For the Love Of God let's DO something

[Santi2]

Nicola Blackwood is now a Conservative MP.

She is also described as a ‘‘keen libertarian’’ on her own website.

The Conservatives are pro abortion, pro divorce, pro contraception, pro same sex marriages (under the guise of equality) to name but a few.

I don’t personally think this is a blow to secularism.

But Im not well versed yet in British politics so maybe Im missing something.

Yes, she describes herself as a civil libertarian on account of her background and work on human rights.

N Blackwood MP (CON) is also a member of the Conservative Christian Fellowship and there were 30+ members of the CCF who were prospective parliamentary candidates ccfwebsite.com/new-prayer.shtml However, I am not sure whether a few more were as successful as her.

Whether one would consider N Blackwood’s seat as a blow to secularism, can only be weighed against the unseated rival. So, it’s a good start because one minds that Harman & Co(LAB) remain incumbent and that the Lib Dems do not hold a much different platform on abortion, divorce etc. The public square will still be kept quite busy.

 

[portarica]

“I would venture to say that there are more liberals who believe in more of the teachings of Jesus than there are conservatives who do so.”
That is an absolutely calumnous,slanderous thing to say based merely upon your own prejudices.As a Catholic with a conservative bent especially socially I find that statement outrageous and offensive and most importantly grotesquely misinformed.
It was liberals who brought us abortion,euthanasia,and so-called same sex marriage.Are you confusing Jesus with someone else.Preposterous.

Actually the most conservative countries(China etc.) are the biggest practitioners of abortion.

Aside for abortion being a common practice in conservative and traditional societies, perhaps a rereading of what Jesus taught about having a preference for the poor and the inclusiveness of His message regarding those issues, is in order.

BTW , I understand why you would find it personally offensive to know that what Jesus taught is the underpinning for most liberal thought. Its sort of like having the rug pulled out from under you.

Peace

 

[Soutane]

"liberal issues that Jesus taught about"Chapter and verse please

.And please don’t comfuse the Beatitudes with today’s modern liberalism which wants to embrace secularity and it’s “values” in toto.Abortion,Euthanasia,sexualising of children,If it feels good do itism,pacificism to the point of not defending Afghani schoolgirls from having sulphuric acid thrown into their faces for their audacity in wanting to attend schools and learn instead of being imprisoned in human body bags and kept as literal servants in their husband’s households.Yeah Jesus was a REAL liberal.Don’t confuse today’s conservatives with the caricatures of Scrooge McDuck and the little tophatted fatcat you see on monoploy playing cards.Todays conservatives demographically make a lot less monet than liberals and its quite an education to examine the tax returns of notorious liberal politicians in the US to see how much OF THEIR OWN MONEY they actually gave to charities.They’d rather give YOURS.

 

[estesbob]

There are many people who are liberal who oppose abortion, just as there are many conservatives who oppose a preference for the poor as taught by Jesus.

I would venture to say that there are more liberals who believe in more of the teachings of Jesus than there are conservatives who do so.

And that makes it likely that there are more complete catholics who are liberal .

I say that because there are probably more liberal catholics who are against abortion than there are conservative catholics who are for for all the liberal issues that Jesus taught about.

I would be careful about calling the kettle black.

Peace

Simply not true. there is a difference of opinion on the best way to serve the poor BUT that in no way rises to the level of abortion. the Church does not endorse ANY Party’s poverty programs BUT it does categorically condemn abortion. Again all rights flow from the right to life. Paovery programs do little good for those killed in the womb.

 

[estesbob]

Actually the most conservative countries(China etc.) are the biggest practitioners of abortion.

Aside for abortion being a common practice in conservative and traditional societies, perhaps a rereading of what Jesus taught about having a preference for the poor and the inclusiveness of His message regarding those issues, is in order.

BTW , I understand why you would find it personally offensive to know that what Jesus taught is the underpinning for most liberal thought. Its sort of like having the rug pulled out from under you.

Peace

First time I ever heard socialism called "conservative’ The mental gymnastics Catholics must go through to rationalize supporting abortion is a terrible thing to behold. The idea that what Jesus taught in any way resembles modern liberalism is specious.

 

[Soutane]

Actually the most conservative countries(China etc.) are the biggest practitioners of abortion.

Aside for abortion being a common practice in conservative and traditional societies, perhaps a rereading of what Jesus taught about having a preference for the poor and the inclusiveness of His message regarding those issues, is in order.

