For Mormons

[Javl]

Thank you, Javi.

The thing is, just as Catholics can have all manner of different political and social views and still be seen quite differently in terms of religion, (which is why I brought Hannity up…) the same thing goes for Mormons.

As do Catholics, Mormons come in all political flavors. Shoot, if I’m willing to accept Harry Reid as a faithful LDS as well as Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney, all of whom have political beliefs that vary greatly from one another, then the question the OP poses is …irrelevent. Politics is not religion. Religion is not politics.

…and my mention of Hannity simply illustrates that.

Or perhaps it does not. The responses to my mentioning his name seem to indicate that, at least in this forum, one’s political opinions ARE covered by ‘what you are supposed to believe’ religiously. If that’s so, I can understand the thinking behind the OP…

the problem is, though, that whether individual members of the CoJCoLDS don’t think that Mormons should have this political belief, or that one…that attitude also varies with the person’s own political beliefs. There are quite a few Mormons who really dislike Reid’s politics, and think that he is a ‘lousy Mormon’ there by. There are also quite a few who approve of them. The same thing goes for Romney and Beck.

As far as the CHURCH itself goes, however,…all three men, as far as I know, have Temple Recommends. That would seem to tell you that “MORMONS” (as in,…what the church itself teaches and does) doesn’t give a hoot what your politics are. Individual Mormons?

Sure…but again, their attitudes vary according to their own political beliefs and ideas of right and wrong governance.

Although I reject Mormonism as false, as you know, I do think that politics should not be a part of your ( or my ) beliefs. Politics and religion DO NOT mix, unless of course we are discussing Islam where one is interchangeable with, and depends upon, the other ( Sharia Law ),

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Javl]

I am being fair. The thread was about Glenn Beck. Diana does what she always does…deflects.

In all my dealings with Diana, she has never avoided answering any of my questions, or discarded any of my comments. Whenever a difficult question has been asked of her she says she will check and return with an answer, which she always does. Also we have locked horns in the past and I have tried to get her to understand and accept the Catholic truth ( to no avail ). I must say that she is honest and truthful and quite firm in her beliefs ( as we Catholics are in ours ). I respect and admire her for her stance, as we all should. As for other LDS on this thread and forums, the jury is still out.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[richsmith]

I think Glen Beck failed to distinguish or even understand the different meanings applied to “social justice”.

Social justice as taught in most religions encourages “giving” to the poor. An act of generosity and free will. Social justice as used by the Goverment means using taxes (forced giving) to redistribute wealth. Some call this socialism.

 

[SirThomasMore]

In all my dealings with Diana, she has never avoided answering any of my questions, or discarded any of my comments.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

I’ve wondered if Beck has a temple recommend. With the hypocrisy that comes out of Beck I can’t see who he could get one. Then again, he’s conservative and most LDS are conservative. And he is a successful TV and radio host. Perhaps he’s destined to be an apostle in the church. He can join all the other successful business men in the quorum of the twelve.

 

[Ahimsa]

I’ve wondered if Beck has a temple recommend. With the hypocrisy that comes out of Beck I can’t see who he could get one. Then again, he’s conservative and most LDS are conservative. And he is a successful TV and radio host. Perhaps he’s destined to be an apostle in the church. He can join all the other successful business men in the quorum of the twelve.

I take it that you are not Mormon.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

I take it that you are not Mormon.

Technically I am LDS unless they’ve already excommunicated me. I suppose after my next talk with the Bishop I will be out. After all the things I’ve said against the church on this board, yeah I’m probably out.

 

[VetA]

Technically I am LDS unless they’ve already excommunicated me. I suppose after my next talk with the Bishop I will be out. After all the things I’ve said against the church on this board, yeah I’m probably out.

is what you have said only against the Mormons or all religion?

btw what is a temple recommend?

 

[dianaiad]

I think Glen Beck failed to distinguish or even understand the different meanings applied to “social justice”.

Social justice as taught in most religions encourages “giving” to the poor. An act of generosity and free will. Social justice as used by the Goverment means using taxes (forced giving) to redistribute wealth. Some call this socialism.

I see Glen Beck maybe…every other week or so. My parents are religious about watching him (pun intended.) I will say that the last time I saw his program (yesterday? The day before? I forget…) he had a panel of religious experts on who dealt with this very concept of ‘social justice’ as defined by religion (specifically Catholicism…one of those religious experts was a priest who teaches at Princeton) vs. ‘social justice’ as defined by the non-religious left. Judging from that conversation, I think Beck ‘gets’ the difference just fine. I believe that the quote from him, paraphrased since I don’t have an exact word for word memory of it, is this:

“If Jesus tells you to give all your money and goods away, go do it. If Jesus tells you to go build something for someone else, go do it.” He then went on to say that having the government simply take your money and give it to people it thinks needs it more than you do is not ‘social justice.’ He doesn’t feel charitable on April 15th.

