Food Price Riots Popping Up Around The World

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And raising taxes on the oil industry will have the same effect on them. The “windfall profits tax” of the '70s virtually shut off domestic oil – there are tens of thousands of small wells that used to be profitable, but which are capped off.

It seems we have people in Congress who think oil companies are a different species – that they have to produce gasoline for us, no matter what. With that warped view, Congress will do to the American oil industry what it has already done to the American shipping industry.
Well, it ought to be fair, anyway. Congressmen should pay the exact same “windfall profits” tax on their government perks and campaign contributions. A huge tax on one junket, with staff, to Europe or the watering places of the Far East or a big contribution from someone expecting favors in return, ought to cure a lot of things.
 
Well, it ought to be fair, anyway. Congressmen should pay the exact same “windfall profits” tax on their government perks and campaign contributions. A huge tax on one junket, with staff, to Europe or the watering places of the Far East or a big contribution from someone expecting favors in return, ought to cure a lot of things.
HERBIVORE’S SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION:

“No man shall pay more in taxes than his Congressman.”
 
What state are you in Doug? Just curious. In my state (Mo) there are incredibly rich areas (Mo, Miss valleys, No. Mo, W. Mo) where every square inch is still farmed, and other areas (pretty much the rest of it) where farming stopped many years ago and converted to cattle or timber. I would just be interested to know.

To what you said, and with which I would agree, I might add that the economics of agriculture are nearly impossible if you include the cost of land.
I live in norht central Texas. And get this Dallasites with money who want their own private hunting and recreational places are driving up land values to four and maybe 5 thousand dollars an acre. So what’s happening is that as farms go to inheritance the farm either gets split up because many can’t afford to buy out the others or they sell the family farm.
 
I live in norht central Texas. And get this Dallasites with money who want their own private hunting and recreational places are driving up land values to four and maybe 5 thousand dollars an acre. So what’s happening is that as farms go to inheritance the farm either gets split up because many can’t afford to buy out the others or they sell the family farm.
We’re not in that price range in most places around here, but we’re getting there fast. And we don’t even have a Dallas to contend with. With two exceptions around here anyway, there is no way to make a living on the land if you factor in the cost of the land.
 
60% of that volume goes to transportation…and ethanol is going to replace that volume?
Ethanol certainly won’t replace all of that volume, but it can help. Given a choice, would you rather be more dependent on foreign imports or less dependent?

There is much waste of electricity in the USA and much of the world. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why we need street lights burning bright all night long. The only light I’ve got outside my place right now is a full moon! 🙂
 
Ethanol certainly won’t replace all of that volume, but it can help. Given a choice, would you rather be more dependent on foreign imports or less dependent?

There is much waste of electricity in the USA and much of the world. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why we need street lights burning bright all night long. The only light I’ve got outside my place right now is a full moon! 🙂
The problem with ethanol is its EROEI, Energy Return On Energy Invested.

hypothetically, assume a farmer plants corn and processes all the ethanol himself to run his equipment to plant the crop for next season and so on. At a ration of 1.1 to 1 for every 100 gallons of ethanol used in planting the crop the farmer would have 1 gallon left over to sell to market.

That’s what you have with ethanol within the totla energy mix. Petroleum is used for pesticides and Nitorgen fertalizers in addition to the deseal fuel to work the fields and then transport the all the stuff to mill/pant and eventually to the market.
usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-07-10-ethanol-study_x.htm

I hate street lights too. that’s one reason I live on a farm. I read that if motorists would buy cars that got 1 mile per gal better it’d reduce the US’s gas demand by 300,000 barrels per day. I’d have to look that up to verify it though.
 
And raising taxes on the oil industry will have the same effect on them. The “windfall profits tax” of the '70s virtually shut off domestic oil – there are tens of thousands of small wells that used to be profitable, but which are capped off.

It seems we have people in Congress who think oil companies are a different species – that they have to produce gasoline for us, no matter what. With that warped view, Congress will do to the American oil industry what it has already done to the American shipping industry.
In addition to hurting oil companies, the windfall profits tax also put many independent contractors out of business. And those small businesses never came back. And we are suffering from the absence of their services.
 
In addition to hurting oil companies, the windfall profits tax also put many independent contractors out of business. And those small businesses never came back. And we are suffering from the absence of their services.
Amen – and there are those in Congress who, having seriously wounded the industry that we so vitally need, are proposing to administer the coup de grace.
 
