FOR ALL THE ONCE SAVE ALWAYS SAVE PEOPLE again

[OneTrueCathApos]

**Look, the bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him (John 3:19-24), but the bible does not teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. Writing to Christians, Paul said “SEE THEN, THE KINDNESS AND SEVERITY OF GOD: SEVERITY TOWARD THOSE WHO FELL, BUT GOD’S KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED YOU REMAIN IN HIS KINDNESS, OTHERWISE YOU TOO WILL BE CUT OFF.” (ROMANS 11:22-23; MATT 18:21-35, 1 COR 15:1-2 2 PET 2:20-21) **

 

[Bill_Pick]

I have stated the reason that OSAS people would not kill themselves is because of the pain and trauma it would cause those left behind. It would be selfish to intentionally inflict pain on others without regard to their feelings.
This is something we agree on I would think Bill.
So you have an answer to your question. It would hurt others and be selfish to inflict intentional emotional trauma on those not dead.

Brain Thank you for your answer But IT DOES NOT ANSWER the question what if that person had no children and was not married,we are not talking about other people feelings we are talking about the teaching OSAS

 

[SemperReformada]

Brain Thank you for your answer But IT DOES NOT ANSWER the question what if that person had no children and was not married,we are not talking about other people feelings we are talking about the teaching OSAS

Suicide is a sin…this can’t be a serious question.

 

[BrianH]

Brain Thank you for your answer But IT DOES NOT ANSWER the question what if that person had no children and was not married,we are not talking about other people feelings we are talking about the teaching OSAS

Doctrine has practical ramifications. I do not believe it is a teaching of the Catholic Church that it does not.
But to answer your question. I would suggest that an OSAS person tends to be Sola Scriptura. There is nothing in scripture to suggest the goal of this life is to get to heaven as quickly as possible.

You state:

We all know we are all trying to get there
Are we all trying to get to heaven ? Well if you are then go you have it already made so WHY WAIT

Your basic statement is incorrect. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to indicate that we are trying to get to heaven now at the expense of earthly life. If a person believes in OSAS because of the Bible (right or wrong), then they would also need a scriptural admonition that eternal life must be sought the minute it is obtained.
There is ample evidence that the Bible teaches we are not to do that. You cannot ignore one thing at the expense of the other. Now, you may disagree with the OSAS interpretation but nothing in scripture indicates that believers are to kill themselves.
Now let me ask you a simple question.

Do you believe this is an effective argument against OSAS?
I obviously do not think so. I do not see anyone except possibly OTCAC that might agree with you.
I do know that as a Catholic, someone who is supposed to follow the teaching and tradition of their Church, the Catholic Church has never in any form made this argument against OSAS on these grounds.
It would be your own personal interpretation I believe.
Thanks for YOUR reply.

 

[SemperReformada]

Doctrine has practical ramifications. I do not believe it is a teaching of the Catholic Church that it does not.
But to answer your question. I would suggest that an OSAS person tends to be Sola Scriptura. There is nothing in scripture to suggest the goal of this life is to get to heaven as quickly as possible.

You state:

Your basic statement is incorrect. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to indicate that we are trying to get to heaven now at the expense of earthly life. If a person believes in OSAS because of the Bible (right or wrong), then they would also need a scriptural admonition that eternal life must be sought the minute it is obtained.
There is ample evidence that the Bible teaches we are not to do that. You cannot ignore one thing at the expense of the other. Now, you may disagree with the OSAS interpretation but nothing in scripture indicates that believers are to kill themselves.
Now let me ask you a simple question.

Do you believe this is an effective argument against OSAS?
I obviously do not think so. I do not see anyone except possibly OTCAC that might agree with you.
I do know that as a Catholic, someone who is supposed to follow the teaching and tradition of their Church, the Catholic Church has never in any form made this argument against OSAS on these grounds.
It would be your own personal interpretation I believe.
Thanks for YOUR reply.

This is a great post.

 

[Fisher]

This question is for all that belive in the teaching of OSAS, If you are save then right after you are save why not just kill your self and go right to heaven WHY WAIT We all know we are all trying to get there so why wait,I my self like to be in heaven now. What do you think[/QUOT

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” —Romans 4:5

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: Romans 5:1

“But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.” —Romans 5:15

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies

, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." —2nd Peter 2:1

For ye are ***bought ***with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1Cr 6:20

If you go to Hell for all eternity, it will only be because you rejected the free gift of eternal life. Can you imagine? Can you imagine someone being cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity to be tormented, knowing that Christ had freely paid for their ticket into Heaven? They were too proud and stubborn to accept it. John 3:20 plainly tells us that a love for sin causes many people to avoid the Truth of God’s Word, and the Saviour …

“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” —John 3:20

Works come after your saved.

Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

2nd Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Revelation 20:15, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[/quote]

 

[Bill_Pick]

Doctrine has practical ramifications. I do not believe it is a teaching of the Catholic Church that it does not.
But to answer your question. I would suggest that an OSAS person tends to be Sola Scriptura. There is nothing in scripture to suggest the goal of this life is to get to heaven as quickly as possible.

You state:

Your basic statement is incorrect. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to indicate that we are trying to get to heaven now at the expense of earthly life. If a person believes in OSAS because of the Bible (right or wrong), then they would also need a scriptural admonition that eternal life must be sought the minute it is obtained.
There is ample evidence that the Bible teaches we are not to do that. You cannot ignore one thing at the expense of the other. Now, you may disagree with the OSAS interpretation but nothing in scripture indicates that believers are to kill themselves.
Now let me ask you a simple question.

Do you believe this is an effective argument against OSAS?
I obviously do not think so. I do not see anyone except possibly OTCAC that might agree with you.
I do know that as a Catholic, someone who is supposed to follow the teaching and tradition of their Church, the Catholic Church has never in any form made this argument against OSAS on these grounds.
It would be your own personal interpretation I believe.
Thanks for YOUR reply.

You believe right it is not from the Church,are we all not trying to get to heaven.so why wait. Onse save ALWAYS SAVE

 

[BrianH]

You believe right it is not from the Church,are we all not trying to get to heaven.so why wait. Onse save ALWAYS SAVE

There is nothing in the Bible that says we are to hurry the process along.

 

[RevDrNorth]

I was rolling on the floor laughing when I saw people who did not accept OSAS drawing the conclusion that people who believe in OSAS should want to die immediately or commit suicide. I sincerely hope that they were being (or attempting to be) funny.

People who assert belief in Eternal Security do so because (from their point of view) it is scriptural and they take Jesus Christ at His word. There are a number of verses that support this concept (it is late but you can Google to find articles on Eternal Security).

Next, no they would not commit suicide anymore than a Catholic would after visiting the confessional. First, suicide is wrong (won’t get into the sinfulness or issues of depression and God’s mercy, etc). But suffice to say, no Evangelical Christian in their right mind is going to receive salvation and then off themselves.

Finally, for someone who believes in scripture as the Word of God and accepts Eternal Security, there are other issues such as working out our salvation (i.e. sanctification). Evangelicals who believe in Eternal Security also believe that they are to grow more Christlike through prayer and living out the message of the Gospel. This means spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ, assisting in meeting the needs of the body of Christ as the Lord leads and the Spirit has gifted.

 

[Bill_Pick]

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” —Romans 4:5

 

[Bill_Pick]

There is nothing in the Bible that says we are to hurry the process along.

Brian not all is in the bible john 21;-25

Brian go to page 2 and look at the other post on OSAS she has it in better words then me and answer her question.May I ask it your denomination has the teaching of OSAS and please look up the word always in a dictionary.
I,m not trying to be a hard nose I just do not understand the teaching of osas
After the boy that shot himself the preacher said we now know he is in heaven,sorry but I just do not understand.Please do not get mad at me,smile

 

[Peter_J]

What is the point of this question? Is it necessary?

I agree with you reteeks. If I may add a question of my own: Why has such a OP as that generate 50 responses? I think a lot of us have too much time on our hands. (Of course, I guess I’m indicting myself as well, since I’ve now posted on this thread too. )

P.S. Hmm, I wonder how many responses I could get with a “All Protestants go to hell” thread. :ehh: Fascinating.

 

[BrianH]

Brian not all is in the bible john 21;-25

Brian go to page 2 and look at the other post on OSAS she has it in better words then me and answer her question.May I ask it your denomination has the teaching of OSAS and please look up the word always in a dictionary.
I,m not trying to be a hard nose I just do not understand the teaching of osas
After the boy that shot himself the preacher said we now know he is in heaven,sorry but I just do not understand.Please do not get mad at me,smile

I am neither defending or refuting OSAS and that is not what the OP question you posed does either. It directly deals with why OSAS people do not just kill themselves when they become saved. I am trying to deal with that. Do you agree, yes or no, that the question you posed has been answered at least for people that have a family or children that would be devasted.
You do understand it. You may disagree with it. But I think you understand it. I have done absolutely nothing to indicate anger of any kind, persistence maybe, but not anger.
Thanks

