For Those Who Are Skeptical About God's Existence

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It looks like you have seen life from both sides. Unlike yourself, I can only relate to atheism intellectually or theoretically. I have never doubted the existence of God since I have always been aware of and experienced his presence. My faith is based on that experience.

What St. Paul said to the Romans has always been true for me: “Ever since God created the world his everlasting power and deity–however invisible–have been there for the mind to see in the things he has made.” This has always my experience when close to nature. I am totally perplexed and saddened by the fact many people can know so much about creation while knowing so little, or in the case of atheism, know nothing at all, about its Creator.

I think there are some folks who honestly don’t know that God exists, while there are others who make a studied refusal, out of personal hostility or resentment, to acknowledge His existence, even to themselves.
Your argument may be enough for you–one of personal experience–but it isn’t enough for many other people, who have not had your experience.

The amputee argument is old, but still valid–and true for all the other disorders not cured. The question of evil is one of the oldest–and, to my mind, most valid arguments against the existence of a personal, all-loving,all-powerful god.
 
** It is much harder to marshall evidence for a belief in this god than for a lack of belief.**
ABSOLUTELY:)

I’ve always - in all ways - thought Atheists… sought only the EASY way. Thank you for reaffirming my ideas:)
 
And many amputees lose their jobs or cannot be hired after they lose a limb. It is devastating to them. I think that it is interesting that you so airily dismiss the catastrophe of becoming an amputee.

Tales of levitation and translocation must be proved scientifically if anyone is to believe such tales.

And if one is to look around for evidence for the existence of the all-knowing, all-merciful god, I would say look around for the lack of evidence–which is everywhere. It is much harder to marshall evidence for a belief in this god than for a lack of belief.
I think you must have misread me. I have never tried to dismiss the horrific pain and suffering on must face when becoming an amputee. It was teadough that was doing that.
 
I think you must have misread me. I have never tried to dismiss the horrific pain and suffering on must face when becoming an amputee. It was teadough that was doing that.
um, no. You misread me and are trying turn this on someone else. You are under the impression that when one loses a limb that life is over and there is nothing else worth living for. You are putting out words that I never intended to say because you want to make it appear as thought I have no compassion for someone losing a limb. Why would you say such a thing?
 
um, no. You misread me and are trying turn this on someone else. You are under the impression that when one loses a limb that life is over and there is nothing else worth living for. You are putting out words that I never intended to say because you want to make it appear as thought I have no compassion for someone losing a limb. Why would you say such a thing?
Because that is what you said, your EXACT words were*** “Legs or no legs. It really shouldn’t make a difference either way.”***
 
Because that is what you said, your EXACT words were*** “Legs or no legs. It really shouldn’t make a difference either way.”***
How convenient of you to only quote the last part of my statement, when in fact I was specifically talking about ME or anyone for that matter having acceptance with whatever current situation that is in front of me/them.

here is the exact quote where I was responding to you
Your idea of a God is one who would/should give everything that you ask for while here on earth. Acceptence is key for me. Sometimes you just have to accept a current situation. Legs or no legs. It really shouldn’t make a difference either way.
 
How convenient of you to only quote the last part of my statement, when in fact I was specifically talking about ME or anyone for that matter having acceptance with whatever current situation that is in front of me/them.

here is the exact quote where I was responding to you
“acceptance with whatever current situation that is in front of me/them.” Unless its cancer, then pray to get better and if your one of the people who statistically get better anyway, claim god did it. I just want to know why god CANT or WONT cure amputees.
 
If there is some god, it is either disinterested, hard-hearted or incompetent. You may call me any derogatory name that comforts you. But my son has been born with so many physical, emotional and mental birth defects that he is just enough borderline normal to get himself into terrible trouble. I doubt he will be able to finish High School, because he lacks the bra(name removed by moderator)ower. Therefore his life will not be worth the living. It is already truly a hell, so to speak, and it apparently gives whatever god great pleasure, since it has answered none of the hundreds of prayers offered by true believers (not just me me) for him to be a normal 15 y/o boy.

