For MEN only !

[IntegraCatholic]

Sorry to continue to take this thread from its purpose. I agree with the original poster insofar as men need to take their faith more seriously and practice it more visibly.

The bold is mine. If traditionalists think this way, then they are mistaken. Only a priest’s hands are consecrated; but they are not consecrated for the purpose of holding the host. The prayer of consecration speaks about blessing. The priests hands are consecrated because they bless.

Due respect, if my memory serves me correctly, this isn’t what St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. Vincent Ferrer, Cajetan, St. Peter Cansius, Peter of Auvergne, Molina, Sanchez, even Suarez (to list a few of hundreds of possible authors, in addition, of course, to the greatest doctor of the Church, whom you already mentioned, St. Thomas Aquinas) say about this. The priests hands are blessed, period. What’s more, I’m not sure what the new rite says, but this is what the traditional rite has:

Consecrare, et sanctificare digneris, Domine, manus istas per istam unctionem, et nostram bene + dictionem.

That doesn’t say only to bless. It simply calls upon God to consecrate and sanctify the hands of the priest. It’s true that he continues (only after the ordinands “Amen,” signifying that he is doing something different here, from the meaning of the word and also when compared to the entire rite whenever a response is called for):

Ut quaecumque benedixerint, benedicantur, et quaecumque consecraverint, consecrentur, et sanctificentur, in nomine Domini nostri Jesu Christi.

This specifies what the priest will be doing with his hands, which are already blessed. Yes, it mentions blessing things, but it also mentions consecrating and sanctifying. This refers, of course, specifically to the Blessed Sacrament. If we consider, furthermore, that every agent acts for an end and according to its nature, it becomes entirely ridiculous for a layman to distribute holy communion. That is not a part of his nature as a layman. The priest is given this special right from Christ ultimately through the apostolic succession and from the particular bishop who ordains him, as a necessary means to fulfill his role as consecrator and sanctifier of the people.

Deacons do not have their hands consecrated. However, they are the official ministers of Holy Communion, not the priest. The priest distributes Holy Communion because he is also a deacon.

This is a dual misunderstanding. First, the deacon is considered an “ordinary minister” of holy Communion in the new code, yes. There could be any number of reasons proposed for why that is the case. The most obvious reason would obviously be that there are too few priests to administer the Sacrament (which makes itself abundantly clear not only by the excessive number of extraordinary ministers used today–even taking away those that are entirely an abuse–but also simply by comparing the priest-to-faithful ratio from, say, 1960 and 1983). A perhaps stricter but more theologically correct interpretation would limit him to being an “ordinary minister” of the chalice alone, now that the faithful have a possibility of receiving from the chalice. This would be in keeping with what the theologians throughout the ages agree is the nature of the deacon. In any case, the statement in canon law is not a metaphysical statement about the nature of a deacon; it is a legal statement. It is the code of canon law, after all. It is obvious that it is not according to his nature to handle directly the Blessed Sacrament. This is much clearer in the traditional rite, where the deacon frequently touches, moves, and carries the ciborium with the Blessed Sacrament but never actually touches the Blessed Sacrament. He may do so in cases of necessity for grave reason, sure, because he still has the indelible character of holy orders, but this would make him the ordinary minister.

The second misunderstanding is that because the deacon may have a right to distribute the Blessed Sacrament (let’s say for the sake of argument, since we both agree on it, that he has the right to carry the Blessed Sacrament in the ciborium) that the priest therefore has this right because he is a deacon. That is not the case, but the opposite, in fact, is true. The deacon has this right insofar as he participates in the priesthood of Christ, which finds its fulfillment in the priest. This becomes clearer when one considers the minor orders that the Church has practiced from her earliest days. Many would perhaps be surprised to hear that a lector (ordained in the traditional rite–the ministry of porter and lector as used in the new rite and the order of lector and acolyte as existed from the early Church are non equivalent, as the holy office decreed under Paul VI) is able to bless the fresh fruit of the earth (fruits and vegetables) and bread, even though he may or may not have holy orders. Still, he participates in some way in the priesthood by his order, even if it’s not through the indelible character of the Sacrament. This makes it even clearer that the priest’s ability to bless does not constitute how his hands are blessed.

