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WatchingMedia

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Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. 👍
 
WatchingMedia said:
Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. 👍
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On a Traditional forum it will be difficult to convince laymen that their unconcecrated hands can even touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone allow themselves into the Sanctuary without proper training to serve at the Altar. It is appropriate for the Priest to read the lesson.

Other than that the sentiment of your post is quite commendable, and you have given me good things to think about. Happy Fathers Day to you.
 
maurin said:
On a Traditional forum it will be difficult to convince laymen that their unconcecrated hands can even touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone allow themselves into the Sanctuary without proper training to serve at the Altar. It is appropriate for the Priest to read the lesson.

Other than that the sentiment of your post is quite commendable, and you have given me good things to think about. Happy Fathers Day to you.
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The bold is mine. If traditionalists think this way, then they are mistaken. Only a priest’s hands are consecrated; but they are not consecrated for the purpose of holding the host. The prayer of consecration speaks about blessing. The priests hands are consecrated because they bless.

Deacons do not have their hands consecrated. However, they are the official ministers of Holy Communion, not the priest. The priest distributes Holy Communion because he is also a deacon. He never ceases to be a deacon when he is ordained to the order of persbyter, just as he never ceases to be a priest when he is ordained to the order of bishop.

I think we owe to people to correct the misconcepition that only consecrated hands may hold the Eucharist. This has never been the teaching of the Church. This was believed by Thomas Aquinas, but was never adopted by the Church, because it would have had to change the rite of ordination of the deacon and consecrate his hands too. It would also have had to change the words to the prayer over the hands. The prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist. On the other hand, the prayer of ordination of a deacon does mention distributing Holy Communion and proclaiming the Gospel as two of his diaconal ministries. That’s the deacon wears a diagonal stole. It once was the towel worn by the original deacons who distributed the Eucharist at the tables in the ancient Church.

Let’s not confuse people by telling them that only consecrated hands can hold the Eucharist. This had never been true in the Universal Catholic Church. In many situations the acolytes also distributed communion, especially to the sick.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
The bold is mine. If traditionalists think this way, then they are mistaken. Only a priest’s hands are consecrated; but they are not consecrated for the purpose of holding the host. The prayer of consecration speaks about blessing. The priests hands are consecrated because they bless.

Deacons do not have their hands consecrated. However, they are the official ministers of Holy Communion, not the priest. The priest distributes Holy Communion because he is also a deacon. He never ceases to be a deacon when he is ordained to the order of persbyter, just as he never ceases to be a priest when he is ordained to the order of bishop.

I think we owe to people to correct the misconcepition that only consecrated hands may hold the Eucharist. This has never been the teaching of the Church. This was believed by Thomas Aquinas, but was never adopted by the Church, because it would have had to change the rite of ordination of the deacon and consecrate his hands too. It would also have had to change the words to the prayer over the hands. The prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist. On the other hand, the prayer of ordination of a deacon does mention distributing Holy Communion and proclaiming the Gospel as two of his diaconal ministries. That’s the deacon wears a diagonal stole. It once was the towel worn by the original deacons who distributed the Eucharist at the tables in the ancient Church.

Let’s not confuse people by telling them that only consecrated hands can hold the Eucharist. This had never been true in the Universal Catholic Church. In many situations the acolytes also distributed communion, especially to the sick.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Enlightening and, well, fraternal as always, Brother. This ought to be a sticky; wouldn’t that save people a lot of time!
 
JReducation said:
The bold is mine. If traditionalists think this way, then they are mistaken. Only a priest’s hands are consecrated; but they are not consecrated for the purpose of holding the host. The prayer of consecration speaks about blessing. The priests hands are consecrated because they bless.

Deacons do not have their hands consecrated. However, they are the official ministers of Holy Communion, not the priest. The priest distributes Holy Communion because he is also a deacon. He never ceases to be a deacon when he is ordained to the order of presbyter, just as he never ceases to be a priest when he is ordained to the order of bishop.

