For People Who Think

[kalt]

Have you ever been to your local Islamic Center?

I went yesterday. It was very nice. Everyone knew I was an unbeliever, and nobody bothered me. Unlike the Catholics, they invite virtuous people of all faiths and none to join them in the complete service, so I could argue that they are much more tolerant than the Roman Catholic Church. I declined, and they were fine with that too.

I heard not one offensive thing there. Nobody beat his wife or daughter. There were no plots to cause trouble. They were all good people indulging in the search for meaning.

Your comments remind me of similar comments directed toward Jews by Catholics here. They also remind me of comments I heard growing up, directed at Catholics by Mormons. It’s unfortunate that people who know absolutely nothing about people outside their own private club indulge in demonizing the other, but I suppose that’s life.

As a correction – The Cathoic Church invites all people to join her in the “complete service”.

If someone refuses to accept the CC, it is his own freely-made choice.

The Catholic Church turns no one away, though many turn away from the CC.

I’m always amazed at the number of people who say that the real presence in the Eucharist is hogwash, that it’s just a symbol, and then get mightily miffed when they aren’t allowed to recieve it.

Well, if it’s nothing but a symbol, and you hate the CC and everything it stands for besides, what the blank to you care if you can recieve or not?

The thinking seems to be universal. It goes - No! I don’t believe in the Eucharist. I refuse to accept the truth of the real presence. I hate the Catholic Church, and boy am I ticked off that the papists “won’t let me in”, as if I’m not good enough for them, when I, a Bible-beleiving, real Chrisitan am the superior.

There are a few things wrong in that thinking.

1. Everyone is “let in”. It’s the person’s choice not to accept Catholicism.
2. Not recieving communion if you’re not Catholic isn’t about us and them, insiders and outsiders. It’s about what the Eucharist is. The rules about the Eucharist exist as they are because of what it is. It honestly isn’t all bout you.
3. It’s not about inferior or superior Christians. People who aren’t Catholic might not realize that before we receive the Sacrament, we say “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say that word and I shall be healed”. We aren’t worthy. It’s not about ranking.
4. And why the heck would someone who doesn’t believe in any of this be mad when he feels that he’s “not allowed” full participation?

 

[LaMar]

Hi Kalt,

Nice to see yet another Catholic making things personal, and projecting his/her own emotional reactions on his critics.

I made a simple statement. Muslims are more tolerant than Catholics. Nothing you’ve written disabuses me of the notion. If anything, it proves the original point.

It’s amusing to see you presume that I would want to take part in the “real presence”. Cannibalism has no appeal to me, sorry. The whole transubstantiation myth sounds quite sinister, almost like black magic. Drinking the blood and eating the flesh of a dead human being isn’t something I’d ever do, so you’re welcome to “feast” alone. LOL!

The whole Catholic worldview is demented, in my opinion. You believe that people are these horrible, sick, twisted creatures who need salvation. What does it say about the 4 Catholic gods who created humanity, that they’d make us so flawed?

I don’t have time to argue with you guys today, so I’ll leave you, ibkc, and your half-dozen other internet friends to twist and sexualize this response into something you can argue against, as you’re famous for doing.

Take Care,

LaMar

As a correction – The Cathoic Church invites all people to join her in the “complete service”.

If someone refuses to accept the CC, it is his own freely-made choice.

The Catholic Church turns no one away, though many turn away from the CC.

I’m always amazed at the number of people who say that the real presence in the Eucharist is hogwash, that it’s just a symbol, and then get mightily miffed when they aren’t allowed to recieve it.

Well, if it’s nothing but a symbol, and you hate the CC and everything it stands for besides, what the blank to you care if you can recieve or not?

The thinking seems to be universal. It goes - No! I don’t believe in the Eucharist. I refuse to accept the truth of the real presence. I hate the Catholic Church, and boy am I ticked off that the papists “won’t let me in”, as if I’m not good enough for them, when I, a Bible-beleiving, real Chrisitan am the superior.

There are a few things wrong in that thinking.

1. Everyone is “let in”. It’s the person’s choice not to accept Catholicism.
2. Not recieving communion if you’re not Catholic isn’t about us and them, insiders and outsiders. It’s about what the Eucharist is. The rules about the Eucharist exist as they are because of what it is. It honestly isn’t all bout you.
3. It’s not about inferior or superior Christians. People who aren’t Catholic might not realize that before we receive the Sacrament, we say “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say that word and I shall be healed”. We aren’t worthy. It’s not about ranking.
4. And why the heck would someone who doesn’t believe in any of this be mad when he feels that he’s “not allowed” full participation?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Muslims are more tolerant than Catholics.

That would be very insulting, eheheh.

Its a good strategy to use muslims to hurt catholicism.

 

[ibkc]

The thread title needs to be changed to “For People Who Think Like Me. Everyone Else Is Intolerant.”

 

[AgnosTheist]

The thread title needs to be changed to “For People Who Think Like Me. Everyone Else Is Intolerant.”

i actually agree with you there. LaMar’s only real activities in this thread is to complain about catholic behavior. Muslims are merely a means to that end.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Right, and the exclusion of non-Mormon family members from LDS weddings in the temple is actually a “protection” for them too.

Try again.

LaMar, if you really like to eat their holy waffer then just attend their mass and line up. Nobody is going to ask for your I.D. like they do in Mecca.

C’mon, eat it. Lets see if you really would suffer a curse for being unworthy of it. I dare you.

If nothing happens to you, you will have another bullet to shoot catholicism with.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Yo Amyyyyyy. Ameeee.

I dont see Mohammad getting into a discussion phase before he struck Aisha.

So why did she deserve that?