I have also asked satan to take my soul for all eternity if he would cure my son of his lack of emotional intelligence, low I.Q. and violent nature. For what possible value is my primitive soul compared to my child’s success and and happiness. But satan is apparently disengaged from humankind as “god.” If I–with my flawed character and defective love–would heal my son when god happily refuses, it only means that my capacity of love is greater than god’s. Some deity.

At least I have the comfort that when I die, hopefully very soon, I will simply enter an eternal, dreamless sleep. My consciousness will cease to exist and it will be as though I never existed. At last…something to be grateful for. I truly hope that my permanently defective son does not have to live a long life, for it clearly would be only prolonged misery, failure and center around the revolving door of the prison system Although that is just the sort of cruel irony a god would inflict on an innocent child.
 
If there is some god, it is either disinterested, hard-hearted or incompetent. You may call me any derogatory name that comforts you. But my son has been born with so many physical, emotional and mental birth defects that he is just enough borderline normal to get himself into terrible trouble. I doubt he will be able to finish High School, because he lacks the bra(name removed by moderator)ower. Therefore his life will not be worth the living. It is already truly a hell, so to speak, and it apparently gives whatever god great pleasure, since it has answered none of the hundreds of prayers offered by true believers (not just me me) for him to be a normal 15 y/o boy.

I have also asked satan to take my soul for all eternity if he would cure my son of his lack of emotional intelligence, low I.Q. and violent nature. For what possible value is my primitive soul compared to my child’s success and and happiness. But satan is apparently disengaged from humankind as “god.” If I–with my flawed character and defective love–would heal my son when god happily refuses, it only means that my capacity of love is greater than god’s. Some deity.

At least I have the comfort that when I die, hopefully very soon, I will simply enter an eternal, dreamless sleep. My consciousness will cease to exist and it will be as though I never existed. At last…something to be grateful for. I truly hope that my permanently defective son does not have to live a long life, for it clearly would be only prolonged misery, failure and center around the revolving door of the prison system Although that is just the sort of cruel irony a god would inflict on an innocent child.
You have an incredibly heavy burden to carry. I know how difficult physically and psychologically disabled children can be. I assisted teaching learning disabled, children and severely emotionally disturbed children for a year. I loved the job, and I can understand and sympathize with the parents side of things. Oftentimes, disabled children become the center of difficulties in a marriage.

You have decided that your son’s life is not worth living. Does your son feel that way, too, or is that just your view?

You have tried to make an agreement with the devil; you hope you will die soon, and you also hope that your son will die soon. None of these options will solve any of your problems. Those options are not realistic.

You have to face the likely prospect that, despite your prayer requests, your son will not lead a normal life. But if you seek more outside help for your situation, which is really what you need to do, you and your son may be able to hope for at least a better life is some ways than what you both are living now.

Have you talked with a priest lately, or any type of family counselor who can plug you in to some additional kinds of help? It looks like you should not delay one more day.

There are also many online support groups for parents with disabled children. What about your own mental health? Are you burnt out? Are you depressed? If so, you should seek help for these all too common problems. You can’t be of any help to your son unless you can first get the help that you need.
 
“If you could only just believe in god, you would believe in him” is the worst argument of them all. As for “pride and arrogance”, get over yourself. If only it wasn’t for your “pride and arrogance” you would worship Allah! See how silly you are being. “Pride and arrogance” have NOTHING to do with it, EVIDENCE DOES. There is not a single shred to suggest a god exists, so i don’t believe in one. Now you can call that “pride and arrogance” all you like, i call it reality.
You missed my point.
I was talking about evidence.
My point was this-- the ‘evidence’ you keep asking for is there for you Albert.
And ONLY YOU.
God is not going to ‘prove to the world’ that He is there. He has a VERY good reason for generally avoiding this approach.

What you could not know, is that God looks down and does not see just the swarming crowd of humanity. He see individuals. And He is ready to accept them each , right where they are at, no strings.

He sees, and knows, you. Albert.

