For the Christian, homosexual attraction can be an opportunity for holiness --- but what about the average Joe homosexual?

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Pardon the way the question was phrased, but I think I got the basic idea squeezed into the heading.

The Catholic Church likes to talk about how same-sex attraction can be a beautiful opportunity to find strength and God and foster a life of holiness. People in the church as well as official writings acknowledge that homosexual attraction is not chosen, and that it can be a very hard struggle in the life of faith.

So I understand that – in theory – the homosexual Christian is able to take up his cross, follow Christ, and achieve a beautiful life of sanctity. Our life, after all, is not about earthly happiness, for we are transcendent beings meant for a much greater fulfillment.

Okay.

But what about the people who have not been raised with this faith perspective, those whose faith does not “click” in this way? What about those people who – because of their upbringing, personality, or experiences – simply will not find the church’s alternative to be reasonable, at all?

We all know people in our lives who are like this. Perhaps many of us have close gay friends or family. They have a certain view of the world. They have a certain perspective, they are even good people, they are loving, caring, and family-oriented. They may even be part of a religious or Christian tradition that accepts same-sex marriage. They have this deep attraction, this deep orientation, that affects who they are. But for whatever reason, it simply is a ridiculous thought that they would ever see traditional Catholic teaching as making any sense of their attractions and experiences (say their experiences with their partners, gay lovers, etc.).

What’s the point of this person’s same-sex attraction? I assume that their ignorance and experience will excuse them for participating in an active homosexual life. (I.e., They won’t go to hell simply because they don’t live by the Catholic way.) But this question isn’t really about that, and I don’t want to debate moral culpability. And I don’t really care for the simple answer “By God’s grace, anyone can come to see the Catholic view on homosexuality.” The fact is, there are plenty of well-meaning people who are probably moved by God’s grace at whatever stage in life they are in (Catholic or not, Christian or not). Yet many of them do not adopt the traditional approach, which demands lifelong celibacy.

As another thought, it seems that for many of these people, their same-sex attraction is an upfront, obvious obstacle to belief in Catholicism or traditional Christianity at all. For example, I have an atheist friend who is also gay. The thought of traditional Christian approaches to homosexuality would be so far removed from his mind, that the simple suggestion of that worldview would probably move him even further from religion and God. Still, grace…

So… any thoughts?
 
What’s the point of this person’s same-sex attraction?
Is there “a point” to every temptation? I am afraid that that would be an overly broad assumption.
 
You’re an atheist./QUOTE]

There should be a sneer emoticon available. I should check.
catholic1seeks;14415937:
If you read my entire post, you’d know exactly where I’m coming from.
I’m sorry. I hadn’t realised. Give me a minute…

OK, you are still wrong on so many levels.

First off, being gay doesn’t serve any purpose. It’s just the way that some people are. Just like you being right handed (don’t ask me how I know).

Secondly, it’s not an affliction that one needs to overcome in order to attain holiness. You probably wouldn’t want it to be compared to an illness or a disease or alcoholism (maybe you can confirm that, just in case), but that’s what the question implies: ‘Lucky devil…look at the opportunity HE has to be holy. Some people have all the luck’.

Thirdly, being gay is no obstruction whatsoever to being a good person, a good Christian or a good Catholic.

Again, you might not appreciate your post being read in this way. But I did read the whole thing the first time. That’s how it comes across.
 
“For the Christian, promiscuous attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, adulterous attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, self-abuse attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, the will to dominate others can be an opportunity for holiness …”

All the above evil inclinations are opportunities for holiness only through abstention. The point being that all, Christians and non-Christians, must order their evil inclinations to misuse creatures to their will, and their will, for non-Christians, to the natural law and, for Christians, to God’s will. The natural law rightly understood and God’s will are identities.

The persons who have strong attractions to others of the same sex need not act on that attraction sexually in order to satisfy their social need for friendships.
 
Pardon the way the question was phrased, but I think I got the basic idea squeezed into the heading.