Continued…

 

[IntegraCatholic]

Another interesting point is that there have been recorded cases where the pope allowed a brother who had not received even the clerical tonsure (St. Raymond of Pennafort or St. Peter Nolasco, I think) to bless rosaries. This also makes the point that the act of blessing an object or person seems to fall more under the jurisdiction of the Church rather than the nature of holy orders itself. Dogmatic theologians say that the Pope merely has to will something to be blessed (without any external sign or words) for it to be so, and this also favors the position that blessing is merely a prerogative of the jurisdiction of the Church rather than the order. If holy orders were required, it would be impossible for a lector to bless anything (unless he certainly has the character of the Sacrament, which is a possible opinion but yet to be settled by the Church), and we would have to conclude that the Pope acted wrongly and that all the rosaries blessed by that saint were invalidly blessed and were actually guilty of the mortal sin of simulation.

This was believed by Thomas Aquinas…

Score another one for the Dominicans.

It [the Church] would also have had to change the words to the prayer over the hands. The prayer explicitly referst to blessing and consecrating the bread and wine, not to holding the Eucharist. * On the other hand, the prayer of ordination of a deacon does mention distributing Holy Communion and proclaiming the Gospel as two of his diaconal ministries.*

I just re-read through the ordination of a deacon in the traditional rite to make sure. It doesn’t say anything about this. Do you have the words in the new rite that say this? Even if this were the case, it would have to be interpreted as the deacon distributing from the chalice, which he does by right, for he does not have to touch the Blessed Sacrament to do so.

Let’s not confuse people by telling them that only consecrated hands can hold the Eucharist. This had never been true in the Universal Catholic Church. In many situations the acolytes also distributed communion, especially to the sick.

This perhaps may have been the case in the early Church, though we don’t have many sound documents that would prove much of anything during the persecutions. Most theologians say that even for the Viaticum that the obligation to receive holy communion would cease if a layman would have to distribute. There is mixed opinion about what the situation would be for a lower cleric (e.g., an acolyte), and I can’t remember well enouhg to say which position was more probable. Nevertheless, that would not make a rule for the nature of the acolyte or deacon, for they were acting under necessity. No one would disagree that a even layman can under extreme necessity touch the Blessed Sacrament (e.g., if the church is burning down, to rescue the Blessed Sacrament, etc.), though not necessarily to administer the sacrament under any circumstances.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

Sorry… “He may do so in cases of necessity for grave reason, sure, because he still has the indelible character of holy orders, but this would make him the ordinary minister.” That should say, this wouldn’t make him the ordinary minister.

 

[WatchingMedia]

Watcing Media,

I don’t believe you read my post very clearly if you responded with"false." But judging from the reactions to Dominicae Cenae, it is pretty clear that many focua in on exceptions, and not the rule. And then ignore the ordinary groups such as those who are or destined to be ordained.

On a traditional Forum it will be difficult to convince layme that their unconcecrated hands may touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone enter the Sanctuary without proper training. Focus on proper training.

As I said, your orig. post was commendable with those exceptions. Happy fathers day.

Where are you from? Clearly it is not the USA.

The Catholic Church has had Altar Boys/Men since before I was born.
If you are Catholic, (and not from some odd group not in like SSPX not in communion with Rome), you will:

1. follow the Pope (and Magesterium)
2. and the teachings in the CCC 2nd Ed on Faith and Morals,
3. and Canon law
4. and the Roman Missal.

And you will not make up your own rules as you go along.

No one said Altar boys/men are not trained. Or Deacons are not trained. Or Eucharistic Ministers are not trained. What are you thinking !
Are you certain that you are Catholic?
Eucharistic Ministers distribute Communion to help the Priest. If the Magesterium allows you to receive Communion in your hand, what makes you think Eucharistic Ministers can not help ?
Go to the Vatican web site and send us a supporting link for your statements.

