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cemiller
Guest
anyone can change anything if they put their heart into it and do the work required. It’s never easy but it can be done.
For those who believe homosexuals can change their orientation....
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anyone can change anything if they put their heart into it and do the work required. It’s never easy but it can be done.
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francisca
Guest
Christianity believe in change of personality and attitutde. We call it repentance. The word “repentance” in greek means “turn around”, in other words it’s a complete change.
I think that psychology shall not rely completely on people’s intepretation of themselves because people’s intepretation of themselves need to be “crossed checked” with their reality in otherwords facts. Supposedly a patient insist that he is the president of the United States, when in fact he is not. Should a therapist affirm him in his delusion? What facts do we have when a person is healthy bodily, meaning he has no hormonal imbalance, no genetic/ chromosome problem, no discrepancy in their sexual organs-- what facts that can affirm that what they think actually support their claim other than their fantasy and intepretation of themselves which is problematic when cross-checked with facts? The assumption that a gay can’t change most of the time contradicts the fact of their reality that their body is healthy and shows no descrepancy in all aspects. Thus a gay sperm will still look for an egg, and a gay egg will still wait for a sperm to fertilize her. Despite this facts, these people insist that they are not interested in the opposite sex. Their insistance and persistance, however, not necessarily prove the accuracy of their claims, because the facts of their sexual reality states otherwise.
In my opinion it is the best practice for a therapist to align a persons attitudes to his reality. Fantasy are not reality. A person can align his fantasy anyhow. Supposedly I am watching a movie titled Extra Terestrial. (ET). I can feel myself “joining” the movie in my mind. Thus I “align” my imagination to the fantasy of the movie. But when the movie is over, a person who is balance in their mental processes, he can comeback to reality, and align himself to his reality again, so that he is in harmony with his reality. But supposedly I am not capable of this process, thus after the movie is over, I stay in alignment with the fantasy of the movie and not with reality. In this situation, I am not in harmony with my reality. If I were to go to a therapist, I surely hope that the therapist can bring me back to my reality. Surely it will be “a war” between my will to comeback to reality (since I do not know what the reality is) and my insistance to stay in my fantasy because I believe that my fantasy is the reality. This is where we need God to tell us which one is the truth.
The bible says that God created us male and female. Our science actually have checked this bible claim quite far: we are male and female from chromosome level to whole body. Our fantasy and imagination may be fluid, our gender, however, is a clear cut.
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kbwall
Guest
It truly is impossible to say if it can be changed, or if it can’t. All that is known is that some supposedly can and some supposedly can’t. But there’s so many variables. BTW, for the rest of my post, I refuse to use the term SSA. I think it’s absolutely ridiculous for many reasons which I’m not going into right now. They’re homosexuals/bisexuals, practicing or not. Don’t like it, not my problem. Anyway, continuing on.
Is it that some people can fight it more easily? Or it could be that every supposed conversion was actually really a bisexual, and therefore not a true homosexual, and thus they actually can pick and choose. Then you have the school of thought that states that we’re all a little bisexual one way or the other, we just all have preferences, and there is no such thing as a tru 100% homosexual or 100% heterosexual. Which is when some straight people get uppity and state that they’d never get with the same sex, but that could be a combination of pride, personal views, and lack of motivation.
In any case, if one is going to fight it, you have to want to fight it, which unfortunately our society is against these days. Gay pride has corrupted our society to the point if a person feels even a little sexual attraction towards the same sex, they should celebrate it, be happy, and pursue it with reckless abandon. Society is starting to turn in favor of the gays, which is sadly unfortunate. I understood when it was just to stop the discrimination, because that was bad, but it’s starting to get to the point where some people will be upset if you so much as hint at homosexuality being a sin. Then you have the stupid people (sorry, no other kind words to use) that try and say the Bible isn’t against gays, and they usually say some vague thing about how the Bible can be interpretted in many different ways. of course, they get evasive if you actually challenge them on that subject and ask for a specific interpretation of the numerous scriptures that pretty clearly state that it is indeed a sin.
Oh, and if you happen to be a homosexual/bisexual and do not like what you are, the gay community absolutely hates you. I guess they feel threatened or something. They also go on about how the homophobic society has poisoned your mind. Society this, society that, blah blah blah. It’s like it’s completely beyond their comprehension that a homosexual might genuinely dislike what they are. Which is a shame, because those people have almost nobody to turn to.