When you are ready to invite Him, He will respond to you, Albert. But he is not forcing his hand by trying to persuade you to do what you do not want to do. He does NOT need your love, but He would like to have it, and would certainly like to share His love with you.
He ‘stands at the door and knocks’.
There is no latch on His side of the door.
Only on your’s.
 
***Ruminations…***I must admit outright that I do not understand atheism, but it seems that there are two kinds of atheists: those who think they are atheists, and those who are atheists.

If atheism is true, then nothing matters, not even the fact that one is an atheist.

Time is short before the atheist ceases to exist. Then there will be no memory of life, no awareness, no thought even of non-existence, no fantasized eternal darkness or endless sleep…in short, all will be as if it never was.

So, why does the atheist pursue anything in life? Do pursuits serve as a necessary and constant distraction from the inevitable, an inevitability so utterly terrifying that the mind dare not gaze directly upon it lest it go stark raving mad?

How would I spend my days if I were an atheist? I am clueless because I cannot grasp that mindset. Would I spend my limited time posting on CAF? If so, why and to what purpose, when ultimately there is no purpose, and all ends in absolute nothingness?
 
***Ruminations…***I must admit outright that I do not understand atheism, but it seems that there are two kinds of atheists: those who think they are atheists, and those who are atheists.

If atheism is true, then nothing matters, not even the fact that one is an atheist.

Time is short before the atheist ceases to exist. Then there will be no memory of life, no awareness, no thought even of non-existence, no fantasized eternal darkness or endless sleep…in short, all will be as if it never was.

So, why does the atheist pursue anything in life? Do pursuits serve as a necessary and constant distraction from the inevitable, an inevitability so utterly terrifying that the mind dare not gaze directly upon it lest it go stark raving mad?

How would I spend my days if I were an atheist? I am clueless because I cannot grasp that mindset. Would I spend my limited time posting on CAF? If so, why and to what purpose, when ultimately there is no purpose, and all ends in absolute nothingness?
I have asked this many times…“Why are you posting to Catholic Forum?”. One said, “he wanted to enlighten us”…Enlighten, about what?

As far as I can tell - Atheism is a vacuum an absence of Faith.
 
One atheist told me that ‘the fact’ that life is short and that there is nothing after life meant that he prized living above all else and enjoyed each moment of experience as something precious and never to be repeated. He was under the impression that the faithful ‘put off’ living and look forward to the afterlife. This is a position put forward by people who have never really suffered and who discount the suffering of others. Life is to be enjoyed? Who are they kidding? It feels more like a test of endurance to me, but maybe that is just me? 🤷
 
***Ruminations…***I must admit outright that I do not understand atheism, but it seems that there are two kinds of atheists: those who think they are atheists, and those who are atheists.

If atheism is true, then nothing matters, not even the fact that one is an atheist.

Time is short before the atheist ceases to exist. Then there will be no memory of life, no awareness, no thought even of non-existence, no fantasized eternal darkness or endless sleep…in short, all will be as if it never was.

So, why does the atheist pursue anything in life? Do pursuits serve as a necessary and constant distraction from the inevitable, an inevitability so utterly terrifying that the mind dare not gaze directly upon it lest it go stark raving mad?

How would I spend my days if I were an atheist? I am clueless because I cannot grasp that mindset. Would I spend my limited time posting on CAF? If so, why and to what purpose, when ultimately there is no purpose, and all ends in absolute nothingness?
What i don’t understand i why the religious ask questions or make assertions, and when they are answered of corrected they say the EXACT SAME things all over again 🤷

I mean take this “If atheism is true, then nothing matters”. This nonsense has been answered 1000000 times, yet is it still spouted out over and over and over again. 🤷 I was actually going to answer this but whats the point when it will just go in one ear and out the other.

The exact same with “why do you debate against god”, this has also been answered 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times.
 
One atheist told me that ‘the fact’ that life is short and that there is nothing after life meant that he prized living above all else and enjoyed each moment of experience as something precious and never to be repeated. He was under the impression that the faithful ‘put off’ living and look forward to the afterlife. This is a position put forward by people who have never really suffered and who discount the suffering of others. Life is to be enjoyed? Who are they kidding? It feels more like a test of endurance to me, but maybe that is just me? 🤷
I agree, life is a struggle. I also struggle to understand the point of it all (THAT DOES NOT MEAN NOTHING MATTERS, before i get words put in my mouth :D).

