FOR ALL THE ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE PEOPLE again

[BrianH]

Brian from your post if looks like you believe in once save ALWAYS saved so please just explain why you do and under what base . And may I ask why you are ALWAYS talking some one being selfish

The original question deals with why people who believe in OSAS do not just kill themselves. I stated that one reason that people who believe in OSAS do not kill themselves is because it is selfish. It would seem to answer your original question for almost everyone. The next area would be answered by pointing out the lack of scriptural or traditional support for harming oneself once salvation is achieved.
Thank you for your reply.
I am only interested in talking about the topic of the post. Why people who believe in OSAS do not just kill themselves.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I agree with you reteeks. If I may add a question of my own: Why has such a OP as that generate 50 responses? I think a lot of us have too much time on our hands. (Of course, I guess I’m indicting myself as well, since I’ve now posted on this thread too. )

P.S. Hmm, I wonder how many responses I could get with a “All Protestants go to hell” thread. :ehh: Fascinating.

Unless it was closed down almost at once - not at all a certainty - such a thread would probably extend a good way into three figures. Certain Catholics seem to think non-Catholics are good for nothing but target-practice (as in “Planet of the Apes”).​

 

[Bill_Pick]

The topic of eternal security is between Catholics and non-cathloic. The non-cathloic position is that once a person is saved, he is always saved regardless of how he lives his life.and this I do not believe

 

[Bill_Pick]

Unless it was closed down almost at once - not at all a certainty - such a thread would probably extend a good way into three figures. Certain Catholics seem to think non-Catholics are good for nothing but target-practice (as in “Planet of the Apes”).​

Certain Catholics seem to think non-Catholics are good for nothing but target-practice (as in “Planet of the Apes”).
Why are you getting so rude and what Cathloic are you talking about. most of my familey are non-cathloic and I do not care for your remarks.thank you and have a good night

 

[BrianH]

The topic of eternal security is between Catholics and non-cathloic. The non-cathloic position is that once a person is saved, he is always saved regardless of how he lives his life.and this I do not believe

Sure although as certainly you know from your time on this board not all Protestants believe that.
But back to the OP, would you agree we have answered why OSAS do not just kills themselves due to it being a selfish act and the lack of scriptural or traditional mandate to do so. If not, which part would you like to explore further?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Sure although as certainly you know from your time on this board not all Protestants believe that.
But back to the OP, would you agree we have answered why OSAS do not just kills themselves due to it being a selfish act and the lack of scriptural or traditional mandate to do so. If not, which part would you like to explore further?

The key word in this issue is ‘continue.’ We must continue in the grace of God. We can lose our inheritance of eternal life if we walk away from God in the future. This is evident in many Bible passages. To accept the you or the theory of “once saved always saved” is to deny biblical teaching! The point is that salvation is not only a past event or only a future event. It is a past, present, and future event. To be overconfident is to be unbiblical. Brian Stop and look at the word ALWAYS in your dictionary and get back to me. I will be watching some TV so we can talk Sunday or Monday

 

[BrianH]

The key word in this issue is ‘continue.’ We must continue in the grace of God. We can lose our inheritance of eternal life if we walk away from God in the future. This is evident in many Bible passages. To accept the you or the theory of “once saved always saved” is to deny biblical teaching! The point is that salvation is not only a past event or only a future event. It is a past, present, and future event. To be overconfident is to be unbiblical. Brian Stop and look at the word ALWAYS in your dictionary and get back to me. I will be watching some TV so we can talk Sunday or Monday

I think the case for the feelings of the people you leave behind and the lack of scriptural or traditional support are ample reasons for OSAS to not think they can or should kill themselves once they have been saved (whether one disagrees with their theology or not).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Certain Catholics seem to think non-Catholics are good for nothing but target-practice (as in “Planet of the Apes”).
Why are you getting so rude and what Cathloic are you talking about. most of my familey are non-cathloic and I do not care for your remarks

So what ? Maybe I don’t care for your remarks. Far more to the point, maybe a lot of Protestants don’t. The cure is in your own hands - stop insulting what a lot of Protestants value: you lot are for ever whining when anyone says even a word against your own poxy religion. Maybe - incredible as it may seem - non-Catholics have their convictions, which they hold dear, & just possibly they don’t appreciate having them defecated on by RCs Or is not being a jerk to anyone not an RC too much to ask ? ​

thank you and have a good night

Catholics who ask the same old questions again…and again…again…and again…again…and again…again…and again…, of course: even when they’ve been answered again & again. That’s what. It’s pretty rude to do that. Is insulting what Protestants value* not* rude ? So don’t do to others what you don’t like having done to you.​

 

[kalt]