It truly is sad for homosexual Christians who want to change, because they will find almost no allies to help them in their time of need. Mainstream homosexual community will try to encourage their homosexual behavior, and 9 times out of 10, they will discourage anything to do with the church. The Christian community is a mixed bag. It is difficult these days to find moderate people willing to speak out against homosexuals. Unfortunately Westbro Baptist Church has painted such a horrible picture, and they’re definitely not in the mood to help homosexual Christians, willing to change or not. Some of the other Christian groups are a bit more tolerant, but while they may mean well, they usually have no intention of trying to change them. Partly because I believe society has leaked in and implanted the idea that trying to change is a horrible thing, and partly because, like WBC, other church groups that try to turn people straight have done a horrifying job at it.
If change truly is possible, and it’s not just orientations that were hardwired into you since birth, then one would have to want to change. I think it might be possible, after all, it is psychological, and very few psychological factors are unchangeable. It could be similar to right or left handedness. You naturaly grow up with one of the other, but if you really wanted to, and practised hard enough, you could become the opposite handedness that you are. It’s just nobody does that, because nobody really cares which hand you write with anymore. However, like any other psychological thereapy, you have to want to get better. And an attitude of a desire to change is difficult to manifest when you have all kinds of media trying to get you to love that part of yourself and change is bad.
As for the topic at hand, well that’s just a silly question. Some homosexuals wish to be straight. Others wish to be celibate. That’s just how it is. Also, if change is possible, then one would have to accept that change is more difficult for some that for others, which means not everybody can change, which means some will simply have to remain neutral or chaste.
Is it that some people can fight it more easily? Or it could be that every supposed conversion was actually really a bisexual, and therefore not a true homosexual, and thus they actually can pick and choose. Then you have the school of thought that states that we’re all a little bisexual one way or the other, we just all have preferences, and there is no such thing as a tru 100% homosexual or 100% heterosexual. Which is when some straight people get uppity and state that they’d never get with the same sex, but that could be a combination of pride, personal views, and lack of motivation.
In any case, if one is going to fight it, you have to want to fight it, which unfortunately our society is against these days. Gay pride has corrupted our society to the point if a person feels even a little sexual attraction towards the same sex, they should celebrate it, be happy, and pursue it with reckless abandon. Society is starting to turn in favor of the gays, which is sadly unfortunate. I understood when it was just to stop the discrimination, because that was bad, but it’s starting to get to the point where some people will be upset if you so much as hint at homosexuality being a sin. Then you have the stupid people (sorry, no other kind words to use) that try and say the Bible isn’t against gays, and they usually say some vague thing about how the Bible can be interpretted in many different ways. of course, they get evasive if you actually challenge them on that subject and ask for a specific interpretation of the numerous scriptures that pretty clearly state that it is indeed a sin.
Oh, and if you happen to be a homosexual/bisexual and do not like what you are, the gay community absolutely hates you. I guess they feel threatened or something. They also go on about how the homophobic society has poisoned your mind. Society this, society that, blah blah blah. It’s like it’s completely beyond their comprehension that a homosexual might genuinely dislike what they are. Which is a shame, because those people have almost nobody to turn to.
It truly is sad for homosexual Christians who want to change, because they will find almost no allies to help them in their time of need. Mainstream homosexual community will try to encourage their homosexual behavior, and 9 times out of 10, they will discourage anything to do with the church. The Christian community is a mixed bag. It is difficult these days to find moderate people willing to speak out against homosexuals. Unfortunately Westbro Baptist Church has painted such a horrible picture, and they’re definitely not in the mood to help homosexual Christians, willing to change or not. Some of the other Christian groups are a bit more tolerant, but while they may mean well, they usually have no intention of trying to change them. Partly because I believe society has leaked in and implanted the idea that trying to change is a horrible thing, and partly because, like WBC, other church groups that try to turn people straight have done a horrifying job at it.
If change truly is possible, and it’s not just orientations that were hardwired into you since birth, then one would have to want to change. I think it might be possible, after all, it is psychological, and very few psychological factors are unchangeable. It could be similar to right or left handedness. You naturaly grow up with one of the other, but if you really wanted to, and practised hard enough, you could become the opposite handedness that you are. It’s just nobody does that, because nobody really cares which hand you write with anymore. However, like any other psychological thereapy, you have to want to get better. And an attitude of a desire to change is difficult to manifest when you have all kinds of media trying to get you to love that part of yourself and change is bad.