Dominicae Cenae WITHOUT taking anything out of context: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_24021980_dominicae-cenae_en.html
My OP stands and is 100% correct in accord with our Pope (Magesterium).

Sounds to me like a few of you are not Catholic and by your discouragement of asking Men to assist in their Parishes - want women to take over. Or you want Men to be excused from responsibilities. Someone will step forward to help.

*Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. *

 

[Bbigam]

None of which I’ve ever seen at an EF therefore Traditional Catholics won’t be talked into joining the EMHC ranks.

Perhaps there would be more priests if the distinction between clergy and laity was restored.

Perhaps this thread would be more appropriate on the L&S board.

The OP does have a good overall point though, about encouraging men to go out and do something positive for the faith and/or as a father. Within the Extraordinary Form men can certainly be ushers, altar servers, or members of the choir, and outside of the liturgy can be catechists and should be faithful, good examples to everyone around them.

On the original topic, I’m about to start being a lector (okay, technically a reader) next month, and I helped out with VBS last week, and intend to help out with other parish functions in the future. I’m not a dad but I hope I’m becoming a good example to the kids I work with and my little siblings.

I also had the great privilege of being one of the canopy-bearers for our Corpus Christi procession! That’s traditional for sure. Our deacon had mentioned the possibility of me eventually being a sacristan (we only have 1 right now) but I don’t know if he’s said anything to Father about it. We don’t really do adult altar servers, and well, nobody would want me in the choir if they heard me sing… I’m not interested in being an EMHC (I think they are greatly overused, though less in my parish than in others), and I’m not ready to be a catechist.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

The Eucharistic Minister is the Priest I hope your not advocating for married priests here!

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, the folks who are only supposed to be used in extraordinary circumstances such as 20,000 people turning up at mass and there only been one priest.

No father should ever become one of these, no unconsecrated hand should ever dare to touch the sacred body and blood of Christ. For a father to do so is to destroy the sense of the sacredness of the blessed sacrament and of the hands of the priest in the souls of his children, and in doing so undermine their faith.

"Article 3. Whether dispensing of this sacrament belongs to a priest alone?

The dispensing of Christ’s body belongs to the priest for three reasons. First, because, as was said above (Article 1), he consecrates as in the person of Christ. But as Christ consecrated His body at the supper, so also He gave it to others to be partaken of by them. Accordingly, as the consecration of Christ’s body belongs to the priest, so likewise does the dispensing belong to him. Secondly, because the priest is the appointed intermediary between God and the people; hence as it belongs to him to offer the people’s gifts to God, so it belongs to him to deliver consecrated gifts to the people. Thirdly, because out of reverence towards this sacrament, nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament. Hence it is not lawful for anyone else to touch it except from necessity, for instance, if it were to fall upon the ground, or else in some other case of urgency. " St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica III-82-Art. 3

 

[maurin]

It is very clear that you neither have comprehended my post nor know what you are talking about as far as “in communion with Rome”. The excommunication of the
Bishops was lifted a while ago now. I believe what you mean is that the SSPX has an irregular status. That is the reality even if you wish it were not so.

You are free to address all the issues you pretend I raised, but it is clear to anyone who is able to read and comprehend that it is you who has pretended they were raised.

Remember the PS commercials from the seventies? Reading really is fundamental. And it is nice to share!

Where are you from? Clearly it is not the USA.

The Catholic Church has had Altar Boys/Men since before I was born.
If you are Catholic, (and not from some odd group not in like SSPX not in communion with Rome), you will:

1. follow the Pope (and Magesterium)
2. and the teachings in the CCC 2nd Ed on Faith and Morals,
3. and Canon law
4. and the Roman Missal.

And you will not make up your own rules as you go along.

No one said Altar boys/men are not trained. Or Deacons are not trained. Or Eucharistic Ministers are not trained. What are you thinking !
Are you certain that you are Catholic?
Eucharistic Ministers distribute Communion to help the Priest. If the Magesterium allows you to receive Communion in your hand, what makes you think Eucharistic Ministers can not help ?
Go to the Vatican web site and send us a supporting link for your statements.

