For All the Protestants That Care to Answer . . .

[flameburns623]

I was just wondering that if the CC dropped their Traditions of honoring Mary and the saints, the sacrament of Confession to a priest and the papal infallibility doctrine, would Protestants become Catholic?
The reason I listed these is because these seem to be the main ones Protestants have issues with.
Also, if your reason is not listed in the ones I mentioned, feel free to share.
Protestants that converted to Catholicism can also share the reason why they converted, if they’d like.

Infallibility and Marian dogmas in particular ARE stumbling-blocks for me. Purgatory is another. The focus on works rather than on grace is a fourth. Auricular confession is NOT an issue. I could come up with a couple of others if I reflect a moment or so. The de-emphasis on personal Bible study, the lack of adult religious education programs, come to mind though these are not insurmountable issues.

Some of the Roman Catholics are using the OP’s question, and some of the responses, as a springboard for giving once again the standard, ‘pat’, and wholly unsatisfactory Catholic apologetic responses to these issues. The fact is, that while such responses are a good opening to begin a dialogue–and while SOME Protestants may find them sufficient–other, more-reflective Protestants such as myself find these responses wanting.

For example: prayer is NOT just a synonym for ‘petition’ in Christian theology: prayer, for Christians, is a supernatural act of worship, and as such prayers can NEVER be addressed to Mary or to any other person, living or dead. You are NOT praying to your living mother, brother, sister, or fellow-Christian, because your request to them does NOT constitute a supernatural act nor an act of worship.

Praying to St. XYZ, however, is both a supernatural act (they are unable to hear your petitions by way of any natural means); AND it is an act of ‘worship’, which is what ‘dulia’ actually means. (Remember that Roman Catholic theology posits a non-existent distinction between ‘dulia’, ‘hyperdulia’, and ‘latria’: the words, in fact, are synonyms and the distinction made is a distinction which in fact lacks any substantive difference).

These sorts of arguments can be pursued to greater detail in other threads–there are plenty of threads already extant on this forum, and no limits I am aware of on creating new ones if someone chooses. Hopefully, though, I have answered the OP’s original question, at least from my own personal perspective.

 

[santaro75]

I looked at Esther and saw where you get the connection and I agree that Mary was favored by God, more so than any of us, since she carried Jesus in her womb.

this is why we ask her to bring our petitions to the king.

 

[santaro75]

Infallibility and Marian dogmas in particular ARE stumbling-blocks for me. Purgatory is another. The focus on works rather than on grace is a fourth.

Hi Flame,

Can you agree that infallibility is needed to preserve anything? for example, the basic profession of our faith has to be stamped with infalliblity to preserve what was taught or else it will be changed with human enginuity. you can see evidence of it throughout christianity.

Can you agree that infalliblity of interpreting doctrine is possible through a sinner by virtue of his appointment? For example the writers of the NT books of the bible were infallible in their interpretation of scripture and prophecy but were not infallible people. They were protected from error by their appointment as apostles in the role of teaching the deposit of faith.

As for Grace and Works. Can you agree that a christian life under grace without works of that grace is not saving?

These are my simple views of some of your questions from a lay catholics perspective.

peace

 

[RNRobert]

The Church has Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist which are both male and female.

And male and female lectors.

 

[Sixtus]

As a Catholic have no problem with Protestants not following our traditions. Indeed a very dear friend of mine is an Anglican low church Rector.

But, I feel I must just point out that the criticism

Who better to go to than God Himself with your prayers?

, I have often not felt like prayer, then upon seeing my large statue of the BVM feel compelled to kneel and praise God in the Holy Trinity.

 

[AlegreFe]

This statement really bothers me. Do you believe that Protestants do not consume Jesus because we do not eat wafers and drink wine in your type of church?

We do not eat wafers and drink wine. And it’s not “my ‘type’ of church” either. This Catholic Church is Jesus’ Church. I don’t eat a wafer, I eat Jesus’ Body. I do not drink wine, I drink Jesus’ Blood.

