Food Price Riots Popping Up Around The World

[Doug50]

And we don’t know what the flow rate would be in these areas.

Is it your advice we should just sit here, stalled on the tracks, until a train comes along?

again, like Al, you miss the point. I’m reporting to you what I believe is going on with oil production into the future. And all I get is greef. It’s like: Oh now he’s promoting communisim, or he thinks we shouldn’t try to drill…etc. Like I’ve said when americans are sitting in gas lines again the arguments to not drill these areas, I believe, will fall on deaf ears. Because of the costs of drilling and producing these “unconventional” wells is so much higher you might not be waiting in gas lines for 5-7 years yet but you will be paying more per gallon.

let me ask your question with a question: Should we drill off shore hoping that it will lower YOUR fuel bills or should we pay more now and give society at time frame to adapt to the new lifestyle (as Birol alluded to) [or] husband those reserves for you kids and grandkids?

 

[vern_humphrey]

again, like Al, you miss the point. I’m reporting to you what I believe is going on with oil production into the future.

No, I get the point. In case you missed it, there are three points:

1. Energy prices are soaring, and that is affecting the world economy.
2. We have been blocked from taking action to ameliorate this problem for decades.
3. We do not know what resources and reserves we have – and we have been blocked from looking for them.

And all I get is greef. It’s like: Oh now he’s promoting communisim, or he thinks we shouldn’t try to drill…etc.

Ah, I see your problem – you have convinced yourself that other people are thinking or saying bad things about you.

Take my advice and address the issues – don’t make things up and accuse other people of saying or thinking them.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Which does nothing to change the fact that, in the past year, food prices have risen 25% overall. Can you find bargins? Sure. Can you cut back on “luxury items” (like microwave popcorn)? Of course. Does that change the fact that food is much more expensive now than it was a year ago, and is projected to get even more expensive? Nope. Is the reality that, as always, it is the poorest among us who suffer the most, changed by baking your own bread?

You figure it out.

Food has always been expensive. At least for our family.

All prices rise and fall. It’s cyclical. Each item, each commodity has a different set of cycles.

Being older, I can remember precious cycles.

When prices are low, take advantage of them and buy more and put it away for later. When prices are high, defer and economize.

The present high prices are not unique.

[The bologna with Congress manipulating food prices by mandating ethanol … at the request of the lobbyists from Archer Daniels Midland … check it out … may not be totally unique either … Congress always manipulates things. At one time, the marginal tax rate was up to 90% … and at other times, there were price controls on most things that led to all sorts of shortages.]

When I was a kid, we didn’t buy liquid milk; we bought powdered milk and mixed it ourselves. Ditto … with margarine … bought the stuff in a plastic bag and kneaded it to mix the yellow dye.

Every fall, we put up (canned) tomatoes, peaches, jellies and jams, squash … in those Ball jars. And, when we had our family, my wife and I did the same things … although we had the advantage of having a freezer and bought in bulk and froze a lot of food.

Made our own yogurt.

We NEVER bought soda when I was a kid. And we ate out only once a year, on my parents’ anniversary. Take out pizza was a major event, not a routine. My folks rarely bought wine or beer or liquor.

Sorry. Food has always been expensive … at least for us … and our family always had to scrimp and save and find economies. And we took pride in finding ways to stretch our limited dollars.

Some folks actually buy a side of beef or a half side. Some folks go hunting … it’s not for fun or sport … it’s to bring home a hundred pounds of meat.

Food prices rise and fall.

If the present pricing is a shock, well …welcome to the real world.

P.S. When I was a kid and in college, the Volkswagen Beetle was a major marketing success. Why? Because of its fuel economy … and gasoline was really cheap in those days.

I can recall that the engineering professors drove Beetles and the other professors drove slushomatic big cars. Because the engineering guys appreciated fuel economy and mechanical efficiency.

My first car was a VW … although it was a Karmann Ghia … the sporty car version … although it didn’t fool anyone; still had that little 1500 cc engine … it got up to 40 miles per gallon and I nursed that car along for more than 20 years. Bought it in April 1967 … to save money, I bought it by mail and arranged for it to be imported and cleared it through Customs myself.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I’m all aware of buracracy in government. The larger the instutution the more that comes about;even in large companies. But who would you rather have owning and having the final say on how military operations get implimente, the US government/Pentagon or a Wall Street Corporation? Roadways: should we do away with all government run highways so that all of the operations are sold to corporations who charge a toll to maintain and build them?

The first highways in the United States were toll roads. They were designed, built, financed and operated by a quasi-public corporation that sold bonds and charged a toll … a turnpike is a barrier that gets moved to allow the vehicle to move forward.

Prior to the toll highways, there were canals. Privately built and operated. And then there were the railroads; privately built and operated.

The business of state governments selling existing highways is theft … in my opinion. The roads already belong to either a corporation that sold bonds to build the highway originally OR they are Interstate Highways that the states built with Federal taxpayer/ gasoline tax money (90% Fed; 10% state).

But the original toll roads were new construction by the corporation that financed, built and operated them.

