For police, the goal is vigilance, not vigilantes

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Robert_Sock said:
The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You
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You should take a look at your own agenda. First of all your repetitive chant was people who want permits are vigilantes whose sole purpose is to kill.

Now you suggest the vigilantes only desire to kill themselves. :rolleyes:
 
Robert_Sock said:
Again, you avoid my question. Why?
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Your question was answered and SEVERAL times. Why can’t you accept the Popes weekend message when your so quick to suggest Christian martyrdom?

As I see it, the only one who has no answers is you!

Do you have the right to judge others intent by mind reading? Yes or No?

You have no answer when confronted by your own double standard.
 
GaryTaylor said:
You should take a look at your own agenda. First of all your repetitive chant was people who want permits are vigilantes whose sole purpose is to kill.
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Not just kill. “Bloody murder.” And they only obtain CCWs so they can get away with it.
Now you suggest the vigilantes only desire to kill themselves. :rolleyes:
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Incredible isn’t it?
:rolleyes:
 
GaryTaylor said:
You should take a look at your own agenda. First of all your repetitive chant was people who want permits are vigilantes whose sole purpose is to kill.

Now you suggest the vigilantes only desire to kill themselves. :rolleyes:
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Gary, just FYI, I borrowed your post above and quoted it in the other ongoing anti-gun thread, link below.

Link to my post:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11045474&postcount=27

Link to thread:
The Person You’re Most Likely To Kill With Your Gun Is You
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=812154
 
I ask myself why I participate in threads like this. Three reasons come to mind:
  1. The guy I’m arguing with might change his mind. (Robert has addressed three decades of research and studies that demonstrate the opposite of his ‘common sense’-based opinions, with a dismissive wave and a “the truth will eventually come out”. His mind seems very well protected against change.)
  2. I might change my mind. (I haven’t seen a single contrary claim, study, belief, or opinion expressed in this thread, that I haven’t already encountered, studied, and resolved to my satisfaction. So I see no reason to budge one inch.)
  3. Undecided or uncertain fokls might appreciate the exchange, as they look into the issue.
So, speaking to the third group of people, I’ll say a few things, and be done:

I believe God loves his pacifists as much as He loves His warriors. I have absolutely no problem with Americans like Robert Sock choosing to not arm themselves, responding to threats with love, and turn the other cheek, and talk of the Prince of Peace, and the Pope exposing himself to risk of harm, and all that. Truly, if the world had nobody with that mindset in it, I wouldn’t want to live in it.

Heck, it’s ok to support 2nd Amendment rights, and not feel comfortable around guns. A lady I know hates the things, and will not allow her husband to get one. That’s their choice. Guns are not magic talismans that ward off evil - they are complex tools that require practice and a dedicated mindset to use effectively. God bless the people who are unwilling to harm another! (Even someone coming to rape or murder you.)

But I’m of a different mindset, which I believe is also valid. I have encountered evil - I understand that in just about any city on earth, there will be a small percentage of residents who are willing to kill or seriously harm you for what you have. I live in a country that allows me the right to defend my wife and daughters from such evil, and I will exercise such right.

6 years ago, my wife and I helped put a bad guy behind bars. He knows where we live. He may want payback some day. So, a few years before his parole, I started thinking about what to do, and I started preparing. I learned about situational awareness. How to avoid harm by not being there in the first place. How to deter harm in various ways. How to evade harm that we see coming. And finally, should all those options fail - how to stop the harm. I joined a gym and got in better shape and learned how to fight a little. And I also researched firearms and self-defense laws, and learned what works and how to prepare. In my family, we think about it as learning 98 ways to run away, 2 ways to fight back. But should this guy, or anyone else, show up to bring serious harm to those I love, I will stand in opposition. Whether in my home, or a store parking lot, or a public park, or anywhere else I can legally carry concealed - you must get through me to get to my wife and daughters. And I’ll publicly argue with the Robert Socks of the world who want to remove my right to do so.

[Forrest Gump look] That’s all I have to say about that. God bless y’all.
 
NeuroTypical said:
I ask myself why I participate in threads like this. Three reasons come to mind:
  1. The guy I’m arguing with might change his mind. (Robert has addressed three decades of research and studies that demonstrate the opposite of his ‘common sense’-based opinions, with a dismissive wave and a “the truth will eventually come out”. His mind seems very well protected against change.)
  2. I might change my mind. (I haven’t seen a single contrary claim, study, belief, or opinion expressed in this thread, that I haven’t already encountered, studied, and resolved to my satisfaction. So I see no reason to budge one inch.)
  3. Undecided or uncertain fokls might appreciate the exchange, as they look into the issue.
So, speaking to the third group of people, I’ll say a few things, and be done:

I believe God loves his pacifists as much as He loves His warriors. I have absolutely no problem with Americans like Robert Sock choosing to not arm themselves, responding to threats with love, and turn the other cheek, and talk of the Prince of Peace, and the Pope exposing himself to risk of harm, and all that. Truly, if the world had nobody with that mindset in it, I wouldn’t want to live in it.

Heck, it’s ok to support 2nd Amendment rights, and not feel comfortable around guns. A lady I know hates the things, and will not allow her husband to get one. That’s their choice. Guns are not magic talismans that ward off evil - they are complex tools that require practice and a dedicated mindset to use effectively. God bless the people who are unwilling to harm another! (Even someone coming to rape or murder you.)

But I’m of a different mindset, which I believe is also valid. I have encountered evil - I understand that in just about any city on earth, there will be a small percentage of residents who are willing to kill or seriously harm you for what you have. I live in a country that allows me the right to defend my wife and daughters from such evil, and I will exercise such right.