Ladybug42:

Do we not consume Him in our own Eucharist?

No other church has the Eucharist in the true sense that is the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

Ladybug42:

Do we not consume Him every time we drink in His words, and feed on Him in every way possible? I feed on Him in my heart.

In the Mass we have the Liturgy of the Word, then the Liturgy of the Eucharist. So we do “consume” His Word in the Scriptures first. But then we go further with Jesus’ command to actually consume His Body and Blood because they are true food and true drink.

I’m sorry but Jesus did not say in John 6, “he who feeds on me in their heart will have eternal life.”

I’m not saying that what you do is not good. It is good, it’s great! :yup:
But that is NOT enough. That is not the only thing that Jesus commands of us. Jesus said to eat His flesh and drink His blood.

52 The Jews then disputed among themselves,
saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to
eat?”
53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say
to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son
of man and drink his blood, you have no life
in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood
has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the
last day.
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood
is drink indeed.
56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood
abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live
because of the Father, so he who eats me
will live because of me.
58 This is the bread which came down from
heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he
who eats this bread will live for ever."

Ladybug42:

I don’t need to go to a Catholic Church in order to drink His blood and eat His body.

The only place you can eat the flesh of the Son of Man is in the Catholic Church (see next post… no Holy Orders, no Priest, no Eucharist).

more in next post…

 

[AlegreFe]

…cont.

Ladybug42:

In fact, when I go to a Catholic Church, I am told not to partake of the Eucharist because I don’t believe in or understand some completely peripheral things that have nothing to do with Christ’s message of salvation.

You have to be in full communion with the Catholic Church in order to partake of Jesus in the Holy Mass.

Here is something from a Catholic education website that mentions Holy Communion;
One of the great fruits of Holy Communion, according to the
Catechism (No. 1396), is that the Holy Eucharist makes the
Church: “Those who receive the Eucharist are united more
closely to Christ. Through it, Christ unites them to all the
faithful in one body – the Church. Communion renews,
strengthens, and deepens this incorporation into the Church,
already achieved by Baptism.” Therefore, the reception of
Holy Communion truly unites in communion the Catholic
faithful who share the same faith, doctrinal teachings,
traditions, sacraments, and leadership.

Given this foundation, we can address the first question:
Can Catholics receive communion in a Protestant Church
or vice versa? Vatican Council II recognized that the
Protestant Churches “have not preserved the proper reality
of the Eucharistic Mystery in its fullness, especially because
of the absence of the Sacrament of Holy Orders” (Decree on
Ecumenism, No. 22). For this very reason, the sharing of
Holy Communion between Protestants and Catholics is not
possible (Catechism, No. 1400). This statement does not
suggest that Protestant Churches do not commemorate the
Lord’s death and resurrection in their communion service or
believe that it signifies a communion with Christ.
Nevertheless, Protestant theology differs with Catholic
theology concerning the Holy Eucharist over the real presence
of Christ, transubstantiation, the sacrifice of the Mass, and
the nature of the priesthood. For this reason, Protestants,
although perhaps upright Christians, may not receive Holy
Communion at Mass, and Catholics may not receive
communion at a Protestant service.

Ladybug42:

Perhaps some Protestant groups need to try to listen to that commandment. But the majority of us take that very seriously.

Yes I understand this. :yup:
But why would you want to stop just at a symbol and/or only stop at the readings in Sacred Scripture when you can have Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist?!

 

[Blue_Serenity]

We do not eat wafers and drink wine. And it’s not “my ‘type’ of church” either. This Catholic Church is Jesus’ Church. I don’t eat a wafer, I eat Jesus’ Body. I do not drink wine, I drink Jesus’ Blood.

No other church has the Eucharist in the true sense that is the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

Do you believe that is the only time Jesus is truly present within you?

AlegreFe:

I’m sorry but Jesus did not say in John 6, “he who feeds on me in their heart will have eternal life.”

