FOR ALL THE ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE PEOPLE again

[NDfan]

Do you not think that you can just confess your sins to God without any mediator? Do you think a Catholic priest instituted by Christ to forgive sin cannot in fact forgive? How do you, a Protestant have your sins forgiven?

By the blood of Christ period. The same as you. The Priest does not forgive us on his own. He only pronounces forgiveness on behalf of Christ. Do you actually believe the Priest alone can forgive sin? GOD is the only one that can actually forgive a persons transgressions. And the reason we have the assurance of forgiveness is because GOD sent Jesus to us to pay the final price which you already know.

And yes we can seek forgiveness from GOD without mediator because Christ taught us this in Matthew 6:12:

12 and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Notice the forgiven our debtors part and then read this in context with Matthew 6:14

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

How do you explain these passages? I’m asking honestly here with no malice intended at all.

 

[reteeks21]

Do you not think that you can just confess your sins to God without any mediator? Do you think a Catholic priest instituted by Christ to forgive sin cannot in fact forgive? How do you, a Protestant have your sins forgiven?

What does that have to do with anything I have said in regards to your comments? I don’t mind answering it, but at least tell us what that has to do with anything related to this topic.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hi Bill, can your priest come to visit you then? I know a lot would do this if they knew your condition. May the Lord Bless you in the next life.

I belong to a very loving Church,but most live 3or 4 blocks from the church and that will have them drive 80 miles a day or more. we just got a new priest so I will see what happens now.
I have been going to this church for 15 years B4 getting disable and 14 after ,I did have a person pick me up but the person has passed on. I do not have a ramp so thats a is a hard ship also.
I had to move in with my son who works at night he gets home at about 10am and I need him to carry me down the steps.
With the new priest thing will work out and I.m still praying, Thanks for your post and may Our Lord bless you.
PS< watch my spelling and grammar not good ,smile

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill I’m sorry brother. Do you request sick and shut in visits from the church?? I have to believe they would send a Deacon or someone to offer the sacrament of communion to you.

I will pray that this can change for you

GOD Bless you too.

Thank you ,and it will ,we are getting a new priest and two new Deacons

 

[BrianH]

But it wouldn’t matter anymore if you left everything behind! You will only feel joy according to the OSAS people! You don’t have to work at it here on earth like the Catholics do! Our salvation begins at birth with baptism!
What do you then think of St. Paul’s warnings about salvation? He tells the people “You too will be cut off.” That’s if they are not with kindness.
Osas is the most ridiculous thing in the non-Catholic world. To be so arrogant as to think you’ll go straight to heaven after you killed your neighbor is absurd.

It does not matter what I feel. Only a selfish person would think that way. I do not do things because it feels good for me. I think of others. That is not unusual. Most parents feel this way. It is not about me. It is about others.

 

[reteeks21]

It does not matter what I feel. Only a selfish person would think that way. I do not do things because it feels good for me. I think of others. That is not unusual. Most parents feel this way. It is not about me. It is about others.

The problem is that people who attack OSAS and say it’s crazy don’t, or refuse to hear it when we say that. They only want to think that we are just selfish people despite the fact that they act like they are asking genuine questions, but when you answer them it isn’t ever good enough for them. I think it’s because they aren’t seeking answers; they just want an arguement. (excuse me. some of them are. didn’t mean to make a blankt statement)

 

[kalt]

reteeks21:
Where do you get the notion that we think killing people is okay? Where do you get the notion that people who hold to OSAS believe we have a license to sin since we are saved? I have yet to meet one Protestant on here who seriously believes that. To continue to imply that we wouldn’t or shouldn’t care about killing ourselves because we would go to be with Jesus is absurd and disrespectful. We actually do love our families, believe it or not, and we kind of like the life God has given us here on earth! OSAS is not an excuse to waste life. It’s a motivation to live it and love God in the process because He gave it to us.

Why do threads like this, that state the same thing over and over regarding OSAS continue to pop up? Do you not have your answers already? Have you not shouted how absurd and how rediculous it is to you enough?

I think questions like this are asked, because the OSAS belief doesn’t seem to make sense. I’ve asked more than once, and no one seems to have an answer.

So I’ll ask you now.

If someone is OSAS, what happens if he does kill his neighbor? If he is assured of his salvation because he was born again (or whatever term is appropriate) he will definitely go to Heaven.

What do you say about that situation? If someone is saved and then kills his neighbor, how does it all work out?

In Catholicism, we don’t believe that we know we’re going to Heaven (by what it says about it in the Bible), We know that we can go astray. We know that anyone can turn his back on God. God gave us free will, and Baptism doesn’t take that free will away. Baptism doesn’t guarantee that a person would never commit mortal sins or turn away from God altogether. Though we do believe that Baptism is more than a symbolic gesture to mark that a person has come to a conclusion, we don’t believe that it takes away a person’s free will to turn from God.