The Catholic Church likes to talk about how same-sex attraction can be a beautiful opportunity to find strength and God and foster a life of holiness. People in the church as well as official writings acknowledge that homosexual attraction is not chosen, and that it can be a very hard struggle in the life of faith.

So I understand that – in theory – the homosexual Christian is able to take up his cross, follow Christ, and achieve a beautiful life of sanctity. Our life, after all, is not about earthly happiness, for we are transcendent beings meant for a much greater fulfillment.

Okay.

But what about the people who have not been raised with this faith perspective, those whose faith does not “click” in this way? What about those people who – because of their upbringing, personality, or experiences – simply will not find the church’s alternative to be reasonable, at all?

We all know people in our lives who are like this. Perhaps many of us have close gay friends or family. They have a certain view of the world. They have a certain perspective, they are even good people, they are loving, caring, and family-oriented. They may even be part of a religious or Christian tradition that accepts same-sex marriage. They have this deep attraction, this deep orientation, that affects who they are. But for whatever reason, it simply is a ridiculous thought that they would ever see traditional Catholic teaching as making any sense of their attractions and experiences (say their experiences with their partners, gay lovers, etc.).

What’s the point of this person’s same-sex attraction? I assume that their ignorance and experience will excuse them for participating in an active homosexual life. (I.e., They won’t go to hell simply because they don’t live by the Catholic way.) But this question isn’t really about that, and I don’t want to debate moral culpability. And I don’t really care for the simple answer “By God’s grace, anyone can come to see the Catholic view on homosexuality.” The fact is, there are plenty of well-meaning people who are probably moved by God’s grace at whatever stage in life they are in (Catholic or not, Christian or not). Yet many of them do not adopt the traditional approach, which demands lifelong celibacy.

As another thought, it seems that for many of these people, their same-sex attraction is an upfront, obvious obstacle to belief in Catholicism or traditional Christianity at all. For example, I have an atheist friend who is also gay. The thought of traditional Christian approaches to homosexuality would be so far removed from his mind, that the simple suggestion of that worldview would probably move him even further from religion and God. Still, grace…

So… any thoughts?
I understand the first part of your post and the Catholic’s opportunity to find strength, since we believe we can offer up our sufferings to the sufferings of Christ on the Cross.

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking[a] in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

But your question is a bit confusing when you say “What’s the point of this person’s same-sex attraction?” Do you mean something like why would God allow this if this person does not have the same opportunity? I might not be following you but when I first read it I was thinking "What’s the point of any sin then?

I am not saying you are wrong here, I just think we need a little more explanation of where you want us to go with this.

God Bless
 
Okay so I see you has asking multiple questions here.

The first you have is for a gay/ssa Catholic who has discerned that marriage isn’t their vocation, what is there for them (including support structures) because you can’t have a vocation of NO. Eve Tushnet, a gay/ssa woman who converted to Catholicism, wrote a book “Gay and Catholic” that deals with that premise (I haven’t read it, but have been told it is very good.)

Your second question does with sanctification: Any person regardless of what they are tempted by, can use their personal cross as a means of sanctification. By resisting our temptations and looking toward God, we can grow in our faith and work towards purifying our hearts while living out lives affirming to God (and taking use of the sacraments including confession when needed)
spiritualfriendship.org/2014/02/26/is-being-gay-sanctifiable/ -kind of relates to that discussion

Other perspectives to related topics:
spiritualfriendship.org/2015/11/04/the-gift-of-singleness/
spiritualfriendship.org/2013/08/09/celibacy-and-healing/
spiritualfriendship.org/2012/07/13/false-hope/
I also always suggest Wesley Hill’s “Washed and Waiting”
 
From a Catholic perspective, if they are not Christian it doesn’t really matter what they believe.

From a human standpoint, looking at the physical and emotional consequences of living that lifestyle are devastating. Go to the CDC website and search “men having sex with men” or “women having sex with women” and you will find a full load of reasoning a person with ssa should remain celibate.

Thanks for the question.
 
From a Catholic perspective, if they are not Christian it doesn’t really matter what they believe.

