what kind of oxen do the Chinese dictators give their people to produce the tons of products they flood our markets with? How much starvation existed in Iraq before the dictator Saddam was deposed? Have you even ever left these shores? Incredible

Well I dunno what they use to get those lead based toys to market, but I’m thinking any rice that makes it way here had a ox in the mix somewhere, and that is what we’re talking about-food.

You can probably start with the Kurds in northern Iraq if ya wanna know how much Saddam starved folks, but thats a whole nother thread.

You can focus on the African contineient because they are so bad off, and the entire world has been helping them for I dunno how long, but nothing never changes there, but those countries all have one thing in common-crazy leadership, but that doesn’t mean you give up trying to help those people. I never said that, I’m just saying might be time to take another look how we do it.

As far as being off these shores, that would be- yes! 10 day motorcycle tours of the UK in 2005 and the Continient a year later, including the Alps. Just riding backroads and sampling the culture. Toured the lower 48 at least 4 times over, including Alaska. Along the way I toured all Canada from Nova Scotia to the Yukon x2.

All by motorcycle, and the grace of God, who has watched over and protected me all these many miles.

All my adventures are documented here- www.bamarider.com

I retired at 49, and come and go as I please, so yeah, I get around. I only mention that cause ya brought up I prolly don’t do much. But none of that makes me a expert on world hunger, I only go by what I see, and I qualify that by remembering the lens that the guy is presenting it to me with.

I said I was blessed, and who knows what tomorrow will bring, so thats why I’m gonna do the best I can today! And not feel guilty about it. I know if I don’t give back it will make me a lesser person, but only so much I can do, and if my optimism, and love of life makes me seem less Catholic, then I dunno what to tell ya. But some are so invested in woe is me, and how bad things are, I don’t how they function.

Which goes back to the oringial post with the premise the world and especially America is a bad place, and we’re failing. I think that pretty much sums up his outlook. What ya need to do is do a search on the threads started by the OP, and see if you can find ONE with hope, or optimism about the world he lives in. It is always “well its bad here, despair there, and misery is just around the corner, we’re gonna starve etc” You’ll get the drift kinda quickly.

I enjoy comin on here and debating these issues, and who knows I might just convince a few of the lurkers out there to see the world in different way, as opposed to what some offer. They can read back over the posts and decide which view they want to share and go from there. CAF is kinda like the “fair and balanced” of the internet. LOL.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hate to follow myself, but I will. I am still not persuaded that all food price increases are related to the cost of oil, though it is certainly a very big factor. Some, I would think, are related to preferences and the economic ability of people to exercise those preferences.

I live in Stone County, Arkansas. Because of the poor, rocky soil and rugged terrain, there are virtually no row crops in the county. Most people here are farmers, but they raise chickens, cattle, sheep, goats, hay and timber.

I buy my hay locally, in the county. And the price of hay has doubled in the last year, and looks to double again this fall. What is the force driving up the price of hay? We aren’t making alcohol out of hay, and foreign consumers don’t eat it. It’s fuel and fertilizer that are driving up the price of hay.

The poultry industry is a gargantuan consumer of corn. Increased consumption of poultry undoubtedly cause the price of corn to be higher than it would be if people simply ate the corn and had no poultry. But if people can increasingly afford the poultry, due to increased availability of jobs that pay cash, it’s not necessarily a bad thing on the whole.

Actually, since cattle are also fed corn, increased poultry consumption results in a net decrease in corn used for fodder.

Obviously, though, if economic levels don’t rise with a fair degree of uniformity, it’s harmful to those who are still dependant on eating corn flour. Of course, if (and this is admittedly fantasy) poultry raisers were somehow able to utilize the incredible ability of insects like cockroaches to multiply on materials that are otherwise worthless, and could efficiently feed that to the poultry instead of corn, that could represent yet another intervening factor that could reduce the oil component of cost.

In fact, the thriftiness of poultry is one reason they are so profitable, and until now cheaper per pound than beef.

I doubt the “cockroach solution” is on Tyson Foods’ immediate plan list, but the principle is not to be discounted. (though the FDA would take a power of convincing) As I said before, it is perfectly possible to reduce the grain component (and thus the oil component) in the production of red meat, without any technological breakthroughs at all. Until recently, though, there has been little incentive to do it.

Actually, there has been a lot of incentives – including redesigned chicken houses for maximum growout, closing contract with remote rural growers (thus putting the latter out of business) and heavy mechanization.

Technological breakthroughs (like extending the “fescue line” northward), could have similar effects.

Fescue – that is a fungus associated with fescue – causes abortions in equines. Many farmers will not use it – not only because it hurts their horses, mules and donkeys, but also because it reduces the sale value of their farms.

Haying takes a lot of fuel. If it could be reduced, so could oil consumption.

Bingo!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well I dunno what they use to get those lead based toys to market, but I’m thinking any rice that makes it way here had a ox in the mix somewhere, and that is what we’re talking about-food.

The United States, thanks to Department of Agriculture subsidies, produces so much rice that the fair market value is lower than the cost of production. So I doubt we consume a lot of Chinese rice.

 

[BamaRider]

Vern points out-

The United States, thanks to Department of Agriculture subsidies, produces so much rice that the fair market value is lower than the cost of production. So I doubt we consume a lot of Chinese rice.

You mean I’m not gettin authentic Chinese rice when I go to my local China King Buffet?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern points out-

You mean I’m not gettin authentic Chinese rice when I go to my local China King Buffet?

Nope – and you don’t get authentic Thai, Korean, Viet Namese and so on, either. And you should breathe a prayer of thanks – I’ve** had **authentic Thai, Korean, Viet Namese and Chinese.