I think we owe to people to correct the misconception that only consecrated hands may hold the Eucharist. This has never been the teaching of the Church. This was believed by Thomas Aquinas, but was never adopted by the Church, because it would have had to change the rite of ordination of the deacon and consecrate his hands too. It would also have had to change the words to the prayer over the hands. The prayer explicitly refers to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist. On the other hand, the prayer of ordination of a deacon does mention distributing Holy Communion and proclaiming the Gospel as two of his diaconal ministries. That’s the deacon wears a diagonal stole. It once was the towel worn by the original deacons who distributed the Eucharist at the tables in the ancient Church.

Let’s not confuse people by telling them that only consecrated hands can hold the Eucharist. This had never been true in the Universal Catholic Church. In many situations the acolytes also distributed communion, especially to the sick.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Click to expand...
Excellent point, Br. JR. Happy Fathers Day weekend to my fellow Dads. I am LEM, Lector, Adult Ed Teacher, RCIA Sponsor and Teacher. I am also in the initial stages of applying to the Permanent Diaconate.
 
JReducation said:
The bold is mine. If traditionalists think this way, then they are mistaken. Only a priest’s hands are consecrated; but they are not consecrated for the purpose of holding the host. The prayer of consecration speaks about blessing. The priests hands are consecrated because they bless.

Deacons do not have their hands consecrated. However, they are the official ministers of Holy Communion, not the priest. The priest distributes Holy Communion because he is also a deacon. He never ceases to be a deacon when he is ordained to the order of persbyter, just as he never ceases to be a priest when he is ordained to the order of bishop.

I think we owe to people to correct the misconcepition that only consecrated hands may hold the Eucharist. This has never been the teaching of the Church. This was believed by Thomas Aquinas, but was never adopted by the Church, because it would have had to change the rite of ordination of the deacon and consecrate his hands too. It would also have had to change the words to the prayer over the hands. The prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist. On the other hand, the prayer of ordination of a deacon does mention distributing Holy Communion and proclaiming the Gospel as two of his diaconal ministries. That’s the deacon wears a diagonal stole. It once was the towel worn by the original deacons who distributed the Eucharist at the tables in the ancient Church.

Let’s not confuse people by telling them that only consecrated hands can hold the Eucharist. This had never been true in the Universal Catholic Church. In many situations the acolytes also distributed communion, especially to the sick.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Click to expand...
I’m not sure you reas Dominicae Cenae by JPII.

Let us not confuse, people, I agree:

The Pope says, "over and above our commitment to the evangelical mission, our greatest commitment consists in exercising this mysterious power over the Body of the Redeemer, and all that is within us should be decisively ordered to this. We should also always remember that to this ministerial power we have been sacramentally consecrated, that we have been chosen from among men “for the good of men.” We especially, the Priests of the Latin Church, whose ordination rite added in the course of centuries the custom of anointing the priestMs hands, should think about this.

"In some countries the practice of receiving CITH has been introduced. This practice has been requested by individual Episcopal Conferences and has received approval of the Apostolic See. However cases of deplorable lack of respect toward the Eucharistic species have been reported, cases which are imputable not only to the individual guilty of such behavioe but also the pastors of the. Church who have not been vigilant regarding the attitude of the faithful towards the Eucharist.

“But one must not forget the primary office of Priests, who have been concecrated by their ordination to represent Christ the Priest: for this reason their hands, like their words and their will, have become the direct instruments of Christ. Through this fact, that is as ministers of the Holy Eucharist, they have a primary responsibility for the sacred species, because it is atotal responsibility: they offer the bread and the wine, they concecrate it, and then distribute the sacred species to those who wish to receive it…How eloquent therefore, even if not of the ancient custom, is the rite of annointing of the hands in our Latin ordination…To touch the sacred sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is aprivelege of the ordained…”

Now JR you are welcome to argue with JPIi, but please don’t confuse anyone with what you wrote above. JPII was Pope. This is his teaching.