Oh but I beg to differ:
John 6:35-40
35
Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
36
But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe.
37
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
38
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
39
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

 

[BabyDoll4]

I don’t have any useful insights to give, but I wanted to say thank you to all for your comments. (quick little background) I am a Mennonite who joined the Anglican church about 4 years ago. Since then and after much conversation with a good friend, my hubby and I are being drawn to the Catholic Church. There is soooo much I need to learn and need to know about. I have unanswered questions and a few issues with the Catholic Church. But that is all a part of a spiritual journey. If you stop seeking then what’s the point? Anyway, I think there are some things of the reformation that were a disservice, but at the same time, Protestants have done an outstanding job of preaching the gospel of Christ world wide and I think anyone would agree that the Body of Christ is HUGE! We are all servants of Christ, we just need to find our place in accordance to His will for the growth of His kingdom.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I think anyone would agree that the Body of Christ is HUGE! We are all servants of Christ, we just need to find our place in accordance to His will for the growth of His kingdom.

to that!!!

 

[Ladybug42]

But why would you want to stop just at a symbol and/or only stop at the readings in Sacred Scripture when you can have Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist?!

It’s not just a symbol to me. It is His body and blood.

 

[AlegreFe]

Do you believe that is the only time Jesus is truly present within you?

Truly and Substantially present within me? … YES. :yup:
Spiritually in me?.. No. But I also believe that when someone is in the state of mortal or grievous sin, the Holy Spirit is NOT present within them.

AlegreFe;1828816:

I’m sorry but Jesus did not say in John 6, “he who feeds on me in their heart will have eternal life.”
(see verse 54 below in next post)

Oh but I beg to differ:
John 6:35-40
35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
36 But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe.
37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

All of these verses still pertain on whether you believe in what Jesus said about His Body being true food and that you have to eat His Flesh. These verses are still part of the "Bread of Life Discourse" or as it says in my Protestant bible (ESV), "I Am the Bread of Life," from verses 22 to 59.

We Catholics say that we have to have Faith. Faith is believing ALL that God has revealed to us including the words that Jesus has said. We have to believe in His commands and accept them and actually do them. We just don’t “believe” in Him and that’s it. Satan believes that God/Jesus exists and look where he is (Fr.Corapi’s famous words). We just don’t “accept Jesus as personal Lord & Savior” either as that is not enough. We have to “take action” in the Words our Savior gave us, ALL the words in full context in Sacred Scripture (and everything that is in Sacred Tradition).

These following verses prove to me that Jesus meant that we have to believe that He is our Bread of Life as in True Food that we masticate in our mouths and swallow.
47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever
believes has eternal life.
48 I am the bread of life.
49 Your fathers ate the manna in the
wilderness, and they died.
50 This is the bread that comes
down from heaven, so that one
may eat of it and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came
down from heaven. If anyone eats
of this bread, he will live forever.
And the bread that I will give for
the life of the world is my flesh.”
John 6:47-51 (ESV)

Right after Jesus says, “whoever believes has eternal life” He goes on to explain that He is the bread of life that I have to actually eat, chew, masticate, munch… and swallow into my body so that my body is one with Jesus and one with the rest of the Body of Christ that just fed on Him substantially. So those words, “whoever believes” means that whoever believes that it is Him that they eat they will have eternal life.

more in next post…

 

[AlegreFe]

…continued for Blue Serenity and anyone else who wants to read.

Then the Jews disputed this and were troubled that Jesus would say that they had to eat His flesh. Right after that Jesus affirmed His previous statements and told them that unless they ate of His flesh, they had no life. That, to the Church (to me too), means that we have to actually eat, chew, masticate on His flesh.
52 The Jews then disputed among
themselves, saying, “How can this
man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly,
truly, I say to you, unless you eat
the flesh of the Son of Man and
drink his blood, you have no life
in you.
54 Whoever feeds on my flesh
and drinks my blood has eternal
life, and I will raise him up on the — <–this is the verse that I was talking about in my quote above
last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my
blood is true drink.
56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and
drinks my blood abides in me, and I
in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and
I live because of the Father, so
whoever feeds on me, he also will live
because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down
from heaven, not like the bread the
fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds
on this bread will live forever.”
John 6:52-58 (ESV)

If you don’t believe those words literally, then how can you say that you believe in Jesus and everything He said? We have to take everything that Jesus says and do it, not just believe in Jesus. We have faith in every word that Jesus spoke.