6 years ago, my wife and I helped put a bad guy behind bars. He knows where we live. He may want payback some day. So, a few years before his parole, I started thinking about what to do, and I started preparing. I learned about situational awareness. How to avoid harm by not being there in the first place. How to deter harm in various ways. How to evade harm that we see coming. And finally, should all those options fail - how to stop the harm. I joined a gym and got in better shape and learned how to fight a little. And I also researched firearms and self-defense laws, and learned what works and how to prepare. In my family, we think about it as learning 98 ways to run away, 2 ways to fight back. But should this guy, or anyone else, show up to bring serious harm to those I love, I will stand in opposition. Whether in my home, or a store parking lot, or a public park, or anywhere else I can legally carry concealed - you must get through me to get to my wife and daughters. And I’ll publicly argue with the Robert Socks of the world who want to remove my right to do so.

[Forrest Gump look] That’s all I have to say about that. God bless y’all.
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I’m sorry you are in such a situation. I hope it all works out ok.
If you feel safer with a gun then by all means have one.
 
NeuroTypical said:
I ask myself why I participate in threads like this. Three reasons come to mind:
  1. The guy I’m arguing with might change his mind. (Robert has addressed three decades of research and studies that demonstrate the opposite of his ‘common sense’-based opinions, with a dismissive wave and a “the truth will eventually come out”. His mind seems very well protected against change.)
  2. I might change my mind. (I haven’t seen a single contrary claim, study, belief, or opinion expressed in this thread, that I haven’t already encountered, studied, and resolved to my satisfaction. So I see no reason to budge one inch.)
  3. Undecided or uncertain fokls might appreciate the exchange, as they look into the issue.
So, speaking to the third group of people, I’ll say a few things, and be done:

I believe God loves his pacifists as much as He loves His warriors. I have absolutely no problem with Americans like Robert Sock choosing to not arm themselves, responding to threats with love, and turn the other cheek, and talk of the Prince of Peace, and the Pope exposing himself to risk of harm, and all that. Truly, if the world had nobody with that mindset in it, I wouldn’t want to live in it.

Heck, it’s ok to support 2nd Amendment rights, and not feel comfortable around guns. A lady I know hates the things, and will not allow her husband to get one. That’s their choice. Guns are not magic talismans that ward off evil - they are complex tools that require practice and a dedicated mindset to use effectively. God bless the people who are unwilling to harm another! (Even someone coming to rape or murder you.)

But I’m of a different mindset, which I believe is also valid. I have encountered evil - I understand that in just about any city on earth, there will be a small percentage of residents who are willing to kill or seriously harm you for what you have. I live in a country that allows me the right to defend my wife and daughters from such evil, and I will exercise such right.

6 years ago, my wife and I helped put a bad guy behind bars. He knows where we live. He may want payback some day. So, a few years before his parole, I started thinking about what to do, and I started preparing. I learned about situational awareness. How to avoid harm by not being there in the first place. How to deter harm in various ways. How to evade harm that we see coming. And finally, should all those options fail - how to stop the harm. I joined a gym and got in better shape and learned how to fight a little. And I also researched firearms and self-defense laws, and learned what works and how to prepare. In my family, we think about it as learning 98 ways to run away, 2 ways to fight back. But should this guy, or anyone else, show up to bring serious harm to those I love, I will stand in opposition. Whether in my home, or a store parking lot, or a public park, or anywhere else I can legally carry concealed - you must get through me to get to my wife and daughters. And I’ll publicly argue with the Robert Socks of the world who want to remove my right to do so.

[Forrest Gump look] That’s all I have to say about that. God bless y’all.
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👍 That’s a balanced analysis. God bless you and your family!
 
An observation:

2 of the posters here who are critical of CCW were also so adamant that GZ should have gone to jail. I wonder if their opposition to CCW was the real reason why and not something else was the reason why they thought GZ should have gone to jail.
 
ronaldmiller said:
An observation:

2 of the posters here who are critical of CCW were also so adamant that GZ should have gone to jail. I wonder if their opposition to CCW was the real reason why and not something else was the reason why they thought GZ should have gone to jail.
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I admit that I hate guns, but I still believe that GZ was guilty of manslaughter due to his being negligent for a CCW personnel. With the CCW comes added responsibility and the need for prudent judgments, neither of which GZ exercised.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I admit that I hate guns, but I still believe that GZ was guilty of manslaughter due to his being negligent for a CCW personnel. With the CCW comes added responsibility and the need for prudent judgments, neither of which GZ exercised.
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Why is that? The criminal was shot and the innocent person lived.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I admit that I hate guns, but I still believe that GZ was guilty of manslaughter due to his being negligent for a CCW personnel. With the CCW comes added responsibility and the need for prudent judgments, neither of which GZ exercised.
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I agree and I have no problems with guns that are put in the hands of non felon responsible persons.

Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
The poster noted has never said “blame the victim” even once.
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Well of course he wouldn’t term his own argument that way. But his reasoning doesn’t stray far from “She shouldn’t have been wearing that in that part of town around those people.” GZ was legally allowed to be where he was and carrying a pistol in a legal manner. Bob doesn’t think he should have been afforded the latter part. I get that. That’s fine, but it’s an ideological position that is inconsistent with the law.
 
lcburgundy said:
Well of course he wouldn’t term his own argument that way. But his reasoning doesn’t stray far from “She shouldn’t have been wearing that in that part of town around those people.” GZ was legally allowed to be where he was and carrying a pistol in a legal manner. Bob doesn’t think he should have been afforded the latter part. I get that. That’s fine, but it’s an ideological position that is inconsistent with the law.
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Again, my screen name is Robert, not Bob. I would appreciate it if you would refer to me as Robert.

Thanks.
 
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