 

[BrianH]

Brian not all is in the bible john 21;-25

There are no Christian traditions that advocate suicide either.
Do you agree or disagree?
But the point was that most OSAS are Sola Scriptura. If there are OSAS that are not Sola Scriptura, you are not aware of any Sacred Tradition advocating suicide. Yes or no? I will not deal with anyone else but you. You have posted this question enough times that we are going to get an answer for you. You may not agree with the answer. But you will have an answer.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I am neither defending or refuting OSAS and that is not what the OP question you posed does either. It directly deals with why OSAS people do not just kill themselves when they become saved. I am trying to deal with that. Do you agree, yes or no, that the question you posed has been answered at least for people that have a family or children that would be devasted.
You do understand it. You may disagree with it. But I think you understand it. I have done absolutely nothing to indicate anger of any kind, persistence maybe, but not anger.
Thanks

Brian I never said you are mad what I said was Please do not get mad at me. Yes I agree peopel are not to kill them self but I think some do, I know one person and is a very good friend that was saved 15 years ago at a Billy Gram meeting and has not been to church are said a pray and has done a lot of sins that I know of and he will tell you he is going to heaven and he believes it,I know another person that was having sex with some one that was NOT his wife and drop dead with his heart and His wife said he is now in heaven,Thats what I do not understand.
Brian Please do not get your pants in a bunsh we are just talking and BTW you did not say if you believe in the teaching of OSAS

 

[Bill_Pick]

Brian I never said you are mad what I said was Please do not get mad at me. Yes I agree peopel are not to kill them self but I think some do, I know one person and is a very good friend that was saved 15 years ago at a Billy Gram meeting and has not been to church are said a pray and has done a lot of sins that I know of and he will tell you he is going to heaven and he believes it,I know another person that was having sex with some one that was NOT his wife and drop dead with his heart and His wife said he is now in heaven,Thats what I do not understand.
Brian Please do not get your pants in a bunsh we are just talking and BTW you did not say if you believe in the teaching of OSAS

PS> I hope you can read what I was trying to say,watching baskball and doing this and I,m not that smart

 

[BrianH]

Brian I never said you are mad what I said was Please do not get mad at me. Yes I agree peopel are not to kill them self but I think some do, I know one person and is a very good friend that was saved 15 years ago at a Billy Gram meeting and has not been to church are said a pray and has done a lot of sins that I know of and he will tell you he is going to heaven and he believes it,I know another person that was having sex with some one that was NOT his wife and drop dead with his heart and His wife said he is now in heaven,Thats what I do not understand.
Brian Please do not get your pants in a bunsh we are just talking and BTW you did not say if you believe in the teaching of OSAS

In an attempt to keep the conversation focused on the first question, I think it is imperative to stick with the OP question you posed. The central question is why do OSAS not kill themselves when saved? Is that correct still? Do you feel that question has been answered or not?

I have stated that people who believe in OSAS do not kill themselves because it is selfish and there is not a scriptural mandate to do so or a Christian tradition advocating for this. Is there anything in particular about this answer you find objectionable?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This question is for all that belive in the teaching of OSAS, If you are save then right after you are save why not just kill your self and go right to heaven WHY WAIT We all know we are all trying to get there so why wait,I my self like to be in heaven now. What do you think

You’re not even trying to understand OSAS. The question is like asking a Catholic why he doesn’t commit as many sins as he can, since he can always go to Confession. The answer is the same: grace is given that we may depart from sin - not that we may wallow in it.​

 

[Bill_Pick]

In an attempt to keep the conversation focused on the first question, I think it is imperative to stick with the OP question you posed. The central question is why do OSAS not kill themselves when saved? Is that correct still? Do you feel that question has been answered or not?

I have stated that people who believe in OSAS do not kill themselves because it is selfish and there is not a scriptural mandate to do so or a Christian tradition advocating for this. Is there anything in particular about this answer you find objectionable?

Brian from your post if looks like you believe in once save ALWAYS saved so please just explain why you do and under what base . And may I ask why you are ALWAYS talking some one being selfish

 

[Bill_Pick]

Brian from your post if looks like you believe in once save ALWAYS saved so please just explain why you do and under what base . And may I ask why you are ALWAYS talking some one being selfish

PS The person I,m talking about the person that is dead believes he was right,his preacher thing he is in heaven.