Dominicae Cenae WITHOUT taking anything out of context: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_24021980_dominicae-cenae_en.html
My OP stands and is 100% correct in accord with our Pope (Magesterium).

Sounds to me like a few of you are not Catholic and by your discouragement of asking Men to assist in their Parishes - want women to take over. Or you want Men to be excused from responsibilities. Someone will step forward to help.

*Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. *

 

[Bbigam]

No father should ever become one of these, no unconsecrated hand should ever dare to touch the sacred body and blood of Christ. For a father to do so is to destroy the sense of the sacredness of the blessed sacrament and of the hands of the priest in the souls of his children, and in doing so undermine their faith.

While I would prefer to have no EMHCs at least within the context of the Mass, and have managed to receive the Host only from priests so far (and on the tongue)… the fact is that Holy Mother Church does allow for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. Of course, they are supposed to be used in extraordinary circumstances, not every day and in huge teams… but they aren’t banned. I think your comments are a little extreme although I agree with the general principle. I really don’t think a father who serves as an EMHC (or just receives Communion in the hand) is necessarily “destroying the sense of sacredness” and “undermining their faith.” Although it is extremely important to show reverence and I think receiving on the tongue from the priest (and even while kneeling, if possible) is a great way to do that.

 

[maurin]

Oh, I think EMHCs are significantly overused, as I’ve said before on other threads. I thought the merit in Brother JR’s post was in exploding the myth that that priests’ hands are consecrated so that they can touch the Host and that therefore the reason laymen shouldn’t touch the Host is that our hands are unconsecrated. As it turns out, the consecration of the hands has nothing to do with handling the Host.

So if you’d like to argue against overuse of EMHCs (as I would) or against their use altogether (as some would), you must now come up with a different basis than “Unconsecrated hands are not supposed to touch the consecrated Host! The priest is to distribute communion because his hands have been consecrated!”, which is an argument I’ve repeatedly seen made.

Youmade me chuckle.

You are also welcome to ignore Pope JPII’s clear words: to touch the Host ande to distribute it is a privelege of the ordained. Paul VI had the legal right to change it, as did JPII to uphold it. The moral right to do so is what is debated.

 

[BostonSteamer]

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?

Do you care about your limited life on earth, the one you actually have now? Would you be willing to compromise it for the promise of a second life which you may not actually get? You can’t protest after your dead to those who failed to deliver on their promise of eternal bliss.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

My thoughts exactly…is this post purposely inflammatory or does this poster just not know any better???

0

On a Traditional forum it will be difficult to convince laymen that their unconcecrated hands can even touch the Blessed Sacrament, let alone allow themselves into the Sanctuary without proper training to serve at the Altar. It is appropriate for the Priest to read the lesson.

.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

In one ear…out the other faster…

False. There have been Atlar boys and Alter men servers for many many years. In fact, remember when they held the pattens (small plates) under your chin ?
When males don’t do their job, women take over - then traditionalists complain.
Cardinal Arenza specifically stated that many Priestly vocations come from Altar boy servers. He knows more than you do.

Although our Pope “recommends” receiving Communion on the tongue, it is permissible to receive Communion in your hands. He knows more than you do.
Eucharistic ministers not only help with Communion distribution at Masses, but also in taking Communion to the sick when/if they have time.
There are not enough Priests to go around.

Yes, Deacons are Ordained and can be married. Find out more on the internet or through your Parish priest. Only a Priest can celebrate Mass.

If you are not doing anything at Mass or at home as a Spirtual leader, you may be lazy, or making up “excuses” which are not valid in the Catholic Church.
Don’t make things up to lead others astray.
The post stands and is 100% in accord with the teachings of the Church. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server*, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or **Deacon **(Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader.

 

[Dum_Spiro_Spero]

Your statements regarding the SSPX are offensive and they show your ignorance to the situation…let me give you some advice. If you are going to speak about a subject, please learn about it first, before you speak about it, so you do not appear so…well, I’m not going to say it. God Bless

Where are you from? Clearly it is not the USA.