 

[AlegreFe]

AlegreFe;1828818:

But why would you want to stop just at a symbol and/or only stop at the readings in Sacred Scripture when you can have Jesus, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist?!

It’s not just a symbol to me. It is His body and blood.

Wow, I commend your faith! And certainly God will grace you for your faith because you actually believe the words of Jesus that he said we have to eat of His flesh in order to have eternal life.

Here is one of my previous posts;

No other church has the Eucharist in the true sense that is the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.
…

Ladybug42:

I don’t need to go to a Catholic Church in order to drink His blood and eat His body.

The only place you can eat the flesh of the Son of Man is in the Catholic Church (see next post… no Holy Orders, no Priest, no Eucharist).

The Eucharist or “True Presence” of Jesus exists in no other church other than the Catholic Church.

Since there are no validly ordained priests in your church or any other Protestant church, there can be no Eucharist. Even though you believe that you are consuning the true body and blood of Jesus, you are not because there is no transubstantiation happening in your church because there are no Priests. Your pastors or ministers are not validly ordained in the Ministerial Priesthood of Jesus Chirst. Jesus gave the power of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles to change the bread and wine to the True Body & Blood of Jesus Christ. Those Apostles were our first Bishops who in turn lay hands on their disciples and made them Bishops or their successors. We have those successors in our Catholic Church and therefore the power of the Holy Spirit to change the bread to the True Body of Christ, remains in our Catholic Church with the validly ordained Priests.

You have the kind of Faith that ALL Catholics should have in believing that we are consuming the True body of Christ. For that reason you should come join us in the Catholic Church which is the ONE True Church that Jesus built on Peter the Rock. You are most welcome into the Catholic Church!

 

[Ladybug42]

{{{{{Sandy}}}}} Thank you for your kind words!

There are a lot of us out there that believe that, that we really imbibe the Lord’s body and blood.

 

[rr1213]

:Here is one of my previous posts;
The Eucharist or “True Presence” of Jesus exists in no other church other than the Catholic Church.

This is not true, but it’s not worth arguing about because you will simply say that Christ’s Real Presence is not in our Eucharist even if we believe otherwise. Ultimately, it is a question of faith on which we differ.

Nonetheless, your statement quoted above is overbroad even by Catholic theology. The Orthodox and other Churches which, according to Catholic thought, have preserved the apostolic priesthood also have valid Eucharists (e.g., the Old Catholics and other schismatic groups). Further, even though the Vatican has opined that Anglican orders are invalid for alleged defects in form and intent (Apostolicae Curae), for a number of years now Anglicans have included Old Catholic bishops in the ordination of Anglican bishops so that “problem” is also disappearing with time. (Anglicans do not accept the Catholic teaching on their orders but have included Old Catholics in their ordinations to remove the problem from the Catholic perspective).

 

[dessert]

Sandy what is the catholic mass revealed coming in february?
About a movie?
dessert

 

[AlegreFe]

Sandy what is the catholic mass revealed coming in february?
About a movie?
dessert

Why don’t you join us in this thread?

The webmaster of the Thy Kingdom Come website has joined CAForums and has been posting in that thread. So you will find answers to your question. And perhaps ask other questions in case you think of some.

 

[BabyDoll4]

The actual transformation of the host into Jesus’ body/blood is still a concept foreign to me. I believe in His presence in the host, but beyond that, it is hard for me to grasp.

 

[O.S.Luke]

It’s not just a symbol to me. It is His body and blood.

Hang in there, LadyBug. Christ is present at your Eucharist. I suspect God is bigger than Rome.