Y’see, Jesus told US to be charitable and just. You. Me. WE are to give of our selves, our wealth and our time. WE are to be ‘socially just.’ Our choices. We aren’t supposed to be socially just with other people’s money.

 

[dianaiad]

I’ve wondered if Beck has a temple recommend. With the hypocrisy that comes out of Beck I can’t see who he could get one. Then again, he’s conservative and most LDS are conservative. And he is a successful TV and radio host. Perhaps he’s destined to be an apostle in the church. He can join all the other successful business men in the quorum of the twelve.

Actually, Beck is a libertarian–one who leans right. Come to think of it, me too. So…I fail to see any hypocrisy out of the man, unlike, say, the Gores of the world. Beck does practice what he preaches, y’know.

 

[dianaiad]

is what you have said only against the Mormons or all religion?

btw what is a temple recommend?

Mormons have Temples that are accessible only to members of the church who abide by certain standards: they must be full tithe payers, observe the Word of Wisdom (abstain from alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea), live chaste lives and be ‘upright’ with their neighbors. We have yearly interviews with our Bishop (compare to the pastor or priest in charge of a single congregation) and our Stake President (compare to a Catholic Bishop). We are asked if we live up to those standards, and when we say yes, we are given a “Temple Recommend” which allows us to enter the Temples.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

is what you have said only against the Mormons or all religion?

btw what is a temple recommend?

So far only against the LDS church because I’m upset with it.

 

[Ahimsa]

So far only against the LDS church because I’m upset with it.

Upset with doctrine, or upset with the practices of the members?

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Upset with doctrine, or upset with the practices of the members?

Upset it’s a 110% focused on family. Singles are on the outside looking in. It’s not a place for singles. If a single woman (who wants to stay unmarried) in her 30’s visits the church and decides to join, but stay unmarried, she will always be on the outside looking in.

I just got a call tonight from on of the really nice guys in the ward. His wife wanted me to help teach Primary or something. I told him one problem I have with the church - it’s for married couples and singles are on the outside looking in. He said he knows it’s tough because his mom got divorced when he was young and went through the same thing, feeling like there was no place for her. Yeah, that’s my point!

If this is the “true” church then you would think both married couples and singles would be happy. You would think those with children and those that are childless would be happy.

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

Upset it’s a 110% focused on family. Singles are on the outside looking in. It’s not a place for singles. If a single woman (who wants to stay unmarried) in her 30’s visits the church and decides to join, but stay unmarried, she will always be on the outside looking in.

I just got a call tonight from on of the really nice guys in the ward. His wife wanted me to help teach Primary or something. I told him one problem I have with the church - it’s for married couples and singles are on the outside looking in. He said he knows it’s tough because his mom got divorced when he was young and went through the same thing, feeling like there was no place for her. Yeah, that’s my point!

If this is the “true” church then you would think both married couples and singles would be happy. You would think those with children and those that are childless would be happy.

This is one of the main differences between Mormonism and Catholicism. In Catholicism, you do not need to be married to receive eternal life. In Mormonism, one cannot receive eternal life (i.e. exaltation) unless they are [eternally] married.

 

[SirThomasMore]

a temple recommend is what you need to go to the temple. And you need to go to the temple if you want to go to the highest level of heaven. You need to buy your temple recommend. If you are not a tithe payer, you do not get the recommend, ergo, you do not go to heaven.

As a Mormon, you must buy your way to heaven.

 

[dianaiad]

Upset it’s a 110% focused on family. Singles are on the outside looking in. It’s not a place for singles. If a single woman (who wants to stay unmarried) in her 30’s visits the church and decides to join, but stay unmarried, she will always be on the outside looking in.

I just got a call tonight from on of the really nice guys in the ward. His wife wanted me to help teach Primary or something. I told him one problem I have with the church - it’s for married couples and singles are on the outside looking in. He said he knows it’s tough because his mom got divorced when he was young and went through the same thing, feeling like there was no place for her. Yeah, that’s my point!

If this is the “true” church then you would think both married couples and singles would be happy. You would think those with children and those that are childless would be happy.

I will admit that it’s a problem; my youngest daughters are singles…and in UTAH. However, we do have singles wards, and while this church is very family oriented, the doctrine does not change for married folks over single folks. Your opportunities for service do not change. You are not banned from Relief Society or Priesthood meeting because you are single. You are not banned from Temple work because you are single.

The BIGGEST problem for single women in the church is that, no matter where you look, outside or in, there aren’t enough righteous men.