So what ? Maybe I don’t care for your remarks. Far more to the point, maybe a lot of Protestants don’t. The cure is in your own hands - stop insulting what a lot of Protestants value: you lot are for ever whining when anyone says even a word against your own poxy religion. Maybe - incredible as it may seem - non-Catholics have their convictions, which they hold dear, & just possibly they don’t appreciate having them defecated on by RCs Or is not being a jerk to anyone not an RC too much to ask ? ​

Catholics who ask the same old questions again…and again…again…and again…again…and again…again…and again…, of course: even when they’ve been answered again & again. That’s what. It’s pretty rude to do that. Is insulting what Protestants value* not* rude ? So don’t do to others what you don’t like having done to you.​

I’ll ask once again. (And I’m ignoring your rude, anti-Catholic remarks )

We know that people who believe in OSAS don’t believe that they have a license to sin, anymore than Catholics believe that they have a license to sin becuase they can be forgiven in sacramental Confession.

So that argument is put to rest.

The question most people have about OSAS is, what happens when a OSAS person commits a very serious sin–like murder–or walks away from Christ?

If the person is OS and AS, does a OSAS person who dies an unrepentant murderer go to Heaven? Does a OSAS person who dies after walking away from his faith go to Heaven?

It’s a very simple, straight forward question, but no one will answer it.

 

[Howie01]

kalt:

The question most people have about OSAS is, what happens when a OSAS person commits a very serious sin–like murder–or walks away from Christ?

If the person is OS and AS, does a OSAS person who dies an unrepentant murderer go to Heaven? Does a OSAS person who dies after walking away from his faith go to Heaven?

It’s a very simple, straight forward question, but no one will answer it.

As worded, your question answers itself.

One who is OSAS, will not die unrepentant by reason of being OSAS, and for the same reason, that one will never walk away from his faith, and least, not fully nor finally (Lk 22:31-32). :tiphat:

 

[Filius99993]

One who is OSAS, will not die unrepentant by reason of being OSAS, and for the same reason, that one will never walk away from his faith, and least, neither fully nor finally.

…I’ve seen plenty of OSAS teenagers turn away from Christ and become atheists. They decide that they don’t have time for God, and once the convenience of calling themselves a “believer” is over, they forget God, and go on their way.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

…I’ve seen plenty of OSAS teenagers turn away from Christ and become atheists. They decide that they don’t have time for God, and once the convenience of calling themselves a “believer” is over, they forget God, and go on their way.

I know some adults like that too…

 

[Bill_Pick]

I think the case for the feelings of the people you leave behind and the lack of scriptural or traditional support are ample reasons for OSAS to not think they can or should kill themselves once they have been saved (whether one disagrees with their theology or not).

BrianH I did look it up in the dictionary. OSAS always from the dictionary ( always in the dictionary ==for all times===-forever once again you keep talking about people that we leave behind, they have no mother or father no brothers or sisters they just got them self all the rest are gone

 

[BrianH]

BrianH I did look it up in the dictionary. OSAS always from the dictionary ( always in the dictionary ==for all times===-forever once again you keep talking about people that we leave behind, they have no mother or father no brothers or sisters they just got them self all the rest are gone

And that is the part I also answered by pointing out that there is no sciptural or traditional support for doing this. I do think however that the vast majority of people fall into the original category of having someone (family or friends). For those who do not, the lack of scriptural or traditional mandate to do so should suffice.
Thank you for your reply.

 

[RevDrNorth]

…I’ve seen plenty of OSAS teenagers turn away from Christ and become atheists. They decide that they don’t have time for God, and once the convenience of calling themselves a “believer” is over, they forget God, and go on their way.

Precisely… One possible answer is that they were never saved to begin with. When someone is saved they will want to grow more and more Christlike every day. They may stumble along the way but there path is towards God not away.

OSAS is NEVER license. It is only so in the minds of those who are critics. From the point of view of an OSAS person, scripture supports OSAS as well as the fact that the person will be moving towards becoming more and more like his/her savior. Some grow more than others (some never get past the point of being immature Christians).

Just because someone responds to the general Gospel call does NOT mean that they have truly become saved. The effectual call does not fail. Remember scripture, “many are called but few are chosen”.

 

[Howie01]

Filius99993:

…I’ve seen plenty of OSAS teenagers turn away from Christ and become atheists. They decide that they don’t have time for God, and once the convenience of calling themselves a “believer” is over, they forget God, and go on their way.

I’ve seen that as well.

I’ve also seen many of those who walk away “repent” (Gk metanoeō), literally, “change of mind.”

Simply seeing a thing doesn’t negate another thing.

Two types of OSAS exist: 1) Antinomian OSAS, and 2) Calvinist OSAS, called by Calvinists “eternal security” of the believer.

The Antinomian says a one-time profession of faith is sufficient to save.

The Calvinist says God elects for Himself a people whom He gives to His Son for safekeeping.

Therefore, in the scenario you present, the Antinomian says anyone who professes faith, and then rejects Christ and turns to atheism, will be saved by virtue of his initial profession of faith.

