B
buffalo
Guest
No God will not repair us inthe afterlife if we discard Him.
For Everyone- Do you think that God really cares what church you attend?
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W
whatevergirl
Guest
ok, think we’re on the same wavelength…I would be very interested in learning more from you about purgatory. I know quite a bit, but not to the extent that your understanding of it has taken you–would you mind pm’ing me some material? Thank you.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (even when interpreted loosely) remains a reason why I could never be a Roman Catholic (or for that matter, belong to any religion that says all people MUST belong to them to be saved.)
In Judaism we believe that all JEWS must remain Jews (hopefully as fully Torah observant Jews) to go to the Olam Ha’Ba, but we would never make that same claim for all people in general. As long as Gentiles follow basic human laws of morality, they are assured a place in the World to Come.
Many people are confused over Judaism’s position: We say that JEWS must remain Jews…we prefer that they be Torah observant, because this assures them a better PLACE in the World to Come as opposed to Jews who were not Torah observant. Even if a Jew is not observant, he is assured a place of some sort in the World to Come, just not as good a place as a Jew who does keep Torah. Its akin to seating at a symphony concert. If you are Torah observant, you get a really good, front row seat. If you are not observant, you end up in 8th row, balcony.
But a Jew who apostasizes and converts to another religion (especially one that engages in idol worship or ascribing partners to God) goes to the Jewish definition of hell (gehinnom). That is one crime for which a Jew cannot be saved in the next life. He has committed one of the worst sins a Jew can commit, even if he did it in sincerity and not for spite, marriage, money, etc
So you see, we don’t make it hard for anyone but Jews.
In Judaism we believe that all JEWS must remain Jews (hopefully as fully Torah observant Jews) to go to the Olam Ha’Ba, but we would never make that same claim for all people in general. As long as Gentiles follow basic human laws of morality, they are assured a place in the World to Come.
Many people are confused over Judaism’s position: We say that JEWS must remain Jews…we prefer that they be Torah observant, because this assures them a better PLACE in the World to Come as opposed to Jews who were not Torah observant. Even if a Jew is not observant, he is assured a place of some sort in the World to Come, just not as good a place as a Jew who does keep Torah. Its akin to seating at a symphony concert. If you are Torah observant, you get a really good, front row seat. If you are not observant, you end up in 8th row, balcony.
But a Jew who apostasizes and converts to another religion (especially one that engages in idol worship or ascribing partners to God) goes to the Jewish definition of hell (gehinnom). That is one crime for which a Jew cannot be saved in the next life. He has committed one of the worst sins a Jew can commit, even if he did it in sincerity and not for spite, marriage, money, etc
So you see, we don’t make it hard for anyone but Jews.
C
Cathdefender
Guest
So what you are saying is that when a Jew converts to Catholicism, believing that Christ is truly the Messiah, that person is condemned to hell for eternity…Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (even when interpreted loosely) remains a reason why I could never be a Roman Catholic (or for that matter, belong to any religion that says all people MUST belong to them to be saved.)
In Judaism we believe that all JEWS must remain Jews (hopefully as fully Torah observant Jews) to go to the Olam Ha’Ba, but we would never make that same claim for all people in general. As long as Gentiles follow basic human laws of morality, they are assured a place in the World to Come.
Many people are confused over Judaism’s position: We say that JEWS must remain Jews…we prefer that they be Torah observant, because this assures them a better PLACE in the World to Come as opposed to Jews who were not Torah observant. Even if a Jew is not observant, he is assured a place of some sort in the World to Come, just not as good a place as a Jew who does keep Torah. Its akin to seating at a symphony concert. If you are Torah observant, you get a really good, front row seat. If you are not observant, you end up in 8th row, balcony.
But a Jew who apostasizes and converts to another religion (especially one that engages in idol worship or ascribing partners to God) goes to the Jewish definition of hell (gehinnom). That is one crime for which a Jew cannot be saved in the next life. He has committed one of the worst sins a Jew can commit, even if he did it in sincerity and not for spite, marriage, money, etc
So you see, we don’t make it hard for anyone but Jews.
Boy that Saint Edith Stein or Saint Benedicta as she is now known, must be burning up for all eternity…how silly…
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Yes that is what Judaism teaches…not unlike the traditional Catholic view that Catholics who apostasize from their religion for another, and die in that state unrepentent, are in the same situation.So what you are saying is that when a Jew converts to Catholicism, believing that Christ is truly the Messiah, that person is condemned to hell for eternity…
Boy that Saint Edith Stein or Saint Benedicta as she is now known, must be burning up for all eternity…how silly…
C
Cathdefender
Guest
So to follow Christ is eternal damnation for Jews? (Need to make sure I hear what you are saying).
