For All the Protestants That Care to Answer . . .

[awantz]

Yes, he would. Of course, his idea of it is that everyone would become members of the Catholic Church, and he would still be the Pope.

I was just wondering what your idea of it would be. Would we still have a Pope? Would there still be things like Doctrine, Morality, and the Sacraments? I’m just wondering what the Protestant idea of “unity” would look like.

Yes, there would still be a Pope, but he would not be infallible. I know a lot of Protestants have issues with that. There already is doctrine and morality. Yes, there would be sacraments, but not all of them would be a requirement. I am not going by my feelings alone. I am trying to think of how other Protestants would feel as well.

 

[rr1213]

I was just wondering what your idea of it would be. Would we still have a Pope? Would there still be things like Doctrine, Morality, and the Sacraments? I’m just wondering what the Protestant idea of “unity” would look like.

I don’t see it happening this side of heaven. There may be a convergence of sorts on some doctrinal issues such as faith/works and the Eucharist in some Protestant Churches…some Churches may become more Catholic in outlook and/or doctrine, but other Churches will be heading the other way. Even for those who might find themselves coming closer to the Catholic viewpoint, the Papacy will be a sticking point. I think many Protestants are prepared to honor and respect the Pope as a Christian leader (many do now in that regard, including me), but the Catholic Church is not going to retreat on Papal authority and infallability, so I don’t think the gap will be closed. Maybe if you and the Orthodox Churches manage to come together it could serve as a template for the Protestant Churches.

 

[twosevendeuce]

The answer would likely be NO, since Protestants are at the least schismatics and at the worst heretics, who perverted and departed from the Reformation’s goals of correcting errors within the church catholic.

The decendents of Zwingli, Calvin and company (not Luther, despite his polemics) are inheritors of their progenitors’ desires to reject and destroy the teachings, traditions and characteristics of the catholic faith. Inject into this the rabid anti-Romanism in America and you have a formula that will never allow Protestants to even consider the move to Rome.

 

[twosevendeuce]

Your comments, of course, apply strictly only to those Protestants who reject infant baptism. I’d say that the majority of Protestants baptise infants (e.g., Episcopal, Methodist, Lutheran, Presbyterian).

Please be careful including Lutherans with Protestants . We really are not, regardless of bad teaching and misinformation on the part of many who claim Lutheranism as their denomination. We really are catholic (with a little “c” and not Protestant), a fact which many people - Lutheran and non-Lutheran are beginning to rediscover.

 

[rr1213]

Please be careful including Lutherans with Protestants . We really are not, regardless of bad teaching and misinformation on the part of many who claim Lutheranism as their denomination. We really are catholic (with a little “c” and not Protestant), a fact which many people - Lutheran and non-Lutheran are beginning to rediscover.

I understand that many Lutherans (and Anglicans) consider themselves to be Catholic, albeit not Catholic in the sense of being in communion with Rome. Still, the word “Protestant” most accurately describes those Churches which followed Luther, Calvin and/or Zwingli in becoming separated from the Roman Church during the Reformation in the 16th Century. This would include the Lutheran Churches.

 

[havemercy]

The question I have for you is, saying we drop all of these beliefs (i.e. authentic Christianity), why would converting mean or be anything special?

 

[twosevendeuce]

I understand that many Lutherans (and Anglicans) consider themselves to be Catholic, albeit not Catholic in the sense of being in communion with Rome. Still, the word “Protestant” most accurately describes those Churches which followed Luther, Calvin and/or Zwingli in becoming separated from the Roman Church during the Reformation in the 16th Century. This would include the Lutheran Churches.

The key word is seperation, which was something that Calvin and Zwingli took great efforts to accomplish. However, seperation was never a goal of Luther or what the world would come to know as Lutherans, at least not until the modern American drift toward closer ties with liberal Protestantism (UCC, UMC, etc.).
Hillaire Belloc is certainly no Lutheran (he’s one of your’s as you know) but he even states clearly in The Great Heresies that Luther unlike Zwingli (and Calvin) was no enemy of the Catholic faith.
Let us not forget, it was Pope Leo who seperated Luther from the Rome; Luther never seperated himself from the Catholic church. If fact, the Augsburg Confession (our statement of faith) was written with one purpose in mind - to reaffirm the catholicity of Lutheran thought and teaching over and against the teaching of Protestants such as Calvin and Zwingli.
If you choose to believe this or not, it’s up to you. But that’s OK, most Lutheran’s can’t get it right .
Peace and blessings.