The Calvinist says being one of God’s elect does not mean perfection. God’s elect will sin, and some will sin grievously, even to the point of denying God, but because it is God who saves the elect, and not the elect who save themselves, the elect will not fully, nor finally fall from the faith.

 

[kalt]

As worded, your question answers itself.

One who is OSAS, will not die unrepentant by reason of being OSAS, and for the same reason, that one will never walk away from his faith, and least, not fully nor finally (Lk 22:31-32). :tiphat:

What about free will? Does free will end when someone is born again? Is it impossible for someone who is OSAS to die unrepentant, really? What if a murdered is killed by the police as he is commiting the murder? We’ve seen that happen in hold-ups and stand-offs. What if that were a OSAS person who died still angry or sick enough to die unrepentant?

I think the question is really about free will. If people have free will, how can they be sure that they won’t die unrepentant or won’t reject Christ?

Does the OSAS position deny free will? Does it say that God steps in and makes the person repentant?

 

[Howie01]

kalt:

What about free will? Does free will end when someone is born again?

What’s your definition of free-will.

kalt:

Is it impossible for someone who is OSAS to die unrepentant, really? What if a murdered is killed by the police as he is commiting the murder?

We’ve seen that happen in hold-ups and stand-offs. What if that were a OSAS person who died still angry or sick enough to die unrepentant?

There is more that I could say about my position concerning that; however, I think it would more effective to ask you to answer your question in light of the Catholic position on predestination to perseverance, a position you must believe de fide.

That position states, GOD, BY HIS ETERNAL RESOLVE OF WILL, HAS PREDETERMINED CERTAIN MEN TO ETERNAL BLESSEDNESS.

IOW, those predestined by God in that way cannot lose their salvation. They are OSAS.

Nevertheless, how would you answer your question in light of the Catholic position on predestination?

Again, here’s a portion of my earlier position:

…it is God who saves the elect, and not the elect who save themselves, the elect will not fully, nor finally fall from the faith.

kalt:

I think the question is really about free will.

That’s not your original question.

kalt:

If people have free will, how can they be sure that they won’t die unrepentant or won’t reject Christ?

ISTM you are somewhat confused. Who is the Savior? Christ, or people who have free will?

kalt:

Does the OSAS position deny free will? Does it say that God steps in and makes the person repentant?

Scripture says that God grants repentance to whom He will.

 

[kalt]

Precisely… One possible answer is that they were never saved to begin with. When someone is saved they will want to grow more and more Christlike every day. They may stumble along the way but there path is towards God not away.

OSAS is NEVER license. It is only so in the minds of those who are critics. From the point of view of an OSAS person, scripture supports OSAS as well as the fact that the person will be moving towards becoming more and more like his/her savior. Some grow more than others (some never get past the point of being immature Christians).

Just because someone responds to the general Gospel call does NOT mean that they have truly become saved. The effectual call does not fail. Remember scripture, “many are called but few are chosen”.

So how can anyone be sure that they are saved, once and for all, when many believe they are saved, but only a few are?

If I understand your position, lots of people believe they are saved, but when they commit serious sins, they (or others) realize that they aren’t really saved.

I understand, I think, what you’re saying about stumbling along the way. Catholics also believe that Christians commit sins. Catholics believe that our sins are forgiven by Christ in sacramental Confession. But we don’t believe that once you accept Christ, you are assured of salvation. We don’t believe that, because we believe that mortal sin seperates us from Christ.

Is it true that the OSAS person also believes that sin seperates him from Christ, and that after commiting sins, especially serious sins, he must be repentant and seek God’s forgiveness to “be right” with God again?

 

[kalt]

What’s your definition of free-will.

There is more that I could say about my position concerning that; however, I think it would more effective to ask you to answer your question in light of the Catholic position on predestination to perseverance, a position you must believe de fide.

That position states, GOD, BY HIS ETERNAL RESOLVE OF WILL, HAS PREDETERMINED CERTAIN MEN TO ETERNAL BLESSEDNESS.

IOW, those predestined by God in that way cannot lose their salvation. They are OSAS.

Nevertheless, how would you answer your question in light of the Catholic position on predestination?

Again, here’s a portion of my earlier position:

That’s not your original question.

ISTM you are somewhat confused. Who is the Savior? Christ, or people who have free will?

Scripture says that God grants repentance to whom He will.

God gave people free will. With that free will, they are always free to accept or reject God.

It’s not my original question, but it’s the point that comes up when trying to sort through the OSAS position. It seems that OSAS theory denies a person’s free will.

Christ is the savior. And people are free, always, to accpet or reject the offer. There’s nothing in the Bible that says that once someone accepts Jesus he loses his ability to reject the offer. In fact, the Bible says the opposite.

So, I’m still left wondering how anyone can know they are saved. The OSAS question, when you look at it carefully, is about whether a person has free will after being born again.