H
HashemEchad
Guest
We hold the same view for our members who apostasize without repentence as your religion holds for Catholics who do the same without repentence.
I already said it twice, why do you need me to repeat it? Just reread my posts again.
Why is it ok for your religion to believe that about your ex-members, but not for us to believe it? I notice you did not comment on that.
F
fbl9
Guest
…that is what they beleive cause they believe(Jews) are still following the God revealed religion…but as Catholics we know the full truth. So actually for a Jew to convert means eternal life not death.Kinda like the jack chick trash that unless we as catholics convert to baptists we are condemned. from my understanding of the Faith Jews are actually in a worse postion (in regards to salvation) then any one who has never heard of the Gospel. why?cause Jesus Himself said He had come for the lost sheep of Isreal(sic)
C
Cathdefender
Guest
Yes, thank you and I shall pray for these Jews that they know the truth in Jesus.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Just as I pray for Gentiles to see the light and stop practicing idolatry (those who do practice it, that is.)
C
Cathdefender
Guest
It was the Jews who practiced it long before Jesus was ever born. Remember when Moses went up the mountain, the Jews couldn’t even wait for his return before they again turned to sin AND IDOLATRY. For 40 years it took the Jews to get to the Promised Land because they kept breaking the covenant…boy, those Jews just don’t listen, 2,000 years it’s still the same.Just as I pray for Gentiles to see the light and stop practicing idolatry (those who do practice it, that is.)
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Yes. And that was something God dealt with. The Jews are God’s people, not yours, and they are His to reprimand and discipline for that, as He has done in history.It was the Jews who practiced it long before Jesus was ever born. Remember when Moses went up the mountain, the Jews couldn’t even wait for his return before they again turned to sin AND IDOLATRY. For 40 years it took the Jews to get to the Promised Land because they kept breaking the covenant…boy, those Jews just don’t listen, 2,000 years it’s still the same.
BTW since you like to boast against the Jewish people, I strongly suggest you read Romans chapter 11. Its in your NT, in case you are wondering.
N
Nootmeg
Guest
These posts are starting to sound anti Semitic which bothers me. First of all if you are a Christian you are a descendent of the Jews (not be nationality but by belief). Their story is yours as well. That goes for idolatry as well as the persecution of Jesus.
I
inJESUS
Guest
For Everyone- Do you think that God really cares what church you attend?
Didn’t Jesus say we must be one?
Didn’t Jesus say we must be one?
P
Pug
Guest
Jesus loved the Church and gave himself up for her, to sanctify her, so that she would be spotless and blameless. Also, we are a holy nation. Once we were not a people, but now we are the people of God. Also, we are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.
Church (assembly)
nation
people
body
members
Sounds like we are some kind of a group, yes. Together, we ought to be of one mind.
- Philippians 1:27 …standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
*John 17: [20] "I do not pray for these (My disciples) only, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, [21] that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me. [22] The glory which Thou hast given Me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, [23] I in them and Thou in Me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me and hast loved them even as Thou hast loved Me. *
C
Contarini
Guest
Sure. Jesus became incarnate, died, and rose again to united human beings to God and one another through the Church. The Church is at the center of God’s purposes. Deny this and you deny historic Christianity outright.
Edwin
M
multitude
Guest
***“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me…”
***John 14:6
But… ***“Whoever rejects you rejects me, whoever accepts you accepts me…” *** Luke 10:16
Because … "…if I am delayed, you will know how ppl ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which… is the pillar and foundation of the Truth!" 1 Tim 3:15
Uh huh, He cares alright.
***John 14:6
But… ***“Whoever rejects you rejects me, whoever accepts you accepts me…” *** Luke 10:16
Because … "…if I am delayed, you will know how ppl ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which… is the pillar and foundation of the Truth!" 1 Tim 3:15
Uh huh, He cares alright.
C
Cathdefender
Guest
L
Lilyflower
Guest
I Do think we Catholics and Protestants shall be harshly judged for wasting our precious resources by jostling with each other instead of getting down to the real business to which every Christian is called: 'to take the Good News to un-believers.
M
multitude
Guest
As a former evangelical Protestant, I think it’s just as equally wasteful of resources and time and energy telling the Good News to unbelievers in such a way that some truth is distorted (that works play a part in the salvation process, the point of the Trinity, purgatory, predestination). It might as well be a big lie.
Then again, hold on, we can always be ready to admit we’re wrong about a certain topic when it happens and that we’re still learning as we go along our Christian walks of life.
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