The problem with ethanol is its EROEI, Energy Return On Energy Invested.

hypothetically, assume a farmer plants corn and processes all the ethanol himself to run his equipment to plant the crop for next season and so on. At a ration of 1.1 to 1 for every 100 gallons of ethanol used in planting the crop the farmer would have 1 gallon left over to sell to market.

That’s what you have with ethanol within the totla energy mix. Petroleum is used for pesticides and Nitorgen fertalizers in addition to the deseal fuel to work the fields and then transport the all the stuff to mill/pant and eventually to the market.
usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-07-10-ethanol-study_x.htm

I hate street lights too. that’s one reason I live on a farm. I read that if motorists would buy cars that got 1 mile per gal better it’d reduce the US’s gas demand by 300,000 barrels per day. I’d have to look that up to verify it though.
Doug, the problem is that you need to decide which rocket scientist you’re going to believe. There are other researchers that indicate that corn ethanol does have a positive EROEI. See reference #42 at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#cite_note-41 for a positive spin report on corn ethanol and reference 43 & 44 for a negative spin. I honestly believe the USDA is more likely to be an independent neutral source of information than the other parties. I know enough about the (name removed by moderator)ut costs of corn. My family has farmed corn for 80 years or so, though I’m currently making my “fortune” farming alfalfa hay. 😉
 
The generalizations are just about as offensive as the humor. Causes of food shortages are many (examples have been given) and have often have little to do with using oxen or having dictators.

This is a global economy and decisions taken in one corner of the globe have widespread repercussions. Waste, thoughtless spending habits, overuse of limited resources, short-sighted economic policies locally and/or globally all contribute to people not having enough to eat. Even subsidizing crops here can impact world food prices. So yes - it is everybody’s problem and hardly a laughing matter.

Hunger and starvation can lead to war and social upheaval which could threaten our security. If at least for that reason, we should be concerned when people take to the streets over food prices. On second thoughts maybe we can just wait to brand them terrorists when they resort to violence…
that’s very true seekerz! thanks very much for sharing!
 
that’s what happend to me so today I just run cattle.
5/1 ratios of water to ethanol are for plant processes and don’t include any irrigation water used in growing corn swhydro.arizona.edu/archive/V6_N5/feature4.pdf
the big problem with ethanol to petorleum is the EROEI (video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8980485670494666459)

At 86 million barrels of oil per day produced/consumed by the world here’s what that looks like: oildepletiondebate.blogspot.com/2008/02/at-1000-barrels-of-oil-per-second.html If all Olympic pool equivalents of oil used in one year were lined up end to end, the pool would be 82 feet wide x 6.5 feet deep x 63,488 miles long."
60% of that volume goes to transportation…and ethanol is going to replace that volume?
You know, when my mother was in agriculture, the only thing she ever made money off of was off of livestock. And she’s not in agriculture anymore. I guess it’s something to be glad of.
 
Doug, the problem is that you need to decide which rocket scientist you’re going to believe. There are other researchers that indicate that corn ethanol does have a positive EROEI. See reference #42 at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol#cite_note-41 for a positive spin report on corn ethanol and reference 43 & 44 for a negative spin. I honestly believe the USDA is more likely to be an independent neutral source of information than the other parties. I know enough about the (name removed by moderator)ut costs of corn. My family has farmed corn for 80 years or so, though I’m currently making my “fortune” farming alfalfa hay. 😉
it a 2002 report and they estimated energy return at 1.34 to 1. Originally, oil was 100 to 1 but I’ve read it’s down to 20-30 to 1 today. I just can’t see ethanol filling the gap.

You guys ready for this. I’m reading a UBS report predicting oil prices, and demand and supply estimates to 2015.

The report says non-OPEC oil will peak in 2010 and global oil production will peak at 91.7 mil bbl/day in 2012. Except for a slight pull back in 2010 to $116 prices every year climb to $200/bbl by 2015. By 2012 the price will average $155/bbl. But for a more urgent scarcity pricing oil from 2008 to 2012 climbs $133 to 155 to 208 to 314 to $528/barrel in 2012
UBS Now Sees Oil Marching to $156 Yearly Average by 2012
rigzone.com/NEWS/article.asp?a_id=61952
 
it a 2002 report and they estimated energy return at 1.34 to 1. Originally, oil was 100 to 1 but I’ve read it’s down to 20-30 to 1 today. I just can’t see ethanol filling the gap.

