For those who believe homosexuals can change their orientation....

[Kolbe300]

I don’t think people should seek counseling from strangers on the internet in the first place.

In the specific sense, yes, in the same way that many, many aspects of individual human characteristics arise mysteriously. In the general, the Church has always been very clear about the genesis of all imperfection in creation, which is original sin. Plenty of threads about the Fall and original sin on here, no need to rehash all of that, but the point is that the Church does not allow the necessary wiggle room to start using some of the terminology that you use below.

Well, they’re right, but you’re (I think willfully) leaving out the Catholic narrative about “the beginning of the world and how all this stuff went wrong in the first place”. You’re forming a false syllogism:

“I am gay”
“God made me”
“therefore, God made gay and God can’t make evil”
“therefore, gay (the orientation) is not evil”

(You appear to add the addendum “therefore gay is beautiful”, but whatever)

This is a false syllogism, it presumes that all aspects of our human person were directly willed by God. Not so. It would more accurately go:

Feel better? While I enjoy dialogue, I got only as far as the false syllogism before realizing this communication is, once again, not working. I don’t believe God made “gay”. But what’s the point in saying so, right? Anyways, while I do enjoy discussion, your posts seem more of an effort in sarcasm and self righteousness than any actual form of serious dialogue. However, I could be completely misinterpreting your post, which would be par for the course here on CAF.

Long story short - what’s the point?

It has been fun everyone! Enjoy your week!

Peace!

 

[tqualey]

Hi Kolbe300,

It appears to me that you get little out of the forum because you put so little topic advancing material into it. Seriously, while you may think about this or that may be of interest - but, what are you basing anything on - besides your feelings?

Now you are engaging in name-calling with sarcasm and self-righteousness? And, as far as I can tell, complaining about how CAF just doesn’t do it for you is hardly a description of a serious dialogue.

Maybe it is time to make an accurate self-assessment and move forward in the direction you think is best for you - and stop complaining about how badly you are being misunderstood. This may be more of a growth and emotional development issue So see how you can advance the topic or just drop it.

God bless

Feel better? While I enjoy dialogue, I got only as far as the false syllogism before realizing this communication is, once again, not working. I don’t believe God made “gay”. But what’s the point in saying so, right? Anyways, while I do enjoy discussion, your posts seem more of an effort in sarcasm and self righteousness than any actual form of serious dialogue. However, I could be completely misinterpreting your post, which would be par for the course here on CAF.

Long story short - what’s the point?

It has been fun everyone! Enjoy your week!

Peace!

 

[Elizabeth502]

It means that the Franciscans are having a terribly string of decades lately…but I’m surprised that’s news to any Catholic.

I’m actually extremely well acquainted with the Franciscans. Many of them are close personal friends of mine, and I wouldn’t know precisely what you mean by “a terrible string of decades.” My other Catholic friends have also not remarked on any “terrible string of decades.”

If you want to know more, start a thread about it, see how many people you can get banned, but that’s not the topic of this thread.

You brought it up. It’s up to you, instead of being an enigmatic tease about it, to tie in the relevance of the topic of the Franciscan order to the subject of the thread, which you have not yet demonstrated. Please do not throw out a provocative statement, without context or explanation, and expect others to “start new threads” about an unanswered question which you, not they, raised.

 

[Kolbe300]

Hi Kolbe300,

It appears to me that you get little out of the forum because you put so little topic advancing material into it. Seriously, while you may think about this or that may be of interest - but, what are you basing anything on - besides your feelings?

Now you are engaging in name-calling with sarcasm and self-righteousness? And, as far as I can tell, complaining about how CAF just doesn’t do it for you is hardly a description of a serious dialogue.

Maybe it is time to make an accurate self-assessment and move forward in the direction you think is best for you - and stop complaining about how badly you are being misunderstood. This may be more of a growth and emotional development issue So see how you can advance the topic or just drop it.

God bless

Hi Tqualey. Did you read Jaundice’s post to me? It is literally drowning in sarcasm. Why would I further that sort of dialogue? The topic for me IS dropped. I will leave it for all of you to enjoy. I’m sorry that you think I don’t provide enough topic advancing material for you, and I apologize if I have derailed the thread. Best of luck.

Peace.

 

[MrJaundicedEye]

You brought it up. It’s up to you, instead of being an enigmatic tease about it, to tie in the relevance of the topic of the Franciscan order to the subject of the thread, which you have not yet demonstrated. Please do not throw out a provocative statement, without context or explanation, and expect others to “start new threads” about an unanswered question which you, not they, raised.

There are things that cannot be said on CAF, and this topic is one of the things that cannot be said. You can’t talk about who is gay and who is not in the Catholic Church. At least, that’s my understanding of how it works. I could be wrong.

 

[MrJaundicedEye]

Feel better? While I enjoy dialogue, I got only as far as the false syllogism before realizing this communication is, once again, not working. I don’t believe God made “gay”. But what’s the point in saying so, right? Anyways, while I do enjoy discussion, your posts seem more of an effort in sarcasm and self righteousness than any actual form of serious dialogue. However, I could be completely misinterpreting your post, which would be par for the course here on CAF.

I feel the same as I did before. I’m not emotionally invested in your life story. You’re the one who is convinced that all of him is good and is busy embracing your orientation. That’s what I’m diagnosing as the construction of a false syllogism. Disagree if you want, but don’t think that communication isn’t working because you and I disagree on what your problem is. I still think you hold some wrong theological ideas, these ideas are influencing your decisions, and the result is making you unhappy. The syllogism is a shorthand way of pointing out the error I see in what you have written. However, like I said before, you are very imprecise, a moving target as it were. I’m not a bit surprised that no one on here can satisfy you because they can’t hit a constantly shifting target.

What I write on the web is written for silent lurkers, I know that you are not listening, just talking. I want everyone to realize that every adolescent goes through the dark nights that you seem convinced are a unique part of the gay experience.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, MJE,

I think that Elizabeth502’s critical remarks were both timely and accurate. Since you are unable to appropriately tie the Franciscans to this thread, and by verbal ambush are doing damage to their good name, I am requresting that you simply drop any further remarks about the Franciscans.

If you have personal knowledge of immoral activities going on with any religious order, I would recommend to spare us the guess work and report this to the local ordinary for proper resolution.

Thank you

There are things that cannot be said on CAF, and this topic is one of the things that cannot be said. You can’t talk about who is gay and who is not in the Catholic Church. At least, that’s my understanding of how it works.