 

[RNRobert]

I was listening to a podcast of a Catholic program that discussed the Reformartion. The host stated that 92 or 95 of Luther’s theses were valid. The problem was that he assumed that because some church members were corrupt, then church doctrine ws corrupt, and we didn’t need priests, sacraments etc. Another thing is from what I’ve read of him, he was rather pugnacious and could have used a little (maybe alot) more humility.

 

[colliric]

Church of Christ

I have to say, I find COC to be full of nice people, although they are misguided on some issues. I happily did my Alpha Course certificate with them while attending another church, they were a wonderful and open group of Christians who I noticed seemed to accept other denominations as also christian, despite disagreeing with them. I noticed Sola Scriptura wasn’t frowned upon but neither was the opposite idea of scripture + tradition. If more protestants were like them, open to all ideas, we’d have better more intelligent arguments.

I noticed they were certainly open to learning about how to correctly worship and know God through Christ.

 

[AlegreFe]

I was just wondering that if the CC dropped their Traditions of honoring Mary and the saints, the sacrament of Confession to a priest and the papal infallibility doctrine, would Protestants become Catholic?

They may as well stay Protestant if that’s the case.

Oh wait… you didn’t list the Holy Eucharist there. I guess then that would be a great reason to convert to Catholicism!

 

[awantz]

I have to say, I find COC to be full of nice people, although they are misguided on some issues. I happily did my Alpha Course certificate with them while attending another church, they were a wonderful and open group of Christians who I noticed seemed to accept other denominations as also christian, despite disagreeing with them. I noticed Sola Scriptura wasn’t frowned upon but neither was the opposite idea of scripture + tradition. If more protestants were like them, open to all ideas, we’d have better more intelligent arguments.

I noticed they were certainly open to learning about how to correctly worship and know God through Christ.

There are more protestants like that than you realize.

 

[Ladybug42]

It would shake my doubts quite soundly if the RCC began to ordain deaconesses as were mentioned in the Epistles. Or explain very soundly why they stopped doing so.

Do you have to believe that Mary was without sin to become Catholic? And that she was assumed into heaven? Just curious. Because I personally don’t see what either of those things have to do with salvation.

Teachings on merits don’t make sense to me. I think people should do good things, or suffer through the bad, for God’s glory alone. Adding it to Christ’s sacrifice somehow lessons or degrades Christ’s saving power.

And teachings on purgatory. Why in the world would God decide to somehow speed up someone’s time in there just because of a prayer, or our “merits”? Why wouldn’t he want to speed it up anyways? God wants us to pray for our own sakes, not to aid Him in any way. I know that according to His own revelation to us in the Scripture, He is All-Just and All-Merciful. We will be purged of sin, and done so without unnecessary suffering–to do otherwise would make God other than All-Just and All-Merciful. He doesn’t need us to devote our earthly suffering to that purpose–He does that anyways.

These are issues that prevent me from becoming Catholic.

 

[rr1213]

Do you have to believe that Mary was without sin to become Catholic? And that she was assumed into heaven?

These teachings are part of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, both of which have been dogmatically defined by the Catholic Church so, yes, if you want to be a faithful Catholic you would need to accept these doctrines. If I have this wrong, I’m sure some Catholic will correct me.

 

[AlegreFe]

It would shake my doubts quite soundly if the RCC began to ordain deaconesses as were mentioned in the Epistles… explain very soundly why they stopped doing so.

I guess for some of the same reasons why we don’t have women priests. A woman can become an extraordinary minister of the Eucharist & read during Mass. It would be along the same lines as that of a deacon, except reading the Gospel; only a Priest or Deacon can read from the Gospels.

Cardinal says synod won’t propose married priests,
women deacons
He said women already can be eucharistic ministers,
so as deacons they would be doing much the same
thing as when they lead prayer services and serve as
extraordinary ministers of Communion.

Why not just become a nun if any female is interested in the Religious life?

Ladybug42:

Do you have to believe that Mary was without sin to become Catholic? And that she was assumed into heaven?.. Because I personally don’t see what either of those things have to do with salvation.

As Catholics we are to obey the Pope as Jesus appointed him as the earthly head shephard of our One Flock. With that said, we are to believe everything that God has revealed to us and we are to believe everything that Jesus has said to us in His preaching and teaching as He handed down the Faith to the Apostles and they in turn handed down the faith by preaching and they in turn layed hands on men so as to ordain them into Bishophood. The Bishops are our shephards just as the Apostles were.

more…

 

[AlegreFe]

Ladybug42:

Teachings on merits don’t make sense to me. I think people should do good things, or suffer through the bad, for God’s glory alone. Adding it to Christ’s sacrifice somehow less-]o/-]ens or degrades Christ’s saving power.