Sister Amy?

 

[ibkc]

LaMar, if you really like to eat their holy waffer then just attend their mass and line up. Nobody is going to ask for your I.D. like they do in Mecca.

There’s no secret handshake, either. We trust that people are who they say they are.

C’mon, eat it. Lets see if you really would suffer a curse for being unworthy of it. I dare you.

Well, normally he’d have to wait after he died to know if he was in trouble, and the people left behind in this life would never know his fate. Although by that point, he’d be so covered in the barnacles of sin anyway, the receiving the Eucharist unworthily one time would just be one more.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Well, normally he’d have to wait after he died to know if he was in trouble, and the people left behind in this life would never know his fate.

AW THAT SUCKS! I was planning on manipulating him into becoming my guinea pig!

We trust that people are who they say they are.

of course. i just thought that maybe LaMar would just like to taste it even if he has to line up pretending to be catholic.

 

[Booklover]

Yo Amyyyyyy. Ameeee.

Sister Amy?

More info on wife beating!

Vickie

 

[IvanKaramozov]

LaMar, if you really like to eat their holy waffer then just attend their mass and line up. Nobody is going to ask for your I.D. like they do in Mecca.

If the Priest sees they arn’t Catholic he may well refuse communion

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Yo Amyyyyyy. Ameeee.

Sister Amy?

I think she’s answered that quite a bit.

 

[ibkc]

If the Priest sees they arn’t Catholic he may well refuse communion

Unless the priest knows him personally, there would be no way to tell. We don’t wear badges or funny hats or Masonic aprons, and we don’t have ID badges or secret handshakes, nor must a password be given before the Precious Host is distributed.

 

[Sister_Amy]

LaMar, if you really like to eat their holy waffer then just attend their mass and line up. Nobody is going to ask for your I.D. like they do in Mecca.

holy waffer? mass? what are you even talking about?

You know, more people pass through Saudi Arabia in a year than through the United States, and they only have one visa requirement–that you come humble to God. Can I get in to the USA without showing my ID?

 

[Sister_Amy]

More info on wife beating!

Vickie

Her husband beats her severely

Hitting one’s wife?

Can she ask for a divorce because he is beating her?

Islam and Wife-Beating

Islamic Guidance on Treating Wives

Equal Rights for Women

If Islam were really as bad as you say it is, then you could refer only to Muslim scholars in your attacks. But you can’t do that, you have to go to non-Muslim sites devoted to attacking Islam, and I can refute you with Muslim sources.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I think she’s answered that quite a bit.

and what do you think was her answer? why did aisha deserve being struck by mohammad?

 

[AgnosTheist]

what are you even talking about?

You know, more people pass through Saudi Arabia in a year than through the United States, and they only have one visa requirement–that you come humble to God. Can I get in to the USA without showing my ID?

I am talking about the fact that non-muslims are disallowed anywhere near the kaaba.

LaMar seems to have this crazy idea that he deserves to partake in the rituals of every religion.

And arent you going to justify mohammad hurting aisha? If you think its unjustifiable in that particular case, at least be honest with us.

 

[Booklover]

Her husband beats her severely

Hitting one’s wife?

Can she ask for a divorce because he is beating her?

Islam and Wife-Beating

Islamic Guidance on Treating Wives

Equal Rights for Women

If Islam were really as bad as you say it is, then you could refer only to Muslim scholars in your attacks. But you can’t do that, you have to go to non-Muslim sites devoted to attacking Islam, and I can refute you with Muslim sources.

From your sources:

Part of that good and kind treatment **means not beating one’s wife in a severe manner and not insulting or cursing her. **He should realize that this is a violation of the trust with which Allaah has entrusted him. (Still allows him to beat her)

If you cannot find another husband, then staying without a husband in your parents’ house, where you will be cared for and respected, will be better for you than staying with this man, so long as you do not fear that you will be tempted or will fall into haraam things. But if you fear that you may be tempted, then being patient and bearing worldly troubles by staying with this man will be better for you than having to bear the punishment of Allaah. (Means she should go back to the husband who beats her)

If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.
‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]
The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her. (No matter how it’s sugar coated, a man can beat his wife!)

Everything in the link I had posted comes from the Quran and the hadiths!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am talking about the fact that non-muslims are disallowed anywhere near the kaaba.

And what exactly would you want to do at the Ka’ba anyway? You can visit any mosque in the world, but this one place is ONLY for the worship of God.

And arent you going to justify mohammad hurting aisha? If you think its unjustifiable in that particular case, at least be honest with us.

Will you give it a rest already? Either explain yourself what happened, since you’re the one who brought it up. Unless you have all the details of the hadith maybe you should just leave it alone. I’m not going to help you out–you’re digging your own hole.

 

[Sister_Amy]

From your sources:

Part of that good and kind treatment means not beating one’s wife in a severe manner and not insulting or cursing her. He should realize that this is a violation of the trust with which Allaah has entrusted him.

If you cannot find another husband,** then staying without a husband in your parents’ house**, where you will be cared for and respected, will be better for you than staying with this man, so long as you do not fear that you will be tempted or will fall into haraam things. But if you fear that you may be tempted, then being patient and bearing worldly troubles by staying with this man will be better for you than having to bear the punishment of Allaah.

If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.

‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator] The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.

In fact this isn’t sugarcoating anything, merely explaining it in the proper context. You are taking it out of the proper context, which I have restored with new formatting to the same text.

Everything in the link I had posted comes from the Quran and the hadiths!

Actually it didn’t, I’m amused to tell you. Some of it came from scholarly opinions, the opinions of Sahaba and Tabi’een. Nice try though.