I mean i understand why it is that i exist. I am basically just another link in a 4 billion year old chain of self replicating molecules. However it pains me deeply we do not know the answers to other questions right now, like what caused the universe, is there life on other planets etc. For these are things i really want to know before i die, however it does not seem likely they will be answered im my life time. In fact we may never know the origins or our universe.
 
You missed my point.
I was talking about evidence.
My point was this-- the ‘evidence’ you keep asking for is there for you Albert.
And ONLY YOU.
God is not going to ‘prove to the world’ that He is there. He has a VERY good reason for generally avoiding this approach.

What you could not know, is that God looks down and does not see just the swarming crowd of humanity. He see individuals. And He is ready to accept them each , right where they are at, no strings.

He sees, and knows, you. Albert.

When you are ready to invite Him, He will respond to you, Albert. But he is not forcing his hand by trying to persuade you to do what you do not want to do. He does NOT need your love, but He would like to have it, and would certainly like to share His love with you.
He ‘stands at the door and knocks’.
There is no latch on His side of the door.
Only on your’s.
Appeals to emotion do nothing for me.
 
What i don’t understand i why the religious ask questions or make assertions, and when they are answered of corrected they say the EXACT SAME things all over again 🤷

I mean take this “If atheism is true, then nothing matters”. This nonsense has been answered 1000000 times, yet is it still spouted out over and over and over again. 🤷 I was actually going to answer this but whats the point when it will just go in one ear and out the other.

The exact same with “why do you debate against god”, this has also been answered 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times.
There are difficult questions that atheists direct at theists. We do not, or at least should not, pretend to have an answer for everything. There is much more that we don’t know than what we do know. Sometimes this gets translated into “Why don’t you ask (or debate) God, instead?”

The statement “If atheism is true, then nothing matters” is of an entire different nature. In fact, within a few decades after the publication of the Origin of Species you will find Darwinists making that same claim, but in reference to Darwinian evolution.

In the Darwinian view there can be no meaning that provides, among other things, an objective standard of right and wrong. There remains only impulse and instinct, as Darwin noted: “A man who has no assured and ever-present belief in the existence of a personal God, or of a future existence with retribution and reward, can have for his rule of life, as far as I can see, only to follow those impulses and instincts which are the strongest or which seem to him the best ones.”

Julian Huxley said one of the first benefits of evolution is that it liberated the Englishman from sexual mores. Elsewhere he said “I had a motive for not wanting the world to have a meaning…For myself, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation, sexual and political.”

The atheist-materialist view of evolution, i.e. Darwinism, negates the very possibility of meaning and value. Such were among Darwin’s deepest fears about his own theory: “With me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s min, which has been developed from the mind of lower animals, are not of any value or at all trustworthy.” 1881 letter to W. Graham)

Darwin previously asked in the Descent, “Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind if there are any convictions in such a mind?” Darwin answered clearly in the negative. The other side of this coin, that the mind of man differs from the mind of anthropoid apes in degree only, is that one cannot trust the convictions of his own mind since there is nothing fundamentally or radically different in kind about the human mind.

In the Darwinian view of the world, there can be no higher or lower, no righteous and guilty, but only victorious and defeated.

In sum, atheists may object to a characterization of their world-view as being meaningless and devoid of value, yet they are forever at a loss to provide a genuine ground for meaning and value in their materialist world consisting of merely of space, and atoms swirling about the void with no purpose or final causes in nature.

Whence comes meaning and value, which the atheist struggles to assert in stark logical contradiction to his world-view?
 
“Napoleon asked him what place God had in his theory. Laplace replied that he had no need for that hypothesis. We also have no need for it, because science has been successful, and science is the best approach to solving the mysteries that remain.”

To the contrary, is the view of Francisco José Ayala, who said science does not ask or deal with the truly interesting questions.

Reference: Darwin’s Gift: to Science and Religion
 
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