The Catholic Church has had Altar Boys/Men since before I was born.
If you are Catholic, (and not from some odd group not in like SSPX not in communion with Rome), you will:

1. follow the Pope (and Magesterium)
2. and the teachings in the CCC 2nd Ed on Faith and Morals,
3. and Canon law
4. and the Roman Missal.

And you will not make up your own rules as you go along.

No one said Altar boys/men are not trained. Or Deacons are not trained. Or Eucharistic Ministers are not trained. What are you thinking !
Are you certain that you are Catholic?
Eucharistic Ministers distribute Communion to help the Priest. If the Magesterium allows you to receive Communion in your hand, what makes you think Eucharistic Ministers can not help ?
Go to the Vatican web site and send us a supporting link for your statements.

Dominicae Cenae WITHOUT taking anything out of context: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_24021980_dominicae-cenae_en.html
My OP stands and is 100% correct in accord with our Pope (Magesterium).

Sounds to me like a few of you are not Catholic and by your discouragement of asking Men to assist in their Parishes - want women to take over. Or you want Men to be excused from responsibilities. Someone will step forward to help.

*Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader. *

 

[WatchingMedia]

Do you care about your limited life on earth, the one you actually have now? Would you be willing to compromise it for the promise of a second life which you may not actually get? You can’t protest after your dead to those who failed to deliver on their promise of eternal bliss.

If God’s will, I would not have any problem leaving this earth in a heartbeat.
I’m not making any compromises with my life on earth. My principles, morals and ethics have never been stronger.
I’m very happy following the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I was away from the Church for 25 years. That’s when I was just doing my own thing. That was not happy in comparison to now. I’m not perfect, but I try.

I feel sorry for Agnostics and Atheists.

 

[WatchingMedia]

Your statements regarding the SSPX are offensive and they show your ignorance to the situation…let me give you some advice. If you are going to speak about a subject, please learn about it first, before you speak about it, so you do not appear so…well, I’m not going to say it. God Bless

I did study SSPX - just for information. Check this out from the Vatican site and see if I missed something.

I have no idea if our Pope, and SSPX folks will be able to reconcile or not.
l’ll leave SSXP reconciliation to the Pope.

This is from Vatican web site.
vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2009/documents/rc_seg-st_20090204_note-decree-cbishops_en.html
"The remission of the excommunication has freed the four bishops from a very serious canonical penalty, but it has not changed the juridical status of the Society of Saint Pius X, which presently does not enjoy any canonical recognition by the Catholic Church."

Please let us all know when/if this changes with a direct URL to the Vatican web site.
.
In reference to other posts - "the task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted “SOLEY” to the Magisterium of the Church, that is to the Pope and to the Bishops in communion with him. CCC 2nd Ed. #100.
You and I don’t qualify.

If the above web site does not work for info on SSPX, go to vatican.va/phome_en.htm
and search “Society of Saint Pius X”.

 

[mick321]

Some things to think about, and then act upon.

Do you care about your eternal life, as well as your limited life on earth?
Do you care about the eternal life of your Family Members, Friends and Neighbors?
Is your time limited?

Are you Volunteering at your Church for Saturday or Sunday Mass for - Altar Server, Cantor, Eucharistic Minister, Lector, Usher, Greeter?
It’s a great way to do your duty of service and set an example for others, when your time is limited. (You are already at Mass anyway.)
If you have more time - Choir, RCIA teacher, or Deacon (Holy Orders) is something to consider.

For you Fathers, Step-fathers, and Foster Fathers, are you setting the proper leadership example for your own Family regarding taking your family to - weekly Mass, monthly Confession, daily family Rosaries, and evening bedtime prayers?

Your living example will influence your Sons’ and Daughters’ lives more than you can imagine. It will not only last your lifetime, but be passed on through your Children to your Grandchildren.

Depending on the age of your Sons, you could be Altar servers together.