No Catholic person lessens or degrades the saving power of Christ. We do not add to Christ’s sacrifice in the way that you think we do. But God does allow us to participate along with Jesus in our own sacrifice as we are to give our lives to God.

6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the growth.
7 Therefore, neither the one who plants nor the one who
waters is anything, but only God, who causes the growth.
8 The one who plants and the one who waters are equal,
and each will receive wages in proportion to his labor.
9 For we are God’s co-workers; you are God’s field,
God’s building.
1 Cor 3:6-9

We are all in the priesthood of Jesus Christ. But of course not as Ordained Priests because we cannot change the bread and wine into the Body & Blood of Jesus. But nonetheless we are all part of the priesthood in Jesus. Why? We can offer our own lives to God. We can offer sacrifices of our own. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard a Catholic say, “offer it up” or not, but that’s what it basically means, to offer up their own sufferings and sacrifices for God. There is nothing lacking, as far as His saving power, in the Passion of Christ but we can certainly add for the sake of the Body of Christ, the Church. We are to offer supplication on behalf of sinners in the hopes of their conversion. Of course we all know that only God the Holy Spirit can convert anyone’s heart.

24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake,
and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in
the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body,
which is the church
Col 1:24

We also pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet where we offer to God, the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of His only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.

Ladybug42:

And teachings on purgatory. Why in the world would God decide to somehow speed up someone’s time in there just because of a prayer, or our “merits”? Why wouldn’t he want to speed it up anyways? God wants us to pray for our own sakes, not to aid Him in any way.

Our prayers never “aid” God in any way and Catholics know this. We pray for each other because it’s scriptural and Jesus told us to pray for each other. So I obey. Just because a soul is in Purgatory does not mean that they are actually dead. Their souls are alive, they are called the “Church Suffering” and I certainly advise to pray for them as Jesus commanded that we pray for all our brothers and sisters.

As far as further conversation about Purgatory, a thread already exists on this subject.

Ladybug42:

I know that according to His own revelation to us in the Scripture, He is All-Just and All-Merciful. We will be purged of sin, and done so without unnecessary suffering–to do otherwise would make God other than All-Just and All-Merciful. He doesn’t need us to devote our earthly suffering to that purpose–He does that anyways.

Yes He does that for us but since sin entered into the world, we are to suffer. Just knowing that we suffer we should take advantage of that and offer all of our sufferings to God. See Colossians verse above.

Ladybug42:

These are issues that prevent me from becoming Catholic.

Only you are preventing you from becoming Catholic. Just keep your heart open and let the Holy Spirit guide you to where God wants you to be. Pray, pray and pray some more. You are certainly in my prayers as Jesus is thirsty for your soul so that you can receive His true body & blood in the Catholic Church.

 

[AlegreFe]

These teachings are part of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, both of which have been dogmatically defined by the Catholic Church so, yes, if you want to be a faithful Catholic you would need to accept these doctrines. If I have this wrong, I’m sure some Catholic will correct me.

You are correct.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I have to say, I find COC to be full of nice people, although they are misguided on some issues. I happily did my Alpha Course certificate with them while attending another church, they were a wonderful and open group of Christians who I noticed seemed to accept other denominations as also christian, despite disagreeing with them. I noticed Sola Scriptura wasn’t frowned upon but neither was the opposite idea of scripture + tradition. If more protestants were like them, open to all ideas, we’d have better more intelligent arguments.

I noticed they were certainly open to learning about how to correctly worship and know God through Christ.

You weren’t at our church in southern Missouri, were you? What you just described is basically our church. They were VERY helpful to me when I started coming into the idea of religion, as I came from a non-Christian household. Religion and God were just never discussed when I was growing up. My church received me with open arms and introduced me to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and gave me a Bible to use as my guide. I’d be lost without my faith community.

 

[AlegreFe]

I’d be lost without my faith community.

I’d be lost without Jesus Christ. That is why I’m glad I have Him in the Catholic Church, truly present in the Holy Eucharist.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

I’d be lost without Jesus Christ. That is why I’m glad I have Him in the Catholic Church, truly present in the Holy Eucharist.

I’d be lost without Jesus in my life too! I’m happy to know that He walks beside me each and every day of my life, as Iong as I have faith in Him.

 

[Ladybug42]

I’d be lost without Jesus in my life too! I’m happy to know that He walks beside me each and every day of my life, as Iong as I have faith in Him.

Amen, the Lord is always with His faithful children, and will be until His glorious return, when we will finally see Him as He is!