Ps, how are you? Long time no see!
 
maurin said:
I’m not sure you reas Dominicae Cenae by JPII.

Let us not confuse, people, I agree:
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And, of course, John Paul also wrote:

Priests and deacons must remember that the service of the table of the Bread of the Lord imposes on them special obligations . . . .
. . .
Deacons can only bring to the altar the offerings of the faithful and, once they have been consecrated by the priest, distribute them.
. . .
To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation.
 
MarkThompson said:
And, of course, John Paul also wrote:

Priests and deacons must remember that the service of the table of the Bread of the Lord imposes on them special obligations . . . .
. . .
Deacons can only bring to the altar the offerings of the faithful and, once they have been consecrated by the priest, distribute them.
. . .
To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained, one which indicates an active participation in the ministry of the Eucharist. It is obvious that the Church can grant this faculty to those who are neither priests nor deacons, as is the case with acolytes in the exercise of their ministry, especially if they are destined for future ordination, or with other lay people who are chosen for this to meet a just need, but always after an adequate preparation.
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the purpose of citing DC was to make clear that the Church, contrary to JR’s statement above, teaches that a Priest@ hands are consecrated for the Eucharist. Lest you forget, JPII made it clear that it is a privelege of the Ordained, and others who are destined for further ordination. That is the rule. The third set is the exception,given for just need. But alas, and to the detriment of the Real Presence, it has become the rule. Contrary to the Pope’s clearly stated wishes.
 
A buddy of mine, upon me congratulating him on becoming a Transitional Deacon, told me of one of his pet peeves; being called a Transitional Deacon. His logic; there is nothing “transitional” about it, because you don’t cease to be a Deacon after becoming a Priest.

As to the question of the OP;
  • I’ve been volunteering at the Youth Group for seven years. Giving talks, being a paternal figure to some, mentor to others. That sort of thing.
  • I currently run the RCIA program at my Church for Youth and Young Adults.
  • Been a part of the music team at Mass for about six years or so.
 
maurin said:
the purpose of citing DC was to make clear that the Church, contrary to JR’s statement above, teaches that a Priest@ hands are consecrated for the Eucharist.
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No, there’s no contradiction. Brother JR said, “The [consecration] prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist.” The hands are consecrated for the Eucharist, but for the purpose of consecrating the Eucharist, not for the mere handling of it. That’s what John Paul said, as well. These statements are perfectly in accord.

And by the way, “the ordained” includes deacons; I couldn’t tell from your remark whether your knew that.
 
I like the initial point “do you care about the salvation of others”. it is hard to think about and even harder to implement the task of witnessing Christ to the world. it is something that all catholics need to address because it seems like a lot of people, myself included, do not truly work at. we need to focus on spreading the Gospel of Christ to non-Christians, and then also to work at evangelizing Christians that are not in full communion with the Church.
 
Perhaps it would have been better to say it will be difficult to convince people on a Traditional forum to become EMHCs.
 
MarkThompson said:
No, there’s no contradiction. Brother JR said, “The [consecration] prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist.” The hands are consecrated for the Eucharist, but for the purpose of consecrating the Eucharist, not for the mere handling of it. That’s what John Paul said, as well. These statements are perfectly in accord.

And by the way, “the ordained” includes deacons; I couldn’t tell from your remark whether your knew that.
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I couldn’t tell from your posts the reason you are glossing over that the privelege of handling the Eucharist is to the ordained (I believe deacons are ordained, no?) Ot those destined to be ordained, and in just cause, others. Or you reason for glossing over that this last group, others–the exception–has become the rule.
 
maurin said:
On a Traditional forum it will be difficult to convince laymen that their unconcecrated hands can even touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone allow themselves into the Sanctuary without proper training to serve at the Altar. It is appropriate for the Priest to read the lesson.