BTW , I understand why you would find it personally offensive to know that what Jesus taught is the underpinning for most liberal thought. Its sort of like having the rug pulled out from under you.

Peace

Stop playing with semantics-China is a totalitarian leftist,communist state.It is hardly conservative except in the eyes of those would like to change the meanings of words for for their own purposes.Please read my other posts.Jesus was not the King of NICENESS.He was a two-fisted carpenter who did not suffer fools gladly and was able without effort to illustate the hypocracy of the Pharasies who sought to use words to trap him.They’re efforts were quite laughable,and that’s all I’m going to say.I’d check your own carpet tacks if I were you,

 

[portarica]

Simply not true. there is a difference of opinion on the best way to serve the poor BUT that in no way rises to the level of abortion. the Church does not endorse ANY Party’s poverty programs BUT it does categorically condemn abortion. Again all rights flow from the right to life. Paovery programs do little good for those killed in the womb.

Look at your response and you make my point. I am against abortion like I assume you are.

But I am probably “more liberal” on social issues. And I can find congruency with my holdings in those areas with what Jesus taught.

So in your mind does having an anti abortion stance trump a more complete faith holding that also includes Jesus’ liberal teachings?

Or are you just saying that being anti abortion and not utilizing Jesus’ liberal teachings trumps a pro-choice stance that includes Jesus’ liberal teachings?

It appears that some people who are pro life think being pro life makes one a conservative by definition. That is not a truism.

Peace

 

[portarica]

First time I ever heard socialism called "conservative’ The mental gymnastics Catholics must go through to rationalize supporting abortion is a terrible thing to behold. The idea that what Jesus taught in any way resembles modern liberalism is specious.

China is not a socialist state. There is no equal distribution of wealth. There is an establish elite class and no human rights. China is a fascist state.

And what Jesus taught is the basis for most traditional liberal thought. You are equating the political definition of “liberal” as found on Fox as your standard.That is untrue as there is almost no real difference between the results of conservative politicians and liberal politicians in the US even though both have different descriptions used by Fox.

Real liberals would be the Dorothy Days and those of her ilk.

Peace

 

[Soutane]

First time I ever heard socialism called "conservative’ The mental gymnastics Catholics must go through to rationalize supporting abortion is a terrible thing to behold. The idea that what Jesus taught in any way resembles modern liberalism is specious.

It’s the old liberal saw about words being power.It’s quite Orwellian in nature-Newspeak.Change the definition and you own the highground in ANY arguement that is not based upon reality but semantics.Liberals are SO transparent.Christ respected the laws.He was NOT a revolutionary.Now ,Ive seen it all-the liberals who created this unGodly mess over the last 60 years are claiming Christ as their champion.What chutzpah.Christ attacked hypocracy not conservatism.He admonished servants to respect their masters and vice-versa.He did not come to foment liberal revolution.Talk about trying to rewrite history.We must worship the REAL Christ not a wishful thinking imaginary one or the one we see reflected back at us in our bathroom mirrors.

 

[Soutane]

China is not a socialist state. There is no equal distribution of wealth. There is an establish elite class and no human rights. China is a fascist state.

And what Jesus taught is the basis for most traditional liberal thought. You are equating the political definition of “liberal” as found on Fox as your standard.That is untrue as there is almost no real difference between the results of conservative politicians and liberal politicians in the US even though both have different descriptions used by Fox.

Real liberals would be the Dorothy Days and those of her ilk.

Peace

China is a Communist Totalitarian state.Dorothy is not a Saint yet and saints are by no means infallible nor impeccable.I’ll see you one Dorothy Day and raise you one St Gianna and one Joan of Arc
Monopoly capitalism and conservatism are not the same thing as Hillaire Belloc,G.K.Chesterton and yes even Dorothy Day would agree.

 

[portarica]

It’s the old liberal saw about words being power.It’s quite Orwellian in nature-Newspeak.Change the definition and you own the highground in ANY arguement that is not based upon reality but semantics.Liberals are SO transparent.Christ respected the laws.He was NOT a revolutionary.Now ,Ive seen it all-the liberals who created this unGodly mess over the last 60 years are claiming Christ as their champion.What chutzpah.Christ attacked hypocracy not conservatism.He admonished servants to respect their masters and vice-versa.He did not come to foment liberal revolution.Talk about trying to rewrite history.We must worship the REAL Christ not a wishful thinking imaginary one or the one we see reflected back at us in our bathroom mirrors.

