For or Against Live Action??

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dje101

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Hey people,

I hope this is in the right place on CAF. I was wondering what people’s opinions are on Live Action and their strategies of getting Planned Parenthood to admit to the heinous and deceitful ways of doing “business”.

In case you haven’t heard, Live Action went to a PP under the guise of pimps, saying that they have a sex trafficking ring. The PP manager was all to willing to help without any concern for the young girls involved (in their late teens.)

LA has been accused of breaking their own rules of Christianity laid down in the 10 Commandments, that we shall not lie. Some people seem to be in support of LA and their efforts, others are against their strategies no matter what good they do.

What is your opinion? Here is the video they they recorded at the PP…

youtube.com/user/LiveActionFilms
 
This is tricky for me on two counts. First, that these ‘sting tactics’ are commonly used, and accepted by society, for law enforcement officials, undercover news shows (To Catch Predator), etc. Sometimes it is necessary to catch someone in a criminal act. That isn’t to say it is okay to break the law, but misrepresentations for the specific purposes of confrontation and stopping a certain act seem to be okay.

Secondly, and I don’t know if this is splitting hairs, but the Commandment is that we shall not bear false witness against our neighbors. So, people who accused their female neighbors as being witches because they didn’t like her hair cut is breaking the commandment. Now, I know lying is a sin, although I believe it can be either venial or mortal, depending on the weight of what is being said and the consequences. Compare this with the evil and lies perpetrated by Planned Parenthood and it is dust versus a dune.

Still, we are taught to live lives of honesty. I don’t know the moral implications of all of this, and as always, I submit myself to the teachings and will of the Church. For now, all I can say is I wouldn’t do one purposely, but I pray for their success!
 
This is a tricky one. I think the positive thing from Live Action’s efforts is that they are shedding light on how despicable planned parenthood is…however, they are dragging themselves down into sin in the process. I do tend to believe that LA is violating Christian morality by lying and posing as pimps/prostitutes in these circumstances. I would consider LA’s behavior to be the lesser of two evils, but I strongly believe that God doesn’t want His children falling into sin to point out the sin of others.

It’s like when Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But, that’s just my opinion.

Peace and blessings,
Julie
 
dje101 said:
Hey people,

I hope this is in the right place on CAF. I was wondering what people’s opinions are on Live Action and their strategies of getting Planned Parenthood to admit to the heinous and deceitful ways of doing “business”.

In case you haven’t heard, Live Action went to a PP under the guise of pimps, saying that they have a sex trafficking ring. The PP manager was all to willing to help without any concern for the young girls involved (in their late teens.)

LA has been accused of breaking their own rules of Christianity laid down in the 10 Commandments, that we shall not lie. Some people seem to be in support of LA and their efforts, others are against their strategies no matter what good they do.

What is your opinion? Here is the video they they recorded at the PP…

youtube.com/user/LiveActionFilms
Click to expand...
I do not agree with what they are doing. It is extreme in my opinion. I think this kind of sting should be left to the proper authorities or they should have submitted their knowledge for proper disposition by properly constituted authorities.

They are diverting attention, instead of discussing leading young girls away from prostitution of PP, they are instead re-focusing the discussion or debate to themselves and their tactics.

I think they should have prayed for proper guidance, and adopted a more Christ-like approach, that way, their actions would have had the aura of more respectability, love and concern and charitableness.
 
pablope said:
They are diverting attention, instead of discussing leading young girls away from prostitution of PP, they are instead re-focusing the discussion or debate to themselves and their tactics.

I think they should have prayed for proper guidance, and adopted a more Christ-like approach, that way, their actions would have had the aura of more respectability, love and concern and charitableness.
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I agree. Sin always has negative consequences…no matter how “good” a person’s intentions are. In this case, the negative consequence is, like you said, they are bringing negative attention to their tactics and diverting attention away from the real issue. I just don’t think Christ would be proud or approving of such methods.

Peace and blessings,
Julie
 
I support them 100%. Nobody else was going to step up and expose Planned Parenthood, certainly not the “proper authorities.” In the case of the abortionist who was recently charged with seven (or was it eight?) counts of murder, the authorities had neglected to inspect his clinic and investigate charges for YEARS.

Live Action has broken no laws and has probably been the single most important factor threatening the federal funding of Planned Parenthood. I thank God for them, and I would happily donate quite a bit if I could afford it.
 
This is a case where I kind of secretly cheer them on. Yes, technically, they are probably violating a moral law. I look at this in the same way that I would look at an undercover agent in the middle of a war, and that is precisely what this is. By its very nature, undercover work must use deception. Where that falls in the area of morality is a good question.
 
pablope said:
I do not agree with what they are doing. It is extreme in my opinion. I think this kind of sting should be left to the proper authorities or they should have submitted their knowledge for proper disposition by properly constituted authorities.
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Many people have said that LA is doing what the proper officials SHOULD HAVE been doing yet failed to do.
They are diverting attention, instead of discussing leading young girls away from prostitution of PP, they are instead re-focusing the discussion or debate to themselves and their tactics.
Click to expand...
Not completely. This skit done by LA had provoked Congress to consider de-funding PP. It seems that they may have succeeded.
I think they should have prayed for proper guidance, and adopted a more Christ-like approach, that way, their actions would have had the aura of more respectability, love and concern and charitableness.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying your wrong, I respect your opinion. 😃 I’m just pointing out what I’ve heard others say.
 
It appears we can all agree that abortion is a grave and moral wrong, and Planned Parenthood is leading the pack among the most dishonest, most despicable, and most immoral of all industries concerned about women’s rights.