From a human standpoint, looking at the physical and emotional consequences of living that lifestyle are devastating. Go to the CDC website and search “men having sex with men” or “women having sex with women” and you will find a full load of reasoning a person with ssa should remain celibate.

Thanks for the question.
Wait. A person’s belief only matters if they are Catholic?
That is NOT a Catholic perspective.
 
From a Catholic perspective, if they are not Christian it doesn’t really matter what they believe.

From a human standpoint, looking at the physical and emotional consequences of living that lifestyle are devastating. Go to the CDC website and search “men having sex with men” or “women having sex with women” and you will find a full load of reasoning a person with ssa should remain celibate.

Thanks for the question.
I think that society as a whole saw this as wrong for a long time. As taught in the RCC unless it is willed it is a moral disorder. But as we can sin seems to get worse in society everyday.

I believe any kind of sin we have is pretty much the same. The devil will give you whatever you want and then he destroys you with it.

Which is why the Church is so against sin. Because they know that when a person sins against GOd they end up getting hurt. And I would hope the average Joe would see this also.

Strange but like any other sin, you give it up to God, and you think you are carrying this cross with God and for God in a sense, but it is you yourself who is being saved. God does work in mysterious ways.

We are taught to love everyone, and it is because of that great love we cannot accept their sin, because we know the horrible hurt that is to come to that person in the end. Just like drugs, same outcome. You know the danger and destruction that is to come.
 
Is there “a point” to every temptation? I am afraid that that would be an overly broad assumption.
If you think that “homosexual orientation” or “same-sex attraction” is reducible to a sexual temptation only, then I take it you are neither gay nor have close friends who are.
 
“For the Christian, promiscuous attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, adulterous attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, self-abuse attractions can be an opportunity for holiness …”
“For the Christian, the will to dominate others can be an opportunity for holiness …”

All the above evil inclinations are opportunities for holiness only through abstention. The point being that all, Christians and non-Christians, must order their evil inclinations to misuse creatures to their will, and their will, for non-Christians, to the natural law and, for Christians, to God’s will. The natural law rightly understood and God’s will are identities.

The persons who have strong attractions to others of the same sex need not act on that attraction sexually in order to satisfy their social need for friendships.
So then the question could be asked more broadly - why does God let anyone experience certain strong tendencies that are against Christian faith, if these people will in fact be turned off from Christianity because of their attractions?
 
I understand the first part of your post and the Catholic’s opportunity to find strength, since we believe we can offer up our sufferings to the sufferings of Christ on the Cross.

Colossians 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking[a] in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

But your question is a bit confusing when you say “What’s the point of this person’s same-sex attraction?” Do you mean something like why would God allow this if this person does not have the same opportunity? I might not be following you but when I first read it I was thinking "What’s the point of any sin then?

I am not saying you are wrong here, I just think we need a little more explanation of where you want us to go with this.

God Bless
Yes the opportunity.

Because for many people, their same-sex attraction or being gay would never allow them to even consider Christianity for a second. I just happen to be raised in the Catholic faith, so I’ve been more or less willing to reconcile these two aspects. But even here it’s hard. So I can see how a non-Christian would view faith as ridiculous.
 
Yes the opportunity.

Because for many people, their same-sex attraction or being gay would never allow them to even consider Christianity for a second. I just happen to be raised in the Catholic faith, so I’ve been more or less willing to reconcile these two aspects. But even here it’s hard. So I can see how a non-Christian would view faith as ridiculous.
To answer the question directly I would say we will never know the answer to this question in this lifetime.

Indirectly I would say you don’t need to be Catholic to be able to reconcile these two aspects. The natural law alone should allow us to reconcile these two aspects.

From the natural law we can reason that the natural sex partner for a man is a woman, and the natural sex partner for a woman is a man.

Or as another poster showed we can see that same sex union does always achieve a natural outcome…
From a human standpoint, looking at the physical and emotional consequences of living that lifestyle are devastating. Go to the CDC website and search “men having sex with men” or “women having sex with women” and you will find a full load of reasoning a person with ssa should remain celibate.

Thanks for the question.
 
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