We know that nothing unclean can enter Heaven. So how do those who believe in OSAS explain that a saved person can commit murder or otherwise turn away from God, and that that person will die in that state - unrepentant and seperated from God by his own free will, which is God-given?

We just don’t get it, and it seems that those who believe in OSAS avoid the question.

I’m not challenging your beliefs, I’m just trying to understand what the OSAS position really is. I know that no one here will change your mind, and that’s not my goal. My goal is to understand how this OSAS works in a situation like I described above?

I hope you’ll answer.

 

[kalt]

reteeks21:
The problem is that people who attack OSAS and say it’s crazy don’t, or refuse to hear it when we say that. They only want to think that we are just selfish people despite the fact that they act like they are asking genuine questions, but when you answer them it isn’t ever good enough for them. I think it’s because they aren’t seeking answers; they just want an arguement. (excuse me. some of them are. didn’t mean to make a blankt statement)

Are you sure that that’s not your fear? I’ve asked about OSAS a few times, and no one has answered the questions.

Maybe no one knows the answer, so it’s just a point that OSAS believers ignore? I asked again in this thread, and maybe somone will finally take pity on me and answer.

We really do want to understand, but instead of answering the question that’s asked, they say that being born again is a license to sin.

We know that. What we’re asking is how a person who is assured of his salvation can commit murder. We know that people who commit murder need to confess (and make a good confession–whichever method of confession you believe in) their sin.

So how does a OSAS person go to Heaven, if he commits a mortal sin (say, murder) and dies unrepentant? How does a OSAS person go to Heaven if, after being saved, he turns away from Jesus and lives a life of crime?

These are things that happen IRL, so we really do want to understand the OSAS position on this.

If you can answer the question, I would be very grateful. And again, I’m not asking so I can debate your answer or to tell you that your ideas are “riduculous”. I’m asking because I want to know.

We know that being born again doesn’t give someone the license to commit sins. What we want to know is what happens when someone who is saved does commit serious sins, like murder or completely turning away from Jesus.

 

[Howie01]

Maybe no one knows the answer, so it’s just a point that OSAS believers ignore? I asked again in this thread, and maybe somone will finally take pity on me and answer.

Upon which view of “OSAS,” are you basing your analogy? You didn’t specify.

 

[allischalmers]

Are you sure that that’s not your fear? I’ve asked about OSAS a few times, and no one has answered the questions.

Maybe no one knows the answer, so it’s just a point that OSAS believers ignore? I asked again in this thread, and maybe somone will finally take pity on me and answer.

We really do want to understand, but instead of answering the question that’s asked, they say that being born again is a license to sin.

We know that. What we’re asking is how a person who is assured of his salvation can commit murder. We know that people who commit murder need to confess (and make a good confession–whichever method of confession you believe in) their sin.

So how does a OSAS person go to Heaven, if he commits a mortal sin (say, murder) and dies unrepentant? How does a OSAS person go to Heaven if, after being saved, he turns away from Jesus and lives a life of crime?

These are things that happen IRL, so we really do want to understand the OSAS position on this.

If you can answer the question, I would be very grateful. And again, I’m not asking so I can debate your answer or to tell you that your ideas are “riduculous”. I’m asking because I want to know.

We know that being born again doesn’t give someone the license to commit sins. What we want to know is what happens when someone who is saved does commit serious sins, like murder or completely turning away from Jesus.

King David commited murder and the Bible says he is in heaven. You take it from there

 

[Graubo3]

Bill I’m sorry brother. Do you request sick and shut in visits from the church?? I have to believe they would send a Deacon or someone to offer the sacrament of communion to you.

I will pray that this can change for you

GOD Bless you too.

NDfan, you made my weekend. Thank you!

Peace, Graubo

 

[reteeks21]

Are you sure that that’s not your fear? I’ve asked about OSAS a few times, and no one has answered the questions.

Maybe no one knows the answer, so it’s just a point that OSAS believers ignore? I asked again in this thread, and maybe somone will finally take pity on me and answer.

We really do want to understand, but instead of answering the question that’s asked, they say that being born again is a license to sin.

We know that. What we’re asking is how a person who is assured of his salvation can commit murder. We know that people who commit murder need to confess (and make a good confession–whichever method of confession you believe in) their sin.

So how does a OSAS person go to Heaven, if he commits a mortal sin (say, murder) and dies unrepentant? How does a OSAS person go to Heaven if, after being saved, he turns away from Jesus and lives a life of crime?

These are things that happen IRL, so we really do want to understand the OSAS position on this.

If you can answer the question, I would be very grateful. And again, I’m not asking so I can debate your answer or to tell you that your ideas are “riduculous”. I’m asking because I want to know.