That being said, I think we can also agree that Live Action has shown us things that the investigators are overlooking and politicians are turning a blind eye to as long as PP and other such groups provide major campaign financing. When everyone would rather pretend it is okay, and let those groups be to themselves, you get cases like that in Philadelphia. Live Action is taking a stand against these people, and their cause is the most noble of them.

I think the gray area is the tactics used. I wouldn’t necessarily say they could/should be doing other things, such as counseling, providing information, etc. I’m sure they do that as well, but that is also not the focus of their group (seemingly). It appears that their mission is to expose the lies and corruption in this industry of death and deception. Now, I don’t know how I feel about the methods used (I’m leaving that up to the Church), but I sure am pleased with the results so far and hope Planned Parenthood continues to be revealed for what it is.
 
Last I heard the commandment was “thou shalt not BEAR FALSE WITNESS” this differs from lying. Bearing false witness would be if they went and recorded sessions and edited the video to “prove” that there was sinister behavior.

Weither lying is right according to the catechism is a different story, but it is NOT expressly forbidden in the commandments.
 
I support them 100%.

I own a business and realize the importance of public opinion, government funding, marketing, profit and loss.

Planned Parenthood is in the killing business - the killing of human beings.
 
purplesunshine said:
Last I heard the commandment was “thou shalt not BEAR FALSE WITNESS” this differs from lying. Bearing false witness would be if they went and recorded sessions and edited the video to “prove” that there was sinister behavior.

Weither lying is right according to the catechism is a different story, but it is NOT expressly forbidden in the commandments.
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I agree on the posters that say that undercover work by it’s nature has to occasionally mislead people. Undercover reporters have been aroun for years exposing things, and no one has questioned them…until they expose something that liberals don’t want exposed.

I think we need to look at the fact that PP would not be in hot water over these things if they had not actually done them. Live Action’s recent pimp/prostitute videos are only the lastest in a long line of videos proving PP violates the law. Also those videos gave sexually abused people who had been victim’s of PP negligence courage to step forward and sue them.

All in all I think they are doing good thing.
 
For all you people worried about Live Action “mis-representing” themsleves, I wonder how you feel about mystery-shopping? It’s a common technique for market research, often used by companies to check up on the training and behavior of their employees, and can (in some states) include recording (A/V) of conversations, etc. The mystery shoppers pose as customers or prospective customers and give fictitious information about their preferences, etc. to test various outcomes. Mystery shops don’t violate privacy because in most cases employees have agreed to them as part of their employment (no coercion there! :rolleyes:). LA is essentially doing a mystery shop on their own dime. PP should thank them for the free market research.
 
Since Live Action had to lie, I’m not really for it. Personally, I think it would be better if they got a pimp-turned-Christian and use him/her for the act. All he/she has to do is to word his/her sentences so that it creates a false assumption.
 
Inquiringperson said:
Since Live Action had to lie, I’m not really for it. Personally, I think it would be better if they got a pimp-turned-Christian and use him/her for the act. All he/she has to do is to word his/her sentences so that it creates a false assumption.
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What about Christians harboring Jews in Nazi Germany? Was it okay for them to lie?

What about doctors in clinical research studies, telling people they’ve received a drug when it was really a placebo?

What about police doing a sting operation?

As a matter of fact, I think that last one just about nails it. Citizens do sometimes have to step in to save a life when police cannot or will not. In this case, they’ve broken no civil laws, and they’ve taken action in a desperate cause to save literally MILLIONS of lives. Planned Parenthood’s death toll is truly a holocaust, and I believe a ruse is permissible in such extreme circumstances.
 
The success of this completely depends on creating a false impression.

How about if he had said:

“Suppose a guy was a pimp, I’m not admitting to anything, mind you (wink, wink), and suppose this pimp had some girls that were, maybe fourteen, or fifteen years old (smirk), and supposing these girls were not from here and didn’t speak English…(waving hand vaguely)”

There, it’s all hypothetical… feel better?
 
Inquiringperson said:
Since Live Action had to lie, I’m not really for it. Personally, I think it would be better if they got a pimp-turned-Christian and use him/her for the act. All he/she has to do is to word his/her sentences so that it creates a false assumption.
Click to expand...
They would still be technically misleading people.
 
JHow said:
For all you people worried about Live Action “mis-representing” themsleves, I wonder how you feel about mystery-shopping? It’s a common technique for market research, often used by companies to check up on the training and behavior of their employees, and can (in some states) include recording (A/V) of conversations, etc. The mystery shoppers pose as customers or prospective customers and give fictitious information about their preferences, etc. to test various outcomes. Mystery shops don’t violate privacy because in most cases employees have agreed to them as part of their employment (no coercion there! :rolleyes:). LA is essentially doing a mystery shop on their own dime. PP should thank them for the free market research.
Click to expand...
I used to mystery shop my companies competition all the time…does that make me a sinner too?
 
JHow said:
The success of this completely depends on creating a false impression.

How about if he had said:

“Suppose a guy was a pimp, I’m not admitting to anything, mind you (wink, wink), and suppose this pimp had some girls that were, maybe fourteen, or fifteen years old (smirk), and supposing these girls were not from here and didn’t speak English…(waving hand vaguely)”

There, it’s all hypothetical… feel better?
Click to expand...
I’ve used this same technique to find out if certain local “charities” are affiliated with PP (okay, without the winking and smirking). 😛

I’m sure that approach would make everyone a little more comfortable. Would it work? I dunno. I’m not a sting operation expert.
 
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