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followingtheway
Guest
How do you explain celibate gay Catholics?
For those who believe homosexuals can change their orientation....
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cemiller
Guest
I know that NARTH has done a ton of research on this, and they have fairly good success rate with therapy. I would guess that a lot of celibate gay-tendacy Catholics probably haven’t tried NARTH. A lot of negativity is pointed towards them because they are trying to re-orientate homosexuals, which the gay movement and the media can’t stand. A lot of people are also still under the impression that homosexuals are “born that way” even though there has been no substantial evidence for this. The APA actually just changed their statements on homosexuality to remove the biological roots of homosexuality, and are now saying that environmental causes are most likely the cause of a homosexual orientation. You can check out www.narth.com for more info.
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Wowbagger
Guest
I don’t believe homosexuals can generally change their orientation. An alcoholic can stop drinking; he can’t stop wanting to.
Just wanted to get that out there, lest some outsider pops along and thinks Catholicism officially teaches that homosexuality is a choice or something.
Just wanted to get that out there, lest some outsider pops along and thinks Catholicism officially teaches that homosexuality is a choice or something.
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
The Catholic Medical Society on Same-Sex Attractions:
narth.com/docs/hope.html
On the known causes of SSA:
catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0087.html
narth.com/docs/hope.html
On the known causes of SSA:
catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0087.html
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havana1
Guest
And conversely, how do you explain the absence of any testimony from the wives of the supposedly “ex-gay” guys who are now happily married? Where are the wives of these “ex-gay” men? Why haven’t we heard from them?
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The most reasonable and logical conclusion to both questions is, of course, that they were never gay to begin with. **
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Hopemercy
Guest
Not sure what your point is?
Celibacy is celibacy.
Society is obsessed with sex issues; let us not get infected with this disease.
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followingtheway
Guest
These are all great answers! Thanks everyone! 
My point at that time was that if someone is not indulging in homosexual attractions and still why do they still have the attractions?
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Hopemercy
Guest
Ah I see.These are all great answers! Thanks everyone!
My point at that time was that if someone is not indulging in homosexual attractions and still why do they still have the attractions?
And I repeat, does it matter? Any more than hetero sexual attractions matter outside marriage?
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St_Francis
Guest
Just because someone does not indulge their attraction doesn’t mean it goes away. A diabetic can still yearn for chocolate years after they’ve stopped eating candy.These are all great answers! Thanks everyone!
My point at that time was that if someone is not indulging in homosexual attractions and still why do they still have the attractions?
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cemiller
Guest
narth.com/docs/leaving2.html
wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487
pfox.org/videos.html
There are a few testimonies. I’m sure you can find more if you look, but that was just a quick search. How many testimonies would you require to accept it? Or would you simply say that if a man is now straight he was never homosexual? I’m sure the ex-gay men and women would argue with you there…
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followingtheway
Guest
Well I did make a thread about it. So my opinion is obviously yes.
Yes but this question is aimed at people who believe homosexuals can change their orientation, since they believe that when someone stops indulging in homosexuality, they become heterosexual.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I don’t explain them, why should I? what does this have to do with the question in your thread title? why do they need explanation? What business is it of anyone here how a Catholic chooses to live out their faith in the light of Christ’s teaching?
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followingtheway
Guest
What the
? Wow :dts:? You’re misunderstanding. This WAS AIMED AT CATHOLICS WHO BELIEVE gay people can become straights. MY POINT WAS THAT (AND EVERYONE READ THIS) was that if people who stop indulging in homosexuality become heterosexuals, why are there gay celibate Catholics?
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havana1
Guest
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havana1
Guest
Paragraph # 2359 of Catechism of the Catholic Church calls homosexuals to a life of chastity. Therefore, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask where the whole SSA/“ex-gay” thing fits in with the Magisterium.
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followingtheway
Guest
Exactly! :yup:
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Crumpy
Guest
I don’t mean to be facetious in any way. I have a four-year degree in psychology. So, I am interested in this subject on several levels.
Take a look at anybody changing their behavior. Can they do it? can Democrats become Republicans, or vice versa? If a Democrat changes to Republican, does it mean that they were really never a Democrat?
So many people on this website seem to have these kneejerk type reactions to a lot of questions, like this subject.
Without rushing to any judgment about somebody with SSA ridding themselves of it, look at the broader subject of people changing deeply held beliefs and convictions.
This is terribly pertinent, because we not only want people with SSA to change, but we want 1.25 billion Muslims to become Catholic, too. We want terrorists to become pacifists.
We want sinners to become saints. We want racists to become …what? … non-racists.
How does ANYBODY change “fundamental” about themselves? Do you see where I’m heading? If we had a GENERAL model about how people change, then maybe we could develop SPECIFIC models for change, like the examples I just mentioned.
But, I’m not a practicing psychologist. I never had a course in "personality change.
That’s what some posts above are talking about … how people can change … and IF they can change.
Who’s got the general model of personality change? Anybody? speak right up now!
Take a look at anybody changing their behavior. Can they do it? can Democrats become Republicans, or vice versa? If a Democrat changes to Republican, does it mean that they were really never a Democrat?
So many people on this website seem to have these kneejerk type reactions to a lot of questions, like this subject.
Without rushing to any judgment about somebody with SSA ridding themselves of it, look at the broader subject of people changing deeply held beliefs and convictions.
This is terribly pertinent, because we not only want people with SSA to change, but we want 1.25 billion Muslims to become Catholic, too. We want terrorists to become pacifists.
We want sinners to become saints. We want racists to become …what? … non-racists.
How does ANYBODY change “fundamental” about themselves? Do you see where I’m heading? If we had a GENERAL model about how people change, then maybe we could develop SPECIFIC models for change, like the examples I just mentioned.
But, I’m not a practicing psychologist. I never had a course in "personality change.
That’s what some posts above are talking about … how people can change … and IF they can change.
Who’s got the general model of personality change? Anybody? speak right up now!
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puzzleannie
Guest
what does one have to do with the other? there is no reason why one person may decide to remain chaste (they cannot be “gay” if they are chaste since that implies the active participation in the sinful aspects of that lifestyle, but they can certainly remain homosexuals who choose to be chaste). That has no effect whatever on another person who may decide to seek therapy to change the orientation.
where does the proposition “it is possible to change one’s orientation” become “everyone has the obligation to try to change it?”
your statement is illogical
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cemiller
Guest
Like I said that was just a quick search that I did. And if your opinion is that if a person at one time was a gay activist, had same sex relationships, was completely immersed in the “gay lifestyle” as people call it and happen to go to a therapist and have a life altering experience that allows them to start becoming straight, then they were never actually gay. If that is your thought on the matter, then nothing anyone says will do any good, because if that doesn’t qualify as an “ex-gay” then nothing will and we are all just spinning our tires and getting no where. Since to you there is no such thing then testimonies, signed or not, really don’t matter to you. So therefore I would go so far as to say you posted this thread just to start an “debate” that you really didn’t have any plans on participating in. Where is the proof that it doesn’t work? Why hasn’t the APA actually placed some grants up to start their own research? Why doesn’t the government actually sponsor some studies to get the real undeniable truth? At least NARTH is looking at it, while the other side just stews in their own opinions and demeans anyone that thinks differently.
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