Happy Father’s Day.
You have a most important and holy role in the Family.
Please live up to your responsibility as the head of the Family - Protector and Spirtual Leader.

One of the best ways for faithful Catholic adults to contribute to our Holy Church is to promote and advance the use of the Extraordinary Form of the Classical Roman Liturgy within their parish, diocese and beyond. Support priests and religious who are willing and able to assist in this effort. Develop resources to help priests and faithful who wish to learn how to offer and assist in the EF. As the Traditional Latin Mass gains acceptance, the novelties mentioned above will lose favor and - by the grace of God - disappear from this Earth.

Be vigilant.

The Douay-Rheims Bible::
drbo.org/

The Catechism of the Council of Trent::
angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/7087/catechism-of-the-council-of-trent

The 1962 Roman Catholic Daily Missal::
angeluspress.org/oscatalog/item/8043/1962-roman-catholic-daily-missal

Accept no substitutes.
.

 

[Bbigam]

My thoughts exactly…is this post purposely inflammatory or does this poster just not know any better???

0

Why can’t we focus on the overall topic of the OP - encouraging men to be faithful examples and leaders and, well, men especially for Father’s Day - rather than focusing on nitpicking parts of his post? There’s nothing in his post that suggests he’s intentionally being inflammatory and the point of his post is great.

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

Why can’t we focus on the overall topic of the OP - encouraging men to be faithful examples and leaders and, well, men especially for Father’s Day - rather than focusing on nitpicking parts of his post? There’s nothing in his post that suggests he’s intentionally being inflammatory and the point of his post is great.

Ah I see why can’t we just ignore the parts we disagree with is that what you are saying? That is how we ended up in the mess we are in right now.

 

[Ockham]

All that was pointed out to the OP was that in a Traditional Catholic forum people aren’t going to be talked into becoming EMHCs. The person who brought this up was very charitable and said something like ‘other than that good post’. The OP then threw a hissy fit accusing that person of not being Catholic.

If you think someone is not Catholic because they don’t like EMHCs then it would be prudent to stay off the Traditional board. You should also consider whether this is a breach of the Eight Commandment.

Someone else pointed out that the OP is known for misogynist attitudes like “no women in the Santuary”. Most Traditionalist would counter with “no laity in the Sanctuary”. Such sexist attitudes don’t contribute to productive discussions.

 

[Bbigam]

Ah I see why can’t we just ignore the parts we disagree with is that what you are saying? That is how we ended up in the mess we are in right now.

No, of course I’m not saying that. I’m saying don’t focus exclusively on the parts we disagree with. There have already been people saying things like “you won’t convince Traditional Catholics to be EMHCs, but otherwise good post and here are my additional on-topic comments.” No problem with that, very appropriate. But often people on this sub-forum pick out the one thing that they disagree with and spend all their time complaining about that one aspect, ignoring the overall topic of the OP, and even attributing bad intentions to the OP.

All that was pointed out to the OP was that in a Traditional Catholic forum people aren’t going to be talked into becoming EMHCs. The person who brought this up was very charitable and said something like ‘other than that good post’. The OP then threw a hissy fit accusing that person of not being Catholic.

If you think someone is not Catholic because they don’t like EMHCs then it would be prudent to stay off the Traditional board. You should also consider whether this is a breach of the Eight Commandment.

Someone else pointed out that the OP is known for misogynist attitudes like “no women in the Santuary”. Most Traditionalist would counter with “no laity in the Sanctuary”. Such sexist attitudes don’t contribute to productive discussions.

Good post. Sometimes it seems as if it’s quite dangerous to post at all on this sub-forum unless you fit a very narrow definition of Traditionalist. This thread is a case in point; the OP is a very good post talking about Father’s Day and being a good example, but GASP! he mentioned EMHCs so he’s obviously coming in here to stir up trouble (and by implication must be some kind of crazy progressivist liberal nut). Not that I agree with his response accusing others of not being Catholic for gently reminding him that people here won’t be EMHCs… We could use a lot more charity on both sides.