 

[dianaiad]

This is one of the main differences between Mormonism and Catholicism. In Catholicism, you do not need to be married to receive eternal life. In Mormonism, one cannot receive eternal life (i.e. exaltation) unless they are [eternally] married.

In a way, that’s true. However, we are also promised that if we keep the faith, that we will BE married. If not now, then someday. There is no pressing theological reason to ‘settle’ for something ‘lesser’ just to get married.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

I will admit that it’s a problem;

The “True” church has a problem? How can that be? Perhaps something should be changed?

I’ll admit here something I’ve not told anybody before except one person I think - after I was baptized and given the Aaronic priesthood I had a talk with the Bishop and he said my goal should be, in one year visiting the temple. He also stressed tithing ten percent and said it’s important to get the Melchizedek priesthood. I didn’t think much of it at the time because I believe in tithing and assumed he was having problems with ward members not tithing. But looking back, I do think think it was odd he was stress tithing more than anything else in our talk, and tithing was stressed more than anything else in our talk. Actually, it was 99.9 percent of the talk. Looking back I think what he was actually saying was - if I want the Melchizedek priesthood I better be tithing. I think better words from him would have been - if I want the Melchizedek priesthood I should act more like Christ and and exercise faith, hope, and charity.

 

[GrapeStomper]

On July 2 I visited this forum and posted a well though out response to some glib comment made by the ‘resident mormon’ on this forum who goes by the name “dianaiad”
It took effort and time to write and I don’t believe it was either offensive or off-topic, yet it was not published. I believe the ‘censor’ on this board might have tended to construe my words in a VERY NARROW manner, therefore deleting the post rather than risking -God forbid!- the mormons who show up here to explain to us, lesser Catholic beings, the reasoned and logical ways of their beliefs to be in any way whatsoever offended.

This smacks of appeasement and obsequiousness, not much different than the behavior the American media shows the muhammadans by kow-towing to them on every occasion so as to not offend them in any possible way which might bring their wrath and destructiveness. In this case any perceived or real offense the mormons might take at the words written on the CAF forums might not bring up destructive behavior -they happen to be a bit more civilized than the muslims- but, horror or horrors, it might drive them away, which would be detrimental to the two-way proselitizing number mormons intend to do on Catholics and vice-versa. Am I wrong?

*The initial question was:
Q – VetA: how do Mormons view the controversial political commentator Glenn Beck?
is he like a ‘liberal’ or ‘traditionalist’ are his views held by most other Mormons or is he a ‘black sheep’?

A – dianaiad: Well, that depends upon whether the Mormon is a liberal or a conservative. You may as easily ask how Mormons view Harry Reid. *

The subject at hand happens to be something to the effect of ‘what do mormons think of Glenn Beck’ and I did answer to that saying that I know the mormon culture from up-close and in a quarter of a century living among them it is obvious that whatever serves the purposes of the ‘first presidency’ and the religion which is forever trying to find justification and legitimacy for their beliefs, is as welcome as the sight of water to someone lost in the Sahara.

a) Beck is not only verbally gifted, he is rich (imagine his tithing as revenue), and can command an enormous following but he is also a poster-boy for the aims of mormonism: a Catholic convert, though technically only a CINO, an erzats latter day prophet completely in tune with the present mood of the country, and most important, he happens to be the embodiment of a long-running ‘prophecy’ among mormons to the effect that at some point the American Constitution would be in trouble and a mormon would rise up to ‘save the country.’ I would have thought this honor was reserved for someone like Mitt Romney who is viewed as the ‘prince charming’ of mormondom set to capture the presidency after obama’s inglorious exit, BUT, in whichever way the prophecy is realized it would be nothing less than pure gravy to their church.
Further, Beck is a repentant sinner who’s given up demon alcohol, and as of late has taken to promoting on his show several strictly mormon concepts such as ‘the apostasy,’ ‘restoration’ and the lessons he hears on his ward (alas, he has yet to expel curse words from his vocabulary, but when you’re as successful as he is…!)

b) Reid on the other hand may appear heterodox, yet he is powerful, famous and influential, all qualities in high demand and appreciation in mormon first presidency circles. The church has never had solid dogma; in fact dogma is developed as necessity and expeditious need demand. So long as Reid does not openly contradict or defy the hierarchy his notoriety is welcome.

Mormons are fond of exalting their famous members. They think the more they have the more attractive it makes it for others to convert. On the whole, they prefer Beck’s philosophy and help, but Reid is a bonus.

These forums are conceivably a vehicle to discuss issues from every perspective. So long as they are not overtly offensive or ignore the rules of the game, why does an individual using his/her own biases have the unilateral authority to decide whether they are ACTUALLY injurious and offensive, or just in his/her personal view inadequate? This is nothing more than personally biased censorship!