Pennsylvania Turnpike might have been the first. The Garden State Parkway was a classic case … state of NJ tried for decades and failed to build it. Except for two or three very short segments. So, an entity was established, it sold bonds, and built all 183 miles of it within two years. It was originally two lanes in each direction. Demand was so high that it was widened repeatedly until some parts were as much as six or seven lanes in each direction (the “dual-dual” section). All of it paid for with tolls. Now the governor of NJ is “stealing” the highway in my opinion ] and reselling it.

 

[Al_Masetti]

You are dealing with someone who, I believe, just likes to be confrontational. If I say the government is better at things like running NASA or a military Al has to find some strawman angle to attack it…as if military action should truned over to private industry??? I doubt he actually believes that but he can’t let such a statement, at least from me, in some way go unchallenged.

Actually, there are companies now, FINALLY, that will launch a satellite for you.

And please, please, please, I have made this request before ] … do not twist my words.

I never said that military action should be turned over to private industry … contracted out. I did say that the military bureaucracy do a poor job of specifying and selecting weapons.

If you would like to challenge me, please go for it.

It’s not a strawman; it’s real, by the way.

Just yesterday, Secretary of Defense Gates publicly beat up the Air Force for not providing the UAVs (drones) he ordered them to provide.

Please don’t twist my words.

Your turn.

 

[Al_Masetti]

And all that is irrelevant until we know how much oil is there. Your 6000 barrel a day well might not break even. But a 12,000 barrel a day well would.

The point is, “do nothing” is not a viable option. There are things we can do – we would be better off if we had started doing them 30 or 40 years ago, but perhaps it’s not too late.

Vern makes an extremely valid point … “do nothing” is not a viable option.

And that is exactly what we have been doing for decades and decades.

 

[Doug50]

No, I get the point. In case you missed it, there are three points:

1. Energy prices are soaring, and that is affecting the world economy.
2. We have been blocked from taking action to ameliorate this problem for decades.
3. We do not know what resources and reserves we have – and we have been blocked from looking for them.

Ah, I see your problem – you have convinced yourself that other people are thinking or saying bad things about you.

Take my advice and address the issues – don’t make things up and accuse other people of saying or thinking them.

If you hadn’t noticed I got thick skin.

to point:
1 get use to it because that is the era Birol was on about. Modern economies are built on the assumption of that cheap oil will last forever.

1. When you have a world using 31 billion barrels every year and economic demand for the stuff is increasing…exponetially, ameliorating this…problem is going to take a lot more than drilling off the coasts or ANWAR. The estimated Brazilian 33 billion field is one year’s worth of production to the world.

and 3. Although you can’t put exact figures on what might be in these places it isn’t like shooting in the dark either. Nobody drills blind anymore…and don’t forget we have new technology that can get you a ballpark number eventhough you still have to drill to prove up the geology…from experience geology doesn’t always workout.

ANWAR There is a 95% probability of being able to technically recover 4.254 billion barrels of oil, and a 5% probability of recovering 11.8 billion barrels of oil.

The US uses 7 billion barrels per year. So from just looking at ANWAR it buys you a one year’s worth of supply to the US.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If you hadn’t noticed I got thick skin.

Glad you told me – the whining had convinced me otherwise.

to point:
1 get use to it because that is the era Birol was on about. Modern economies are built on the assumption of that cheap oil will last forever.

And this is how we constructively address that point? Just make a negative comment and drive on?

1. When you have a world using 31 billion barrels every year and economic demand for the stuff is increasing…exponetially, ameliorating this…problem is going to take a lot more than drilling off the coasts or ANWAR. The estimated Brazilian 33 billion field is one year’s worth of production to the world.

So you advise doing nothing?

and 3. Although you can’t put exact figures on what might be in these places it isn’t like shooting in the dark either. Nobody drills blind anymore…and don’t forget we have new technology that can get you a ballpark number eventhough you still have to drill to prove up the geology…from experience geology doesn’t always workout.

But we aren’t using that technology – because no matter what we find, we can’t drill.

ANWAR There is a 95% probability of being able to technically recover 4.254 billion barrels of oil, and a 5% probability of recovering 11.8 billion barrels of oil.

The US uses 7 billion barrels per year. So from just looking at ANWAR it buys you a one year’s worth of supply to the US.

But upon what are those figures based? We are not allowed to re-explore the ANWAR with modern technology.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Apparently some states do actually have some rules regarding disposal of broken CFLs.

libertypundit.com/2008/02/27/solutions-often-worse-than-the-problem/

My sense of humor / tongue in cheekness might actually be closer to the truth than even I suspected.

We are doomed … even when I joke around, I’m being factual.

 

[Michaeljc4]

I had forgotten how much love there is on these Catholic Answer Forums. Everyone is so nice to each other.

Not.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Worth reading:

World Hunger: A Challenge for All: Development and Solidarity Pope John Paul II

 

[Al_Masetti]

The role of government … bureaucracy and all that …

Editorial in today’s NY Post:

nypost.com/seven/04232008/postopinion/editorials/us_air_farce_107746.htm

Getting away from “Food Price Riots Popping Up Around the World” … but in a sense, it is our illustrious government’s mandates for ethanol and subsidizing and tariffing ethanol … that is at the root of the problem as well as the government’s refusal to develop established energy sources (oil, coal, gas, nuclear) that is responsible for the current food shortages.