You guys ready for this. I’m reading a UBS report predicting oil prices, and demand and supply estimates to 2015.

The report says non-OPEC oil will peak in 2010 and global oil production will peak at 91.7 mil bbl/day in 2012. Except for a slight pull back in 2010 to $116 prices every year climb to $200/bbl by 2015. By 2012 the price will average $155/bbl. But for a more urgent scarcity pricing oil from 2008 to 2012 climbs $133 to 155 to 208 to 314 to $528/barrel in 2012
UBS Now Sees Oil Marching to $156 Yearly Average by 2012
rigzone.com/NEWS/article.asp?a_id=61952
I know that on my grandfather’s farm (he’s the only one left) which had oil recently found on, the crude oil was going for $92 a barrel. Of course, that’s nothing compared to what would happen in 2002. I still doubt he’d make a profit. But he’s never going to leave his home in western Kansas, and he’s never going to stop doing what he loves.Farming’s kind of a romantic notion, anyway.
 
If ethanol production is positive in terms of “energy return on energy invested”, then there should be absolutely no need for any subsidies or import tariff protection.

If ethanol production is that good, then it should flourish and prosper all by itself.

But it doesn’t.

Folks should take another look at methanol.

www.energyvictory.net

Methanol and ethanol are totally different. They both have the -OH radicals common to all alcohols (which is actually a defined term). But their chemical and physical properties are different and they are produced by different processes.
 
Sorry to be a space hog, but this just came in.

“Pain at the Pump”

“Drill here. Drill now. Pay less”

americansolutions.com/

I couldn’t get the link, but if you mouse around it was there in the upper right corner.
 
Sorry to be a space hog, but this just came in.

“Pain at the Pump”

“Drill here. Drill now. Pay less”

americansolutions.com/

I couldn’t get the link, but if you mouse around it was there in the upper right corner.
right click over link, select copy short cut, then paste, Al

Those areas are going to get drilled sooner or later, Al…but it won’t make much of a difference. Cheap gasoline/oil is over. Sorry. I know you don’t want to believe that but for myself I’m more sure of it every week. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think so. If as UBS believes oil will peak in 2012 there isn’t enough time to develope the alternatives and prevent a [dramatic] economic hardship to the average person.
 
right click over link, select copy short cut, then paste, Al

Those areas are going to get drilled sooner or later, Al…but it won’t make much of a difference. Cheap gasoline/oil is over. Sorry. I know you don’t want to believe that but for myself I’m more sure of it every week. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think so. If as UBS believes oil will peak in 2012 there isn’t enough time to develope the alternatives and prevent a [dramatic] economic hardship to the average person.
Cheap gasoline was over years ago. It’s now a question of cost vs the value of a particular currency. Preventing exploration eight, ten, fifteen years ago, was a huge mistake. Now, inflating the currency has turned out to be a huge mistake. We are now undergoing a dramatic economic hardship to the average person, as you say. We’ll likely go through another if we keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

I’m dubious about the predictions of peak oil, as I was back in the 1970s. Nobody really knows what even the reserves are in the South China Sea, as just one example. They just know they’re there. Chinese estimates are larger than those of Saudi Arabia. Others estimate much less. But until serious exploration is undertaken there and elsewhere, oil production is probably already at its peak.
 
Cheap gasoline was over years ago. It’s now a question of cost vs the value of a particular currency. Preventing exploration eight, ten, fifteen years ago, was a huge mistake. Now, inflating the currency has turned out to be a huge mistake. We are now undergoing a dramatic economic hardship to the average person, as you say. We’ll likely go through another if we keep making the same mistakes over and over again…
And one big mistake is hiding from the issue of human overpopulation. 6.6 billion and growing, while fossil fuels decline – a recipe for the great dieoff!
 
And one big mistake is hiding from the issue of human overpopulation. 6.6 billion and growing, while fossil fuels decline – a recipe for the great dieoff!
The only good thing about a potential die-off is that it might force people to take overpopulation seriously and it might force us to be more conscientious about our carrying capacity.
 
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