We know that being born again doesn’t give someone the license to commit sins. What we want to know is what happens when someone who is saved does commit serious sins, like murder or completely turning away from Jesus.

The difference between what you just asked and what others have assumed about OSAS is the key. If a person who willingly turns away from Christ then they have turned away from Christ! If they have renounced Him then I think that speaks for itself. I believe, though, and hope that that person will be brought back by God’s grace and mercy. As another person said David was a murderer and adulterer, BUT he repented. I think we may be on the same page with this one more than we realize.

To be honest I have heard, personally, a couple Catholics say that they can do what they want cause all they need to do is go to confession and get their “slate wiped clean.” To me that sort of attitude is directly in line with a Protestant who takes the same path.

 

[NDfan]

NDfan, you made my weekend. Thank you!

Peace, Graubo

Thank you Graubo. I appreciate that.

Peace and GOD Bless you too

 

[Bill_Pick]

I think questions like this are asked, because the OSAS belief doesn’t seem to make sense. I’ve asked more than once, and no one seems to have an answer.

So I’ll ask you now.

If someone is OSAS, what happens if he does kill his neighbor? If he is assured of his salvation because he was born again (or whatever term is appropriate) he will definitely go to Heaven.

What do you say about that situation? If someone is saved and then kills his neighbor, how does it all work out?

In Catholicism, we don’t believe that we know we’re going to Heaven (by what it says about it in the Bible), We know that we can go astray. We know that anyone can turn his back on God. God gave us free will, and Baptism doesn’t take that free will away. Baptism doesn’t guarantee that a person would never commit mortal sins or turn away from God altogether. Though we do believe that Baptism is more than a symbolic gesture to mark that a person has come to a conclusion, we don’t believe that it takes away a person’s free will to turn from God.

We know that nothing unclean can enter Heaven. So how do those who believe in OSAS explain that a saved person can commit murder or otherwise turn away from God, and that that person will die in that state - unrepentant and seperated from God by his own free will, which is God-given?

We just don’t get it, and it seems that those who believe in OSAS avoid the question.

I’m not challenging your beliefs, I’m just trying to understand what the OSAS position really is. I know that no one here will change your mind, and that’s not my goal. My goal is to understand how this OSAS works in a situation like I described above?

I hope you’ll answer.

My daughter and ex wife believe and both can not give me a good answer,in fact my ex wife husband son just shoot himself with a Bible and a note in hand saying he will see them heaven and I just do not understand so I was thinking some one here tthat believe in OSAS can help but I see they can not,Thanks to all for the help. and have a good night

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

What does that have to do with anything I have said in regards to your comments? I don’t mind answering it, but at least tell us what that has to do with anything related to this topic.

Well then answer it.

 

[BrianH]

My daughter and ex wife believe and both can not give me a good answer,in fact my ex wife husband son just shoot himself with a Bible and a note in hand saying he will see them heaven and I just do not understand so I was thinking some one here tthat believe in OSAS can help but I see they can not,Thanks to all for the help. and have a good night

Bill you posted a similiar question and told us about this two months ago. I think people have tried to answer. I believe they have in a sufficient manner.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill you posted a similiar question and told us about this two months ago. I think people have tried to answer. I believe they have in a sufficient manner.

I may have posted it two months ago, if I did and now that you said that I think I did and I,m still waiting to get a good answer and it looks like I,ll have to post it again in another two months.
and BTW you are right in saying tried to answer.
Have a good night and thanks for your post

 

[BrianH]

I may have posted it two months ago, if I did and now that you said that I think I did and I,m still waiting to get a good answer and it looks like I,ll have to post it again in another two months.
and BTW you are right in saying tried to answer.
Have a good night and thanks for your post

If suicide hurts those left behind, that is not a Catholic, OSAS, or anything, it is a human thing. So lets solve this Bill. What makes you think that OSAS are more selfish than anyone else? If they are not, you have your answer and you will not need to in two months.

 

[Bill_Pick]

If suicide hurts those left behind, that is not a Catholic, OSAS, or anything, it is a human thing. So lets solve this Bill. What makes you think that OSAS are more selfish than anyone else? If they are not, you have your answer and you will not need to in two months.

I,m sorry I dont know what you are talking about with this statement I never said this "What makes you think that OSAS are more selfish than anyone else? I

 

[BrianH]

I,m sorry I dont know what you are talking about with this statement I never said this "What makes you think that OSAS are more selfish than anyone else? I

I have stated the reason that OSAS people would not kill themselves is because of the pain and trauma it would cause those left behind. It would be selfish to intentionally inflict pain on others without regard to their feelings.
This is something we agree on I would think Bill.
So you have an answer to your question. It would hurt others and be selfish to inflict intentional emotional trauma on those not dead.