Other than that the sentiment of your post is quite commendable, and you have given me good things to think about. Happy Fathers Day to you.
Click to expand...
False. There have been Atlar boys and Alter men servers for many many years. In fact, remember when they held the pattens (small plates) under your chin ?
When males don’t do their job, women take over - then traditionalists complain.
Cardinal Arenza specifically stated that many Priestly vocations come from Altar boy servers. He knows more than you do.

Although our Pope “recommends” receiving Communion on the tongue, it is permissible to receive Communion in your hands. He knows more than you do.
Eucharistic ministers not only help with Communion distribution at Masses, but also in taking Communion to the sick when/if they have time.
There are not enough Priests to go around.

Yes, Deacons are Ordained and can be married. Find out more on the internet or through your Parish priest. Only a Priest can celebrate Mass.

If you are not doing anything at Mass or at home as a Spirtual leader, you may be lazy, or making up “excuses” which are not valid in the Catholic Church.
Don’t make things up to lead others astray.
The post stands and is 100% in accord with the teachings of the Church. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or **Deacon **(Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. *
 
Watcing Media,

I don’t believe you read my post very clearly if you responded with"false." But judging from the reactions to Dominicae Cenae, it is pretty clear that many focua in on exceptions, and not the rule. And then ignore the ordinary groups such as those who are or destined to be ordained.

On a traditional Forum it will be difficult to convince layme that their unconcecrated hands may touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone enter the Sanctuary without proper training. Focus on proper training.

As I said, your orig. post was commendable with those exceptions. Happy fathers day.
 
WatchingMedia said:
Although our Pope “recommends” receiving Communion on the tongue, it is permissible to receive Communion in your hands. He knows more than you do.
Eucharistic ministers not only help with Communion distribution at Masses, but also in taking Communion to the sick when/if they have time.
There are not enough Priests to go around.
Click to expand...
None of which I’ve ever seen at an EF therefore Traditional Catholics won’t be talked into joining the EMHC ranks.

Perhaps there would be more priests if the distinction between clergy and laity was restored.

Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate on the L&S board.
 
Ockham said:
Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate on the L&S board.
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Probably. Although IIRC the whole point why WatchingMedia is big on this is because he feels that women shouldn’t be around the alter performing roles such as being alter servers or lectors, and the only reason they do is because men aren’t stepping up. Maybe he thought that the TC section of the boards would have a sympathetic ear.

My apologies if I’m mistaken, WM.
 
maurin said:
Watcing Media,

I don’t believe you read my post very clearly if you responded with"false." But judging from the reactions to Dominicae Cenae, it is pretty clear that many focua in on exceptions, and not the rule. And then ignore the ordinary groups such as those who are or destined to be ordained.

On a traditional Forum it will be difficult to convince layme that their unconcecrated hands may touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone enter the Sanctuary without proper training. Focus on proper training.

As I said, your orig. post was commendable with those exceptions. Happy fathers day.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think EMHCs are significantly overused, as I’ve said before on other threads. I thought the merit in Brother JR’s post was in exploding the myth that that priests’ hands are consecrated so that they can touch the Host and that therefore the reason laymen shouldn’t touch the Host is that our hands are unconsecrated. As it turns out, the consecration of the hands has nothing to do with handling the Host.

So if you’d like to argue against overuse of EMHCs (as I would) or against their use altogether (as some would), you must now come up with a different basis than “Unconsecrated hands are not supposed to touch the consecrated Host! The priest is to distribute communion because his hands have been consecrated!”, which is an argument I’ve repeatedly seen made.
 
Melchior said:
Probably. Although IIRC the whole point why WatchingMedia is big on this is because he feels that women shouldn’t be around the alter performing roles such as being alter servers or lectors, and the only reason they do is because men aren’t stepping up. Maybe he thought that the TC section of the boards would have a sympathetic ear.

My apologies if I’m mistaken, WM.
Click to expand...
Ah, did not know that. I’m guessing most Traditional Catholics prefer the priest performing the duties of Lector, Minister of Communion, etc. Once the laity takes on those roles it doesn’t matter the gender although it is still preferable to have altar boys over girls.
 
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