You’re right, they hung Him on the cross for going with the flow.

Name a program instituted by conservatives that helped the US grow or even a war that they won.

Name an advancement in human dignity in the US that came from the conservative side.

Even the underpinnings for the pro life movement came from Jesus’ liberal teachings about the worth and value of each individual.

Peace

 

[estesbob]

Look at your response and you make my point. I am against abortion like I assume you are.

But I am probably “more liberal” on social issues. And I can find congruency with my holdings in those areas with what Jesus taught.

So in your mind does having an anti abortion stance trump a more complete faith holding that also includes Jesus’ liberal teachings?

Or are you just saying that being anti abortion and not utilizing Jesus’ liberal teachings trumps a pro-choice stance that includes Jesus’ liberal teachings?

It appears that some people who are pro life think being pro life makes one a conservative by definition. That is not a truism.

Peace

You can find congruency with what Jesus taught only by using your personal interpeation of what he taught. you can not, however, reconcile voting for pro-abortion canidates with the teachings of the Church. The idea that Jesus’s teachings in any way supports Modern Liberalism is in dispute-the fact that a Catholics can not directly or indirectly support abortion is not.

 

[portarica]

China is a Communist Totalitarian state.Dorothy is not a Saint yet and saints are by no means infallible nor impeccable.I’ll see you one Dorothy Day and raise you one St Gianna and one Joan of Arc
Monopoly capitalism and conservatism are not the same thing as Hillaire Belloc,G.K.Chesterton and yes even Dorothy Day would agree.

So why did the conservatives and traditionalists have Joan of Arc killed?

China is totalitarian state, but it has no equality so it falls on the conservative side of the ledger. There are no liberal holdings in place in China, no freedoms and no liberty. It is not liberal.

Peace

 

[estesbob]

Name a program instituted by conservatives that helped the US grow or even a war that they won.

 

[portarica]

You can find congruency with what Jesus taught only by using your personal interpeation of what he taught. you can not, however, reconcile voting for pro-abortion canidates with the teachings of the Church. The idea that Jesus’s teachings in any way supports Modern Liberalism is in dispute-the fact that a Catholics can not directly or indirectly support abortion is not.

So do liberal anti abortionists trump anti preference for the poor conservatives?

Peace

 

[Soutane]

You keep alluding to the “liberal” teachings of Christ but have not quoted one.Christ did not come to setup as liberal socialist paradise on earth.His is the Kingdom of heaven.Don’t confuse Jesus’ championing of fairness with odious liberalism as it is understood todat.Christ and the apostles were supported financially by a rich woman.St.Magdalene.Christ was buried by a rich man.
Liberalism and socialism is the relgion of those who wish to remake God into their own self-concept.I note that you did not address any of my criticisms of the “fruits” of liberalism over the last 60 years.Which in itself speaks volumes.And by the way you are highjacking this thread so please start your own.

 

[Soutane]

I repeat you are highjacking the purpose of this thread to grind your own political saw.Please desist as it is against forum rules.Please start your own thread.Or I sdhall report you to the moderator.

 

[Soutane]

So do liberal anti abortionists trump anti preference for the poor conservatives?

Peace

You are contributing a divisive component to this thread,and steering it away from its purpose.You are being arguementative and contributing nothing.please desist and start your own thread or I WILL report you to the moderator.

 

[asmrbd]

Do something? Start within your heart. Then win heart by heart. The problem is within the churches first. The Bible says “if my people” confess their sins and TURN from their wicked ways, he will heal their land. As for civil disobedience, our Nation is in heaven and our King is God, he trumps earthly law. Render unto Ceaser unless it causes us to sin.

Change hearts, for there must be a chnage, a new creature, where all things become new and all old things are passed away. The problem is there is no real change. The people in the church are as worldly as the ones outside, there is sometimes no difference.

IS 55:7, Jonah and John the baptist have the same message for today. Repent and turn, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

 

[Pamm]

Soutane – you strike me as a very angry person. You are calling for declared war on the secular and even religious life of many. It is this kind of hateful, raging, crazy conjecture on line that makes me wonder where our world is going to. By the way, the last time I read the rules on here, it didn’t say that these forums were in place so that a few fringe people can go on tirades calling for the end of our country, our society and everything about it. Loving God begins in your heart – and you sir or madame, do not love God if you can spew this much hate.