When you get the legislature and the bureaucracy working together to thwart legitimate needs (whether military or food), then there is big trouble.

 

[Doug50]

Glad you told me – the whining had convinced me otherwise.

And this is how we constructively address that point? Just make a negative comment and drive on?

So you advise doing nothing?

But we aren’t using that technology – because no matter what we find, we can’t drill.

But upon what are those figures based? We are not allowed to re-explore the ANWAR with modern technology.

Look it up yourself.

 

[Doug50]

I had forgotten how much love there is on these Catholic Answer Forums. Everyone is so nice to each other.

Not.

Well I have to admit there’s more than I’ve seen on other boards. too often boards are like talk radio. It’s not about information but confrontation.

 

[Doug50]

BTW, Vern, with the US having on a few % of the worlds oil reserves do you want to exploit those now or husband them for future generations?

 

[Michaeljc4]

Just heard on the news tonight that Costco, Sam’s Club, and BJs Wholesale Club are having to put rules into place to stop people from hoarding rice (buying hundreds of pounds)…which has increased in price 130% in one year. And this is in America.

From today’s Christian Science Monitor:

Food for America’s famished
With prices skyrocketing for staples such as bread, the poor need more food donations.
from the April 22, 2008 edition

Americans are a generous sort but not as much in a weak economy with food prices climbing more than 5 percent a year. Donations to private food banks are off 9 by percent. A CNN poll finds nearly 1 in 3 people already cutting back on food. Hunger, once again, is rising in America.

Some food banks and pantries have closed their doors for lack of supplies and because of higher prices for such staples as macaroni and cheese (up 86 percent a carton). Inflation for some basics such as milk, eggs, and bread have risen by double digits over the past year.

Worldwide, food price inflation is being driven by government subsidies for corn ethanol, higher fuel costs to transport food, and more meat eaters who command more farmland for feed grain. And because food costs usually take up more of a poor family’s budget, higher prices usually force them to eat less. While the average American family spends about 7 percent of its income on food at home, those at or below the poverty line spend as much as one-third.

Many poor nations have seen food riots and rising instability over “ag-flation” (see related opinion piece on Haiti). The food crisis in the United States has yet to explode into public view – although it’s visible in longer lines at soup kitchens and other charities. “Our food bank members across the country have reported tremendous increases in the number of people seeking help to feed their families in the past several months,” says Vicki Escarra, head of America’s Second Harvest.

The Food Bank for New York City says the crisis is the worst in 25 years, with donations off by half. One reason is that more food is imported. Foreign producers are not as inclined to give to the needy as US companies do and don’t have a tax incentive to do so.

And the federal government’s donations of food to these groups is down more than 75 percent in the past four years as it is buying less surplus food from farmers.

Beyond receiving private food charity, more of America’s poor are enrolling for government food stamps. A record 28 million are expected to receive benefits in the next few months. Still, the program doesn’t quickly index benefits to food inflation, and doesn’t index certain eligibility requirements. This forces many recipients to absorb the rapid price hikes of recent months. That can mean cutting back on meals well before the end of the month and a drop in nutrition for poor children.

Fixes to the food stamp program as well as more federal donations to food banks are included in a major farm bill currently stalled in Congress. The political deadlock is over farmer subsidies, not the nutrition programs such as food stamps. And there’s a chance that lawmakers may simply extend all current programs for another year.

That would leave many more stomachs growling with hunger.

If Congress can’t soon pass a farm bill that President Bush will sign, then it should pass the nutrition programs separately. Tying such food assistance to farmer subsidies may help create a coalition between rural and urban lawmakers, but such linkage shouldn’t come at the expense of the poor.

More than 1 in 10 Americans live with what the Census Bureau calls “food insecurity” – they’re forced to skip meals. Now is not the time for other Americans to skip out on their usual generosity.

 

[Doug50]

Speculators Worsening World Food Crisis?
Biofuels and droughts can’t fully explain the recent shortages—hedge funds and small investors bear some responsibility for global hunger
businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2008/gb20080423_366709.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

 

[ribozyme]

Speculators Worsening World Food Crisis?
Biofuels and droughts can’t fully explain the recent shortages—hedge funds and small investors bear some responsibility for global hunger
businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2008/gb20080423_366709.htm?campaign_id=rss_daily

I now hate you George Soros.

 

[rlg94086]

I now hate you George Soros.

Are you sure? On your profile, he is still “your hero” and “god.”

 

[ribozyme]

Are you sure? On your profile, he is still “your hero” and “god.”

I still hero worship him… it is perfectly normal. I do not pray to him as Catholics do to God, nor do I venerate him as with Mary. Idolizing people is perfectly normal and I am not as fervent in my “veneration” as most people.

I suspect that Soros is taking long positions on commodities now probably with leverage and worth billions. (So he is contributing to the commodities bubble.) He went out of retirement and made about 2 billion this year managing a hedge fund.