As for the topic at hand, well that’s just a silly question. Some homosexuals wish to be straight. Others wish to be celibate. That’s just how it is. Also, if change is possible, then one would have to accept that change is more difficult for some that for others, which means not everybody can change, which means some will simply have to remain neutral or chaste.
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Debora123
Guest
Probably because it is hard to believe that someone would NOT try to change their orientation and would instead PREFER to remain gay and celibate.
What the OP is trying to say is, obviously, it isn’t that easy, or that possible for some gays to become straight. If this were the case, Faithful Catholics would just become straight rather than trying to live as a gay celibate.
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Debora123
Guest
I honestly don’t understand why some people are having such a hard time with this thread.
The obvious answer is this:
**Is it possible for SOME gays to turn straight after intensive therapy? YES.
Does this mean EVERY gay who undergoes intensive therapy will be successful in becoming straight? NO.
**
It works for some people, but not for others. This is the truth. End of story.
My personal, educated opinion, based on what I’ve seen and heard, is this: the gays who ARE successful in totally going from gay to straight, are a vast minority. Most who try, unfortunately, will never be completely successful in becoming straight - and will require living a celibate lifestyle.
The obvious answer is this:
**Is it possible for SOME gays to turn straight after intensive therapy? YES.
Does this mean EVERY gay who undergoes intensive therapy will be successful in becoming straight? NO.
**
It works for some people, but not for others. This is the truth. End of story.
My personal, educated opinion, based on what I’ve seen and heard, is this: the gays who ARE successful in totally going from gay to straight, are a vast minority. Most who try, unfortunately, will never be completely successful in becoming straight - and will require living a celibate lifestyle.
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cemiller
Guest
Due to the acceptance theories bouncing everywhere I don’t think that many homosexuals actually try it. People blast the therapy without even looking into it first. It will never work for everyone though, nothing does. I do think that it is likely that a lot of homosexuals that would like to seek re-orientation therapy most likely get discouraged by people instantly telling them it won’t work and they shouldn’t even bother. I would be willing to bet that a lot of those that choose to remain celibate have never bothered to seek therapy because of the negative talk that surrounds it due to political and social pressures to affirm “gay pride”
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Debora123
Guest
Well this whole thread is specifically about Faithful Catholics who are gay but don’t want to live the gay life style. I’m not referring to the people who are gay and aren’t resisting it.
There are a lot of faithful Catholics out there who are gay and celibate. So, what I’m trying to say here is, if going from gay to straight were that much of a possibility to anyone who truly tried, I think there would be more faithful Catholics who are ex gay vs faithful Catholics who are gay celibates.
…But this is not the case. Which thus leads us to believe that it’s not that easy and doesn’t work out for everyone who tries.
My point? Exactly what I said above. It works for some people who try, but not for everyone who tries.
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RobbyS
Guest
A different twist on this is as follows: We are attracted to certain persons sexuallly but not to others. Men find some men have personalities and or physical appearance that amounts to a sexual attractiveness. Some Men find some women very unattractive, physically or personally in a sexual way. But if social convention/morality persuade most men to choose a woman, then they will not act not on their urges to mate with other men but will choose even unattractive women before them. The question is what is it about another person that is attractive? Many homosexuals seem to prefer boys to women. But do they prefer boys to girls, assuming both are equal? And in people in general, do we not prefer people like ourselves? Or maybe we are NOT looking for a mirror image of ourselves, but someone who is not like us because they fulfill a need in ourselves to be different? This thing is very confusing to me, as I am sure anyone who bores through what I have just written will guess. But then sex obviously baffled Freud as much as anyone, which is why his views have been rejected.
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havana1
Guest
**Is it possible for SOME (never gay to begin with) to (re-affirm being straight) after intensive therapy? YES.
Does this mean EVERY (truly gay guy) who undergoes intensive therapy will be successful in (becoming “ex-gay”)? NO.**
In light of the Catechism, one would think it would be a relief - and a good thing - that someone was never gay to begin with: *“You mean I was never gay to begin with? Whew-! What a relief! I sure dodged the bullet with that one-! Whew-!” * I honestly don’t understand why some people have such a hard time with the concept of “never gay to begin with.”
I ask again: Where are all the women who married these “ex-gays”? Have any of these wives been on Catholic Answers Live? Have any Catholic Answers staff or producers reached out to them to get their side of the story? Who, exactly, are these “ex-gays” marrying? I think their absence speaks volumes about the SSA/“ex-gay” thing. Not a single book written: no guests on any EWTN shows, no guests on CAL - they just aren’t there. Why not?
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Debora123
Guest
Probably just because there are very very few of them. And I’d also assume that a married man with children wouldn’t want to publicly proclaim the fact that he’s an ex gay.
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
**
Probably the same way you would explain celibate heterosexual Catholics; humans choosing to be chaste for the glory God.
Seriously people our capacity and ability to love is not held down by things like gender; how could it be if we can also love immaterial things? Just because you’re not attracted to someone of the same sex or opposite sex right now does not mean you can never be attracted to them. If this was the case you would not be able to explain heterosexuals that were once gay but are now in straight relationships or vice versa.
Love is in the will not the gender.
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cemiller
Guest
So basically according to your theory, you can’t even call someone gay until they die. Just to make sure they don’t change and become an ex-gay, at which point they were never really gay, no matter how many gay relationships they had…
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havana1
Guest
No, I would never call someone something they’re not, if that’s what you’re asking. I don’t understand the need to label someone who was “never gay to begin with”, for the apparent purpose of trying to prove there’s such a thing as “ex-gay.” It’s like recommending AA meetings for someone who doesn’t have a drinking problem and then acting surprised that they’re clean and sober for 30 days. Um…yeah…obviously, if the person never had a drinking problem, 30 days clean and sober would be a no-brainer. Similarly, someone who was never gay to begin with would have no problem turning “straight.”
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havana1
Guest
Well, given how much of a ‘cottage industry’ the whole SSA/‘ex-gay’ thing has become, one would think writing a book could be very profitable. They could both sign up with Catholic Answers speakers bureau to share their story, and people would be paying hand over fist to hear the wife of an “ex-gay” husband. If there are very few of them? Supply and demand - it would be a wise business venture. I’m just sayin’… they should come out, no pun intended.
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Rkdajr
Guest
Here’s something I don’t understand. (I posted this in another thread but I’ll post it again as I got no answer.) Why is it that we learn to accept our sinful nature (as in, we cannot be perfect like Christ) and learn to carry our crosses with Our Lord’s help, but when we hear of homosexuals changing their orientation through prayer and such, we Catholics readily believe it? Look at these three hypothetical scenarios -
I prayed that I shall not be addicted to drinking ever again.
I’m an ex-alcoholic.
I prayed that I shall not have the urge to masturbate ever again.
I’m an ex-masturbator.
I prayed that I shall not have any such lust over the opposite sex ever again.
I’m an ex-luster.
I prayed that I shall never again be attracted to the same sex.
I’m an ex-gay.
What is the difference between these or other examples? Wouldn’t it be great if we could ask God to not be tempted by anything anymore, huh, I guess only homosexual persons may “grant” a wish, to change their orientation. Not that I completely deny accounts of this happening, but I’m really confused.
I prayed that I shall not be addicted to drinking ever again.
I’m an ex-alcoholic.
I prayed that I shall not have the urge to masturbate ever again.
I’m an ex-masturbator.
I prayed that I shall not have any such lust over the opposite sex ever again.
I’m an ex-luster.
I prayed that I shall never again be attracted to the same sex.
I’m an ex-gay.
What is the difference between these or other examples? Wouldn’t it be great if we could ask God to not be tempted by anything anymore, huh, I guess only homosexual persons may “grant” a wish, to change their orientation. Not that I completely deny accounts of this happening, but I’m really confused.
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Credo_in_Deum
Guest
"And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible."–Matthew 19:26
Any Christian here still think it is impossible for a homosexual to change and fall in love with someone of the opposite sex?
Any Christian here still think it is impossible for a homosexual to change and fall in love with someone of the opposite sex?
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Rkdajr
Guest
So you are saying it’s possible for the examples I stated above to be true or are you not? Let’s all ask God that we never become tempted or sin ever again, how would you answer that.
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cemiller
Guest
So now there’s no such thing as ex-alchololics either?
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divinefaith
Guest
I once saw a Dr Phil episode where a gay man had turned hetro thru God’s help. He then turned around and decided he wants no girlfirend but wants to become a priest. He is one now.
Dont know his name but he had much to say about this topic.
Dont know his name but he had much to say about this topic.
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divinefaith
Guest
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